HWW Posted May 12, 2015 Author Posted May 12, 2015 I mean, I might be missing something, please explain, but how is it perpetual motion if you have to keep moving the thing across with a pair of tweasers each time it pops up... lol. Sorry, I must be stupid as I am missing the point obviously but it does seem a bit ridiculous to me. Oh - I have a degree in Chemical Physics. It won't work. you said "Sorry, I must be stupid" ok, I agree with this, and I repeat, ask a Physicist, if you want to become smarter !!! -7
DrP Posted May 12, 2015 Posted May 12, 2015 If you were to alter the surface tension of the liquid cyclically using a surfactant, you could make it go up and down, but you would eventually have to clean the system out when it got too concentrated. How is it supposed to work again? Without interacting with it I mean?
HWW Posted May 12, 2015 Author Posted May 12, 2015 i think, i did not exactly understand what you are saying, but if you take a capillary tube, you can degrade the tension of water inside the capillary tube, without an allowance from tensides ! so you have a perpetual motion, as declaired
DrP Posted May 12, 2015 Posted May 12, 2015 My best answer that I can give to your question "Why is this not a perpetual motion?" would be that it is because that the system doesn't run without the need to reset it each time. You either have to move the tube or the bar to get the motion/lift - which requires more energy than you will get from the movement. That's before you even try to harness the energy from the movement to convert it to something useful. To do that you would need to attach it to something like a dynamo or whatever you want to drive - which I can't see working. That's what I reckon anyway, I could be wrong, but I don't think so. Please explain if you think otherwise or if you think I have got this wrong.
HWW Posted May 12, 2015 Author Posted May 12, 2015 (edited) sorry but this "machine was presented several times, and the most very seriosness news papers and german scientific journals confirmed in penalty of perjury, as can be seen here http://www.hwcv.net/ev-r-z/ and here http://www.hwcv.net/ev-sz/ and here all together http://www.hwcv.net/%C3%BCber-uns/medien/ and you dont need a dynamo, but only a mechanic, but there is no difference according to the energy balance, wether physical work is done by a mechanic, or by manual work Edited May 12, 2015 by HWW
Sensei Posted May 12, 2015 Posted May 12, 2015 (edited) sorry but this "machine was presented several times, There is no machine AFAICS, there is you who is moving metal looking thing back and forth, on these videos. Machine would work by itself, after pressing button.. Video was published in May 2013. 2 years is plentiful of time for building real device, real machine, if it would work.. Edited May 12, 2015 by Sensei 2
DrP Posted May 12, 2015 Posted May 12, 2015 error, see here the energy balance http://www.hwcv.net/energiebilanz-details/, especially http://www.hwcv.net/s/cc_images/cache_2441362811.gif?t=1390652762 and http://www.hwcv.net/s/cc_images/cache_2441398170.gif?t=1390826553 the red arrows mean : no energy is needed to do this ! This is the bit that is wrong. The movement of the weights by the red arrows cannot possibly take place with no energy needed. You have to physically move them somehow. sorry but this "machine was presented several times, and the most very seriosness news papers and german scientific journals Yea, but it clearly doesn't work as pointed out above. There are loads of claims about such machines which 'pop up' all the time - I've not seen any that work yet. ;-) 2
HWW Posted May 12, 2015 Author Posted May 12, 2015 (edited) i dont wanna force you to surrender, but this says the machine is working, http://www.merkur.de/lokales/ebersberg/landkreis/philosophische-perpetuum-mobile-731538.html and here some more http://www.hwcv.net/%C3%BCber-uns/medien/ and a horizontally movement of matter means no physically work, and now, please bother me no more, until all of the criticals in this thread ask a real physicist, and I pay everybody 1. 000.000 $, if you find one real physicist, which is disputing this Edited May 12, 2015 by HWW -4
StringJunky Posted May 12, 2015 Posted May 12, 2015 This is the bit that is wrong. The movement of the weights by the red arrows cannot possibly take place with no energy needed. You have to physically move them somehow. Yea, but it clearly doesn't work as pointed out above. There are loads of claims about such machines which 'pop up' all the time - I've not seen any that work yet. ;-) In fact, the patent people won't accept any proposal for a PMM unless you can produce a fully working model. 1
HWW Posted May 12, 2015 Author Posted May 12, 2015 (edited) In fact, the patent people won't accept any proposal for a PMM unless you can produce a fully working model. thats wrong, in germany, real models are forbidden when you want to get a patent granting, but dont care, there are ways to get one ! is it different in usa ? Edited May 12, 2015 by HWW
Sensei Posted May 12, 2015 Posted May 12, 2015 (edited) and a horizontally movment of matter means no physically work, Where did you get such silly idea? When car is moving it's not doing work? When you're going, it's horizontal movement (unless you jump, or use stairs). Are not you tired after walking 10 km, 20 km, 50 km.. ? If you're tired, you spend energy, burned fat and/or sugar. ps. More precisely when v=const, it's not doing work. When v=0 m/s, then v=1m/s, then again v=0m/s, then there was work. Energy spend on acceleration. Edited May 12, 2015 by Sensei
DrP Posted May 12, 2015 Posted May 12, 2015 i dont wanna force you to surrender, but this says the machine is working, http://www.merkur.de/lokales/ebersberg/landkreis/philosophische-perpetuum-mobile-731538.html and here some more http://www.hwcv.net/%C3%BCber-uns/medien/ and a horizontally movment of matter means no physically work, and now, please bother me no more, until all of the criticals herin ask a real physicist, and I pay everybody 1. 000.000 $, if you find one real physicist, which is disputing this Hmm... your thread title is a question: "Why is this not a perpetual motion machine?" Several people have given an opinion as to why they think it it is not. Now though you are supporting it as an idea and defending it. I am a physicist. So are others here. It is not impossible that we are all wrong about it, but in our opinion, so far, it doesn't work and we have said why. I would be delighted if you are right and it works. Free energy for all! Awesome. Congrats. But so far it just doesn't look at all viable. Please show it to work if you really believe it. Answer how the movement depicted by the red arrows in your diagram take up no or less energy than you are getting out.
StringJunky Posted May 12, 2015 Posted May 12, 2015 The pursuit of perpetual motion is equivalent to dreaming about an everlasting tin of beer.
HWW Posted May 12, 2015 Author Posted May 12, 2015 Where did you get such silly idea? When car is moving it's not doing work? When you're going, it's horizontal movement (unless you jump, or use stairs). Are not you tired after walking 10 km, 20 km, 50 km.. ? If you're tired, you spend energy, burned fat and/or sugar. ps. More precisely when v=const, it's not doing work. When v=0 m/s, then v=1m/s, then again v=0m/s, then there was work. Energy spend on acceleration. i think, you are right, but all physicists in this world will declaire you, that you are wrong. I am sure, you dont believe me, but try going over study, so ask only one physicist, and you will see .... Hmm... your thread title is a question: "Why is this not a perpetual motion machine?" Several people have given an opinion as to why they think it it is not. Now though you are supporting it as an idea and defending it. I am a physicist. So are others here. It is not impossible that we are all wrong about it, but in our opinion, so far, it doesn't work and we have said why. I would be delighted if you are right and it works. Free energy for all! Awesome. Congrats. But so far it just doesn't look at all viable. Please show it to work if you really believe it. Answer how the movement depicted by the red arrows in your diagram take up no or less energy than you are getting out. How do you feel in a flat earth, because not the most can be wrong
Delta1212 Posted May 12, 2015 Posted May 12, 2015 i think, you are right, but all physicists in this world will declaire you, that you are wrong. I am sure, you dont believe me, but try going over study, so ask only one physicist, and you will see .... How do you feel in a flat earth, because not the most can be wrong I find it a little funny that you have told actual physicists to find a single physicist that agrees with them, but maybe that is just me. 2
StringJunky Posted May 12, 2015 Posted May 12, 2015 How do you feel in a flat earth, because not the most can be wrong OK Galileo. 1
DrP Posted May 12, 2015 Posted May 12, 2015 The pursuit of perpetual motion is equivalent to dreaming about an everlasting tin of beer. Even though I don't really drink that much anymore I had to pause and think...."MMMM... BEER!"... I even pictured a little thought bubble above my head in a cartoon world where I was all yellow with blue trousers and a beer hat with 2 straws attached to an everlasting beer tin..... The sky was blue, I was smiling and the sun was shining! 8-) 1
HWW Posted May 12, 2015 Author Posted May 12, 2015 (edited) @ delta so, you realy claim, moving matter in horizontal direction, means physical work. so are you ready to undersign this with your real name ? Edited May 12, 2015 by HWW
J.C.MacSwell Posted May 12, 2015 Posted May 12, 2015 (edited) The pursuit of perpetual motion is equivalent to dreaming about an everlasting tin of beer. "If your theory is found to be against the second law of thermodynamics, I give you no hope; there is nothing for it but to collapse in deepest humiliation." Sir Arthur Eddington, Nature of the Physical World (1927) "The pursuit of perpetual motion is equivalent to dreaming about an everlasting tin of beer." String Junky, The Original Science Forums (2015) The alcohol content may be different, but the message remains the same. Edited May 12, 2015 by J.C.MacSwell 2
swansont Posted May 12, 2015 Posted May 12, 2015 error, see here the energy balance http://www.hwcv.net/energiebilanz-details/, especially http://www.hwcv.net/s/cc_images/cache_2441362811.gif?t=1390652762 and http://www.hwcv.net/s/cc_images/cache_2441398170.gif?t=1390826553 the red arrows mean : no energy is needed to do this ! than Capillary Technology is a great discovery, or what do you think ? Red arrows are not a substitute for actual experiment. Everything seems nice on paper, because you can overlook details. But there will be losses in the system; it will take work to move the pieces around that you have not accounted for. The only proof of perpetual motion is a working device. No outside energy sources. You can't just show one part of it. 3
Delta1212 Posted May 12, 2015 Posted May 12, 2015 @ delta so, you realy claim, moving matter in horizontal direction, means physical work. so are you ready to undersign this with your real name ? Assuming you are doing so at a constant speed in a single direction, you aren't doing work while it's moving. But since it didn't start moving and since it isn't moving at the end, you have to have an acceleration to get it moving and then to stop it. That most certainly requires energy, yes.
HWW Posted May 12, 2015 Author Posted May 12, 2015 (edited) Red arrows are not a substitute for actual experiment. Everything seems nice on paper, because you can overlook details. But there will be losses in the system; it will take work to move the pieces around that you have not accounted for. The only proof of perpetual motion is a working device. No outside energy sources. You can't just show one part of it. you bored, the runing machine was presented succesfully for several times see here http://www.hwcv.net/%C3%BCber-uns/medien/ Assuming you are doing so at a constant speed in a single direction, you aren't doing work while it's moving. But since it didn't start moving and since it isn't moving at the end, you have to have an acceleration to get it moving and then to stop it. That most certainly requires energy, yes. , try https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=67&v=jWbbD42Y3q8 thats all Edited May 12, 2015 by HWW
StringJunky Posted May 12, 2015 Posted May 12, 2015 "If your theory is found to be against the second law of thermodynamics, I give you no hope; there is nothing for it but to collapse in deepest humiliation." Sir Arthur Eddington, Nature of the Physical World (1927) "The pursuit of perpetual motion is equivalent to dreaming about an everlasting tin of beer." String Junky, The Original Science Forums (2015) The alcohol content may be different, but the message remains the same. Yes,that's a nice quote.
DrP Posted May 13, 2015 Posted May 13, 2015 I don't understand the German in that... but I can see it isn't a perpetual motion machine. ;-) What is it? I guess you could use wave power to reset it like those wave power devices or something, but that isn't perpetual motion, whatever that bloke is saying in the vid. you bored, the runing machine was presented succesfully for several times see here http://www.hwcv.net/%C3%BCber-uns/medien/ , try https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=67&v=jWbbD42Y3q8 thats all
HWW Posted May 13, 2015 Author Posted May 13, 2015 (edited) Want to keep your mind, let rule alkohol you find excuse me, if you wanna keep your mind, lets rule alkohol, thats tight Assuming you are doing so at a constant speed in a single direction, you aren't doing work while it's moving. But since it didn't start moving and since it isn't moving at the end, you have to have an acceleration to get it moving and then to stop it. That most certainly requires energy, yes. so you must be the most stupid physicist in the world and you should think about to sue your teachers , look here http://www.physicsclassroom.com/class/energy/Lesson-1/Definition-and-Mathematics-of-Work or here https://www.google.de/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1BLWB_enDE566DE566&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=physical%20work%20in%20horizontal%20direction and now, please stop bothering the folks here Edited May 13, 2015 by HWW -9
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