Are there any empathics here?

[Bettina]

Have you ever thought that you may be very correct in feeling what you are feeling?... a "pure observer" so to say?

Yes. I know what I feel is real...at least to me...and I am an "observer" type. I tend to listen more and speak very little in public.

"Western" medicine' date=' tends to put things such as "anxiety" and "depression" into groups and leave it at that. "That's just the way things are" without any holistic explanation.

 

This is, of course, far from reality with respects to the full spectrum of human emotion and response. It is possible that everyone in this society supresses these very same feelings (on an unconscious level) and find another way into comfort zones. Regardless of what anyone says, this world is incredibly ugly, corrupt, and evil. Control over our personal perception is even a multi-billion dollar business in America (marketing and public relations).

 

I believe that a very fortunate few have the ability to see things for how they truely are without accepting the larger group's beliefs. We are a product of our genetics and environment over time. The only key to growth under strong empathetic circumstance is gaining a greater understanding of the micro and macro environment of our lives, then discovering the path through it. Your purpose will emerge through this adventure. Please don't find a way to supress this gift too much.

 

Do you have any relatives (such as grandparents) in your blood line who were deeply involved in the mind such as psychiatry or relatives deeply involved in caring for others?[/quote']

 

I don't see the world like most people. Everywhere I look I see pain, suffering and evil and I can feel it...big time.

 

I disagree with you though, I don't consider things that make me sick a "gift". I try to supress it as much as I can and I will admit that the pills I'm on are at least helping to keep the sickness away. The doctor doesn't do a thing for me, but his meds seem to.

 

Another thing I thought of is that I wonder about the kids that commit suicide. I wonder if they are really empathics much worse than me. I'm lucky I'm not that way, but I wonder if some are not so lucky.

 

Thanks for the help though...

 

Bettina

[padren]

Yes. I know what I feel is real...at least to me...and I am an "observer" type. I tend to listen more and speak very little in public.

 

 

I don't see the world like most people. Everywhere I look I see pain' date=' suffering and evil and I can feel it...big time.

 

I disagree with you though, I don't consider things that make me sick a "gift". I try to supress it as much as I can and I will admit that the pills I'm on are at least helping to keep the sickness away. The doctor doesn't do a thing for me, but his meds seem to.

 

Another thing I thought of is that I wonder about the kids that commit suicide. I wonder if they are really empathics much worse than me. I'm lucky I'm not that way, but I wonder if some are not so lucky.

 

Thanks for the help though...

 

Bettina[/quote']

 

I can't help but to wonder about something. It sounds almost like pain and suffering are things that resonate when observed. Have you tried to focus on all the brighter stuff that you see in the day? Where ever I look I see young happy couples, friends laughing, little kids with their parents doing the cutest things.... all stuff that makes me feel so lucky to be alive I can't help but to feel great.

I don't mean, ignore the bad, but try to see the good stuff that happens constantly as intently.

It seems to me that almost, you were either hurt directly or vicariously (empathically) enough that you have a burning emotional need to "solve" it. That when someone is being caused pain, you feel its "your fight" very directly, and not something you can walk away from or just accept as is.

 

I guess the part I am noticing, is that you are especially empathic with painful experiences and sadness. They mostly seem (kids and animals) to do with the innocent/helpless who (even if there are others who want to) have no one to protect them. I am not saying you try to find suffering or seek it out at all - just that you feel, perhaps out of duty, explore/explain it.

 

Thats why I am curious about the specifics of your empathic "filter" since you don't describe feeling the more wonderful things people feel all around us.

 

 

It seems to me that there are two issues:

 

1) what is the nature of this empathy?

2) why are some stimuli amplified and others not?

 

It may help to break it down and examine those both seperately.

[Bettina]

I can't help but to wonder about something. It sounds almost like pain and suffering are things that resonate when observed. Have you tried to focus on all the brighter stuff that you see in the day? Where ever I look I see young happy couples' date=' friends laughing, little kids with their parents doing the cutest things.... all stuff that makes me feel so lucky to be alive I can't help but to feel great.

I don't mean, ignore the bad, but try to see the good stuff that happens constantly as intently.

It seems to me that almost, you were either hurt directly or vicariously (empathically) enough that you have a burning emotional need to "solve" it. That when someone is being caused pain, you feel its "your fight" very directly, and not something you can walk away from or just accept as is.

 

I guess the part I am noticing, is that you are especially empathic with painful experiences and sadness. They mostly seem (kids and animals) to do with the innocent/helpless who (even if there are others who want to) have no one to protect them. I am not saying you try to find suffering or seek it out at all - just that you feel, perhaps out of duty, explore/explain it.

 

Thats why I am curious about the specifics of your empathic "filter" since you don't describe feeling the more wonderful things people feel all around us.

 

 

It seems to me that there are two issues:

 

1) what is the nature of this empathy?

2) why are some stimuli amplified and others not?

 

It may help to break it down and examine those both seperately.[/quote']

 

I don't need to be an observer to feel the consequenses. I can also simply read or overhear something to begin the process of a downward spiral which is difficult to stop. Yes....I do enjoy life by being with dad, with my friends at the mall, singing in places, or being at the park where I work in the summer. But these good feelings that others find so natural, I have to work at all the time...every single day.

 

The problems start when I see, read, or hear unpleasant things in any form.....a little kid crying, looking at old people in church, rapes, murders, a dead bird or other suffering animal, war dead, beheadings, oppression, sadness, tears, etc etc.....I can go on and on. Any one of those are amplified more in me than anyone I know personally and I can't walk away as you say. I find it hard to accept bad things that happen. Old people and kids have some very strong ways of telling me a lot by holding eye contact with me. They don't have to say one word.

 

Yes, I was emotionally hurt when I was 10. This is in another thread that I don't want to bring up here but I used to envy kids that had a real family with uncles and aunts and I tend to spend a lot of time with my dad, because when he's gone I'll be alone and I shudder at the thought. He is 66 compared to my 17 and has been my only real fortress.

 

The nature of my empathy? I was born with it. Thats it and all things are amplified just to different degrees. My dad doesn't have it, and my mother surely never had it so I don't know where I get it from. A bird hitting a window and dying is much worse for me to handle than seeing the same bird already dead a few days later.

 

Anyway, I'm still searching for answers and some here have helped me understand but none have cured me. I am lucky, other than a great father who is my best friend, I have good friends who know me well. They have seen me at my worst and have kind of steered me away from some of the things that would set me off.

 

Christmas is coming again.....so I'll be up on that altar each night for a week.....singing those emotional songs....tears streaming down my face...maybe wishing I was born a boy.

 

Bettina

[~Agnostic~]

I haven't been able to find any forums that deal with this without trying to tie it in with reading minds. Let me know please. This is a big problem for me and I need a place to go that have others like me.

 

EDIT...If someone knows of another place' date=' could you please post the link?

 

Thanks

 

Bettina[/quote']Hi Bettina. I have experienced telepathic/empathic abilities myself, and am familiar with how to trigger them in people or shut them down, through natural psysiological disciplines.

 

Just from reading a few of your posts, it stands quite obvious to me that your psyche may have been prematurely rifted open. This is much like when a person is injured in a car accident, and an internal organ may become exposed and left untreated. Except we are talking about an injury to the subconscious psyche.

 

Normally, the awakening of the psyche can be a wonderful thing, but if this happens prematurely or forcedly, uncontrolled psi-ability may leak out. The psyche has been forced to evolve too quickly, and this psyche rift needs to be closed again for a time, both for your safety and the safety of others. Only in a place of safety and preparation should we allow a psyche rift to occur, if at all possible.

 

Please respond, and I can instuct you in drug-free methods to close up this psyche rift. There are natural psysiological methods available which can reduce the need for drug dependencies, although medications may serve their course for a time.

[Bettina]

Hi Bettina. I have experienced telepathic/empathic abilities myself' date=' and am familiar with how to trigger them in people or shut them down, through natural psysiological disciplines.

 

Just from reading a few of your posts, it stands quite obvious to me that your psyche may have been prematurely rifted open. This is much like when a person is injured in a car accident, and an internal organ may become exposed and left untreated. Except we are talking about an injury to the subconscious psyche.

 

Normally, the awakening of the psyche can be a wonderful thing, but if this happens prematurely or forcedly, uncontrolled psi-ability may leak out. The psyche has been forced to evolve too quickly, and this psyche rift needs to be closed again for a time, both for your safety and the safety of others. Only in a place of safety and preparation should we allow a psyche rift to occur, if at all possible.

 

Please respond, and I can instuct you in drug-free methods to close up this psyche rift. There are natural psysiological methods available which can reduce the need for drug dependencies, although medications may serve their course for a time.[/quote']

 

Sorry, I just saw this...

 

First off, this is not a telepathic thread. You can start one if you wish, or find one in another forum. My mind is open, but not that open so I won't be there.

 

If you want to share some empathic experiences and what you did to suppress them, I will gladly listen....but no magic please. I've already been there.

 

Bettina

[~Agnostic~]

Sorry' date=' I just saw this...

 

First off, this is not a telepathic thread.[/quote']That's fine. I understand that. I suggest however that telepathy and empathy are interrelated. Telepathy deals with thoughts whereas empathy deals with emotions.

 

You can start one if you wish, or find one in another forum. My mind is open, but not that open so I won't be there.

I was merely responding to your concerns. It's not something that I normally care to post about. You seemed to be going through a certain amount of suffering if your posts were any indication. I am not certain if this is still the case for you.

 

If you want to share some empathic experiences and what you did to suppress them, I will gladly listen....

You seem a bit skeptical, and I don't wish to force my views. I've regularly engaged in trance through a modification of the eating and sleeping cycles. This opens up trance capacity. Trance is very different from magic however. Trance is merely a physiological capacity inherent within the body. Reverse methods are also available. Does this make any sense?

 

but no magic please. I've already been there.

I'm not one who practices magic, although some may mistakenly label supernatural trance as magic. There are higher spiritual realms and lower mystical realms. I don't practice rituals or incantations. Those things don't really interest me at all.

 

Bettina

[mike90]

Well as far as wether or not someone would want to get rid of their empathy.. in my case yes, a lot of the time. its a major contributing factor in making my life a living hell. Largely because with the empathy comes an increased sensitivity that makes it easy for me to get hurt. Im currently in really bad shape again, and im getting scared that im headed for another serious mental breakdown. Hell i guess I'm pretty much already there. Feel like im falling apart a lot of the time, and i honestly don't know where to go for help.Anyone know any good web sites or anything to deal with depression/suicide? This is not a ploy for attention or anything. I've been suicidal before and already been through several attempts in my life, and i dont wan't to go there again, but sometimes the pain is just unbearable

[mike90]

I've lost about 30 pounds in the last few months as i dont get hungry when im depressed. I am having a hard time sleeping, with a lot of awful dreams. I'm also starting to have panic attacks again, and my overall health seems to be declining a bit, most likely since im not eating. I'm coming to a point where it seems like its more then i can handle on my own. But ive been on antidepressants before, and they made me worse. I don't make a lot of money and don't have any health care, so im kind of screwed as far as seeing a doctor, and a bit jaded towards them anyway. if anyone has any suggestions of practical things i could do to help ease the depression somewhat, please let me know

[Bettina]

Mike90

 

Mike, I can't help you from here. No one can. The fact that you don't have a profile doesn't help me much either. Fact is, that if I was sitting with you I know I could help you easily just by talking with you.

 

Believe me when I say this....I was where you are now. When my mom left me at 10 because she never wanted kids, I blamed god, my dad, satan, but most of all, I blamed me. I couldn't understand what I did wrong. I was good, I said my prayers, and was never any trouble. When I was 12, I was still hearbroken and sometimes I would get depressed enough to wish I was really dead.

 

Read my other threads and you will get the picture. I'm still not happy and would still give anything to have a mother, but I've got a loving dad and a doctor.

 

I don't know if you have a family or what, but you need help. Find your best friend and tell him or her your troubles, but most of all you need to get to a doctor.

 

Bettina

[reverse]

Hi Guys.

 

Hi B.

 

is this thread still going?

 

wow!

 

Oh well, keep up the good work...it all seems to be going very well.

[aguy2]

Mike90,

 

12 steppers find that helping others is a good way to help yourself. Bettina seems to instinctively be using this method of self-therapy with some good effect.

 

aguy2

[Bettina]

Hi Guys.

 

Hi B.

 

is this thread still going?

 

wow!

 

Oh well' date=' keep up the good work...it all seems to be going very well. [/quote']

 

Its still going, I still tear up at least twice a week, The physcopath is still bilking my dad once a week, and were still nowhere. Little kids and old people....I've pinned it down to those two categories. Other than that, I'm coping with it as I always have....

 

Bettina

[BBkeats]

Would you please explain your feelings when you encounter someone that triggers it. Can you feel them?

I want to know as much as I can from other people like you. For example' date=' do you ever get sick? When are the worst times, etc.

 

Bettina[/quote']

Hey Bettina,

I am new at this myself. I never realized what was happening to me; I thought I was going crazy! I've been to the doctor so many times with different ailments just to find out I was perfectly well. Now I know why. I stay at home as much as I possibly can because I don't like to go out in crowds etc. Definitely don't like elevators. Recently I've learned some stuff about grounding and shielding that I'm trying - - but if you know of a faster way to block the feelings please let me know. . . BBkeats

[BBkeats]

it may sound like i am treating it lightly (because we are probably extremely different in POV) but i am not treating it lightly

 

here's my answer. I stopped watching TV (especially news) 20 years ago

and I wont listen to commercial pop music.

 

commerical pop debases our empathic responses and exploits them to make a buck

 

classic stuff like the soprano arias in the moz cminor do evoke' date=' but they enoble and focus and resolve the feelings

(instead of debasing and dispersing and ultimately deadening, just to make a buck)

 

we live in a commerce driven culture where kids are influenced by whatever sells the most, you have to make allowances and adjust for that

 

you have to be selective about what you expose your empathy to, if you have enough empathy for it to be a problem.

 

WELL that is just my reaction. but your idea of a support group sounds reasonable enough.

 

I wouldnt joint such a group because I have a kind of "church" of my own making that focuses and resolves my feelings. I read poems I love, I sing SATB with other people, I think about cosmology, I understand the value of serenity, I take walks in hilly open spaces. I even watch birds, although I tend to think it is silly and that conventional birdwatchers overdo it.

And I dont watch television. and I try to tune out what America is becoming. So I hardly ever feel sick!

 

So I dont need any kind of support group like that. But I can still tell that it could be a sensible idea.

 

however, why dont you describe, for the rest of us, what extreme problematical empathic experiences are like. Like to people in your class at school trigger them, because they are so miserable?

 

Or does media stuff? like the horrors constantly happening? or what starts it?[/quote']

Wow, this was posted such a long time ago, I wonder if it's too late to respond? --BBkeats

[Bettina]

Hey Bettina' date='

I am new at this myself. I never realized what was happening to me; I thought I was going crazy! I've been to the doctor so many times with different ailments just to find out I was perfectly well. Now I know why. I stay at home as much as I possibly can because I don't like to go out in crowds etc. Definitely don't like elevators. Recently I've learned some stuff about grounding and shielding that I'm trying - - but if you know of a faster way to block the feelings please let me know. . . BBkeats[/quote']

 

No, its not too late to talk, and though some of the advice here has helped me, its only in a minimal way. What I can tell you is that aluminum foil wrapped around your head, metal balls surrounding your bed, touching metal with both hands when it hits you, wristbands, and magnetic beads, have not helped me, and don't work, so you can skip that as part of your

shielding. (all tried when I was 12) I still see a physco once a week to please my dad, but he hasn't been able to help me either. He feels I am just overly sensitive, highly emotional, and have a nervous stomach. I take medication every day which does tend to keep my stomach calm.

 

Every site I have gone to on the web, is bogus because in a few posts, they talk about telepathic powers, moving objects and you name it so I bail out of those places....which unfortunately is all of them. I have divided my problem into two parts. The first is what the physco...and I... believe about depression being triggered by seeing bad events that I am unable to deal with. Events like child rapes, murders, beheadings, etc. That part can last for weeks depending on how much I attach myself to that event. If I lose control, I can become the victim in the event in a matter of seconds and I can feel the trauma as if it was happening to me. Those pills he gives me has helped me from throwing up at least.

 

The second part is the part that scares me rather than making me sick, and which my physco dismisses as a vivid imagination. (I don't talk about this to him anymore.) Its what I feel when I make eye contact with an older person or troubled child who shows signs of despair. Those two groups of people give me the most response and when I make prolonged eye contact with them I can feel what they feel as if I am inside them. I almost know what their trying to say without them saying a word. Its happened in church and the senior home that I go to. It isn't just people either, its animals too. Read about the bee in this thread.

 

So, does this sound like you? If it does, we can talk more about it in private. One thing I do know.... I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy if I had one.

 

Bettina

[Specusci]

I'm apathetic. Does that count?

[mike90]

Well see this ones a ghost town now. If you see this i was kinda wonderin how your doing bettina. I myself am lots better and hope your doing well also. I think I'm finally on the road to making peace with myself and being like this. Although i have experienced some strange things lately and was wondering if you had had anything odd happen to you lately? I would describe what i saw in here but im quite tired of being called a nut lol, or at least having it implied. I'd pm you, but to be honest im not quite sure how to lol.

[sabbath]

Little kids and old people....I've pinned it down to those two categories. Other than that' date=' I'm coping with it as I always have....

 

Bettina[/quote']

 

I wonder, is it because these people tend to be the most vulnerable? And children have such raw emotion, they're not like adults who know how to hide what they feel, or are numbed to a certain degree.

 

I'm not as much an empath as you. At least, I've not experienced such "insights" into other people's emotions as much as you have.

 

I think I've become a bit numb anyways. But I used to, and continue to experience (though rarely) these sudden and weird sort of connection towards other people.

 

One moment I'm laughing at something, then somebody in the room is sad, and I kind of feel that sadness too. It feels like something heavy suddenly bearing down on you. I generally get to hide these sudden "emotional fluctuations" as I call it.

 

But they don't really go away. They stay with me, and sometimes I remember them. What's weird is that there is no visual memory attached to them, like you have. Most of the time, it's just the emotion that is there, and I suddenly get consumed. I end up crying myself to sleep and feeling pain.

 

I hate being a victim to whatever this condition is and at instances when I feel very vulnerable I avoid people. One other thing I've developed out of it is unjustifiable anger. It's sort of a defense mechanism. When I feel other's pain I just flare up with anger. I don't know, maybe, it's some form of defense. It generally keeps people away, so I guess it works...though I'm afraid it nearly ruined my relationships with my friends.

 

It was worse when I was younger. Now, I'm sort of numb, and I stay away from situations I know will trigger my empathy. I'm not sure what I have really. They have not been often enough anymore. I've not seen any patterns yet. Maybe I'm just biologically inclined to depression. I don't really know. But it's hard, especially when you can't explain it to other people.

 

Once, I thought it was better to be without friends. You see, it hurts more to have friends who aren't capable of understanding. But it's not their fault. Besides, it's better to have happy memories than to have none at all.

[mike90]

Well as far as I've seen so far no two peoples empathy is really the same. Bettina's is pretty different then mine. I have several empathicx friends and we are all very different. I too have gone through the numbness and its most likely some sort of self defense mechanism although i think it just delays dealing with it, learning to handle it. I also lost most of my friends when i was going through this. After a while you learn to suppress it around most people , as they won't understand it. Work on the anger thing. I have the same problem but over the years im gradually getting better at keeping calm. If you need to talk to smeone who understands feel free to post to here or pm me if you like. I know what its like to feel alone with this.

[WillTheNewf]

From what ive read in this thread, i personally don't think your helping yourself by discussing your "problem." It sounds to me like your amplifying it. It also sounds like your life hasn't been exposed to much emotion. Your mom sounds like someone with little emotion. Your dad is male and thus spends more time thinking/eating food then thinking at all. Your friends may not be very emotional either. But alot of people are, and can be, very emotional beings. I know that my family is extremly emotional. Emotion is a well-liked trait, and i see no reason to block out what feelings you do have. Someone said that you being a female in your teenage is the sole cause of your problem. I tend to agree, however i think theres more to it then that, but going through adolescent IS increasing your emotional awareness.

 

What you need is distractions. Spending all day browsing/talking about your "problem" over the internet is not helping, at all. Neither is seeing a shrink or taking pills. I propose that to increase your well-being a good diet and strong excersise is key. Drink lots of water, eat lots of peanut butter (ie-good foods) and get involved more with sports. I play(ed) racquetball for five years now and the #1 rule to remember in the sport is "Don't beat yourself." I think this is what your doing and down the road your going to get worse if you keep thinking your mentally sick. You aren't mentally sick so stop stringing yourself over it.

[Bettina]

Mike90, you can always PM me by clicking on my photo and selecting "send a private message to bettina". Although very few here have implied I'm a nut case, I still rather come here and be called a "nut" than go to a physco/psychic place and be accepted. Those places always lead you down the mystic path and thats not for me.

 

A few months ago I told my dad I wanted to stop seeing the doctor because he does nothing for me. In short, the doctor told me that I needed to stay. Why? because some people like me kill themselves. Geez, I've been down the dark path many times and sick over the sink many times but never did I ever think that. My dad has a lot of money and I think he just wants it. Although, I will admit, his medication does help me from getting sick. I will give him that.

 

Sabbath......The sensitivity, feelings and vibes are still there and I forgot to mention animals. I get it from them too. The anger you get is something I have yet to experience. I get angry when reading about pedophiles but its more a normal reaction that everyone gets and I haven't attached that to any of my triggers. As far as friends are concerned, I love mine. They know me very well and are always willing to talk with me and I need that. My dad is my best friend.

 

WillTheNewf.... I don't think being female is the lone marker and having no mother led one doctor to claim that was my problem. Out of the three doctors I've been with not one believes what I'm telling them. Anyway, I do jog, eat chocolate, eat good meals, try not to view bad things, and do admit that my doctor doesn't want me to discuss any of this here which is something I have yet to obey.

 

I know I'm stuck with this, I can't suppress it fully, and I know it will be with me the rest of my life. So.... if a mental case knows she's a mental case, is she a mental case? Being inside that bee still haunts me today.

 

Bettina

[gib65]

Hi Bee,

 

I just read through all 15 pages of this thread. WOW!!! It sounds like your making progress, even if it is little by little. Fifteen pages is a lot to comment on, and I do have a lot of things I'd like to say.

 

I'm not an empath, but I always like to try to help those who express a need for it. Would it be all right if I joined the conversation?

[Bettina]

Hi Bee' date='

 

I just read through all 15 pages of this thread. WOW!!! It sounds like your making progress, even if it is little by little. Fifteen pages is a lot to comment on, and I do have a lot of things I'd like to say.

 

I'm not an empath, but I always like to try to help those who express a need for it. Would it be all right if I joined the conversation?[/quote']

 

Of course you can. Little is an understatement. When I feel the beginning of an episode, I quickly look around not focusing on anything, scratch my arm as if I had an insect bite, and talk out loud about anything. I just can't allow myself to stare at anything.

 

Bee

[gib65]

That's great! You know, if this technique ends up working really well for you, you might want to try it without the drugs. Are you still on the drugs? Even if it doesn't work as well off the drugs, you can always go back on them. The important thing is that you're gaining control over it rather than it controlling you. If you do end up gaining really good control over it, you might want to re-consider whether it's a curse or a gift. It's just a thought, but I mean, when anyone gains control over a what was once a debilitating psychological disposition, it becomes more like a tool that can potentially be used in positive ways. If we really hold out our hopes along these lines, I think you'd make an excellent psychotherapist - show that current guy you're seeing how the job is really done.

 

That's another thing I want to ask you about: are you still seeing that quack? I've got a degree in psychology, and when I took Clinical Psychology 421 where we learnt what makes a good therapist and what doesn't, we learnt that all the "don'ts" are exactly what you described your doctor doing (ex. looking at his watch). So you've got one bad egg. It doesn't mean the whole carton is bad. I support your decision to leave this guy, but I would recommend finding a better doctor to replace him - preferably a female one. Do you think your dad would be against this idea? Hell, it's his money, right? He might as well put it where it's most effective.

 

Even if you don't find a better one, I think you might be getting your best counciling from forums like this. This is just my own biased opinion, but I sometimes think the best therapy comes from regular folks who just want to reach out to help without charging $100 for an hour of their time. For example, the techniques you described (looking around, scratching your arms, talking aloud) sound very much like the techniques Sorcerer was describing way back in early '05 - you know, the pigeonhole guy. He had this technique where he would train his mind to detect which elements in the environment effected him and which didn't, and then focused on the ones that effected him in a good way. The way you draw your attention away from any stimulus reminds me of this. There's also the exercising you did last summer. Wasn't this a recommendation from someone else? These seem to be the things that are really helping you - advice (or at least influence) from regular people.

 

Another thing I wanted to ask: You mentioned a few times in this thread that you're still looking for people who are going through the same thing you are. But it seems like quite a few people stepped forward. Mike comes foremost to mind, and then there's IFeelYa, Thomas Kirby, Lojong among many others. They may not all be empaths to the same degree as you, and they may not have the same symptoms, but do they need to be exactly the same as you. It's true that whenever it comes to a support group, or any kind of group, there should be some common factor that glues them all together, but there should also be a healthy degree of variety as well. But I don't know - it's been a while since you mentioned this. Maybe since then, you and these people have evolved into a cohesive support group.

 

Speaking of which, how's Mike doing? His posts in early January sounded pretty bad, but then his last one (June 8th) sounded more hopeful. How you doing Mike?

 

I also wanted to understand your experiences a bit better. I know you've described them time and time again, but I still would like to ask: what exactly is the experience of "becoming someone else" like? You used the word "vivid" and I'm not sure how this is to be taken. I imagine this ranging from a really intense day dream to a full blown hallucination. Take my bottle of water that's beside me, for example. When I look at it, I say that I perceive it "vividly" in front of me - like I could do nothing to convince myself that it's not there. So when you "become" the other person, do you mean this in the sense that the world, from your POV, literally dissappear in front of you and the other person's world suddenly appears as vividly as my water bottle? Or is it more like a really powerful sense of what it must be like to be the other person?

 

Another question: how do the people you "connect" with react? Do they have any clue that you're experiencing their emotions? Do they react at all?

 

Lastly, how are you handling the issue of being labeled "crazy"? It almost seemed like, for a while at least, this was a bigger problem than the episodes themselves. This is perfectly understandable. For what it's worth, I don't think you're crazy. There is a thick line between those who are "out of touch" with reality all together, and those who know what's real and what isn't but still have a debilitating problem of a different nature, one that they have no control over. I'd like to offer my own perspective on the word "crazy" - actually, on words like "insane", "disorder", "mental illness", etc. ("crazy" is too slang). These are medical terms, and they should only be used in a medical context. That is, a context in which there is a need to distinguish between "sick" and "healthy" AND ONLY FOR THE PURPOSES OF HELPING THE PATIENT HEAL. It is a grave mistake to use the word in every day contexts, such as saying of a peer that he/she is "crazy" - in this context, it carries way too much prejudice and ill founded judgement. It becomes a label that says to others "judge me" or "make fun of me" or "reject me". This is why, in the medical field, it is okay - because doctors and other medics don't judge or reject on this basis (they're not supposed to anyway).

 

This is not to say one should hide the fact that they may have been diagnosed with some disorder or another in public places. It's just that, in public places like school, work, and home, it's completely the wrong perspective and doesn't make sense. Put it this way: medics have to use the concepts of "disorder", "illness", "insane" because they have to work with a model of the human organism as something that's "supposed" to work in a certain way, and if it deviates from that way, it has to be thought of as "broken" or "in need of fixing". This is important because, well, that's their job - to fix people - and the patients desperately need it. But human beings are also animals - they are also spiritual beings. Putting religion asside, we can say that nature does not build animals like us, or any animal or plant or organism for that matter, according to a "design" - that is, we aren't like computers or vehicles whereby we have to work the "right" way or be built according to the "proper" specs. See, a computer or a car, if it is not built the right way or breaks down or doesn't work properly, needs "fixing". Not so for humans and other animals - especially when it comes to psychological dispositions. There's no "right" way for us to work such that if we deviate from this, we would be "broken". In fact, if you're familiar with the theory of evolution, you'll know that nature produces variety. The more members there are of a certain species, the greater the amount of variety therein, and the more likely you'll find unique or "special" individuals. This is a good thing - at least, insofar as evolution is concerned. Variety is what makes evolution work.

 

I like it when I encounter unique people with unique dispositions - especially intellegent ones like yourself. Their lives are so much more fascinating, and that makes my life so much less boring. So thanks for this.

 

Well, sorry for the long post, but I told you 15 pages is a lot to repond to .

[Bettina]

That's great! You know' date=' if this technique ends up working really well for you, you might want to try it without the drugs. Are you still on the drugs? Even if it doesn't work as well off the drugs, you can always go back on them. The important thing is that you're gaining control over it rather than it controlling you. If you do end up gaining really good control over it, you might want to re-consider whether it's a curse or a gift. It's just a thought, but I mean, when anyone gains control over a what was once a debilitating psychological disposition, it becomes more like a tool that can potentially be used in positive ways. If we really hold out our hopes along these lines, I think you'd make an excellent psychotherapist - show that current guy you're seeing how the job is [i']really[/i] done.

 

That's another thing I want to ask you about: are you still seeing that quack? I've got a degree in psychology, and when I took Clinical Psychology 421 where we learnt what makes a good therapist and what doesn't, we learnt that all the "don'ts" are exactly what you described your doctor doing (ex. looking at his watch). So you've got one bad egg. It doesn't mean the whole carton is bad. I support your decision to leave this guy, but I would recommend finding a better doctor to replace him - preferably a female one. Do you think your dad would be against this idea? Hell, it's his money, right? He might as well put it where it's most effective.

 

Even if you don't find a better one, I think you might be getting your best counciling from forums like this. This is just my own biased opinion, but I sometimes think the best therapy comes from regular folks who just want to reach out to help without charging $100 for an hour of their time. For example, the techniques you described (looking around, scratching your arms, talking aloud) sound very much like the techniques Sorcerer was describing way back in early '05 - you know, the pigeonhole guy. He had this technique where he would train his mind to detect which elements in the environment effected him and which didn't, and then focused on the ones that effected him in a good way. The way you draw your attention away from any stimulus reminds me of this. There's also the exercising you did last summer. Wasn't this a recommendation from someone else? These seem to be the things that are really helping you - advice (or at least influence) from regular people.

 

Another thing I wanted to ask: You mentioned a few times in this thread that you're still looking for people who are going through the same thing you are. But it seems like quite a few people stepped forward. Mike comes foremost to mind, and then there's IFeelYa, Thomas Kirby, Lojong among many others. They may not all be empaths to the same degree as you, and they may not have the same symptoms, but do they need to be exactly the same as you. It's true that whenever it comes to a support group, or any kind of group, there should be some common factor that glues them all together, but there should also be a healthy degree of variety as well. But I don't know - it's been a while since you mentioned this. Maybe since then, you and these people have evolved into a cohesive support group.

 

Speaking of which, how's Mike doing? His posts in early January sounded pretty bad, but then his last one (June 8th) sounded more hopeful. How you doing Mike?

 

I also wanted to understand your experiences a bit better. I know you've described them time and time again, but I still would like to ask: what exactly is the experience of "becoming someone else" like? You used the word "vivid" and I'm not sure how this is to be taken. I imagine this ranging from a really intense day dream to a full blown hallucination. Take my bottle of water that's beside me, for example. When I look at it, I say that I perceive it "vividly" in front of me - like I could do nothing to convince myself that it's not there. So when you "become" the other person, do you mean this in the sense that the world, from your POV, literally dissappear in front of you and the other person's world suddenly appears as vividly as my water bottle? Or is it more like a really powerful sense of what it must be like to be the other person?

 

Another question: how do the people you "connect" with react? Do they have any clue that you're experiencing their emotions? Do they react at all?

 

First, I consider this a curse and yes I'm still on the drugs. This doctor is the third one in the series of physco docs. The first was a women who was a friend of my dads and she had another doctor sit in with us on some of the sessions. After a full physical exam, word testing, talking, etc, etc, They put me on an anti depressent and stomach tranquilizer. Then, both of them sent me to the one I'm with now who took me off of that and put me on a different kind. He told me with his pointy finger not to stop taking it and I haven't. He even told my dad to make sure I don't go off of them. I am in no means suicidal unless Islam becomes the top religion. I think he just said that to get more money from dad.

 

The reaction I get is a really powerful sense of what it must be like to be the other person, animal, or insect. Its almost trance like. That "bee" episode was the most intense because I was much younger, scared, and felt myself inside that bee. I felt, as the bee felt, confused, frightened, hot, and dying and I could even see me from the bees view. But most of all I could see the walls of glass on both sides of me right down to the scratches that looked like large grooves. When that trance broke, nothing stopped me from saving that bee and I felt an enormous relief when I did.

 

Lastly, how are you handling the issue of being labeled "crazy"? It almost seemed like, for a while at least, this was a bigger problem than the episodes themselves. This is perfectly understandable. For what it's worth, I don't think you're crazy. There is a thick line between those who are "out of touch" with reality all together, and those who know what's real and what isn't but still have a debilitating problem of a different nature, one that they have no control over. I'd like to offer my own perspective on the word "crazy" - actually, on words like "insane", "disorder", "mental illness", etc. ("crazy" is too slang). These are medical terms, and they should only be used in a medical context. That is, a context in which there is a need to distinguish between "sick" and "healthy" AND ONLY FOR THE PURPOSES OF HELPING THE PATIENT HEAL. It is a grave mistake to use the word in every day contexts, such as saying of a peer that he/she is "crazy" - in this context, it carries way too much prejudice and ill founded judgement. It becomes a label that says to others "judge me" or "make fun of me" or "reject me". This is why, in the medical field, it is okay - because doctors and other medics don't judge or reject on this basis (they're not supposed to anyway).

 

This is not to say one should hide the fact that they may have been diagnosed with some disorder or another in public places. It's just that, in public places like school, work, and home, it's completely the wrong perspective and doesn't make sense. Put it this way: medics have to use the concepts of "disorder", "illness", "insane" because they have to work with a model of the human organism as something that's "supposed" to work in a certain way, and if it deviates from that way, it has to be thought of as "broken" or "in need of fixing". This is important because, well, that's their job - to fix people - and the patients desperately need it. But human beings are also animals - they are also spiritual beings. Putting religion asside, we can say that nature does not build animals like us, or any animal or plant or organism for that matter, according to a "design" - that is, we aren't like computers or vehicles whereby we have to work the "right" way or be built according to the "proper" specs. See, a computer or a car, if it is not built the right way or breaks down or doesn't work properly, needs "fixing". Not so for humans and other animals - especially when it comes to psychological dispositions. There's no "right" way for us to work such that if we deviate from this, we would be "broken". In fact, if you're familiar with the theory of evolution, you'll know that nature produces variety. The more members there are of a certain species, the greater the amount of variety therein, and the more likely you'll find unique or "special" individuals. This is a good thing - at least, insofar as evolution is concerned. Variety is what makes evolution work.

 

I like it when I encounter unique people with unique dispositions - especially intellegent ones like yourself. Their lives are so much more fascinating, and that makes my life so much less boring. So thanks for this.

 

Well, sorry for the long post, but I told you 15 pages is a lot to repond to .

 

I have been to "empath" web sites but left quickly when it turned magical and haven't gotten any help from my teen sites I belong to. SFN is of no help either (sorry) but at least they don't talk "magic" which I like. My friends are the best, know me well, don't consider me crazy and always call to see how I am doing.

 

Physco doc doesn't look at his watch anymore because I mentioned that it was a waste of time since the red light on his phone lights up from his secretary that my session time is over. He apologized and removes his watch when I'm there. I know he doesn't understand me but if he could only see what I see...

 

Bee