HWW Posted May 12, 2015 Posted May 12, 2015 Surface tension and uplift The bodies denominated as “floaters” below are cylindrical bodies standing in an upright position in a liquid whose density represents half the density of the liquid, unless otherwise stated (fig. I, II, III and IV have been attached). The basis of the following observation is the easily consolidable fact that a floater in an upright position in a liquid is additionally uplifted when reducing the surface tension of the liquid (see fig. I). This specifically means that a floater standing in an upright position in water is uplifted when adding surfactants (tensides), as shown in a real experiment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GQ2F99x5po In addition it is shown that the additional uplift behaves diametrically to the growing diameter of the floater initiated by the reduction of the surface tension. That means the larger the diameter of the floater the smaller the additional uplift when reducing the surface tension. Until further notice this can be interpreted as evidence of the functional mechanism as the bottom area of the floater (in regard to the buoyant lift) is located in an exponential rate to the circumference of the liquid around the floater on the liquid’s surface. As furthermore shown the floating bodies with an identical density as the liquid (i. e. floating bodies floating in the liquid) are not additionally uplifted when reducing the surface tension. This undoubtedly results in the fact that the specified additional uplift takes effect in accordance with the liquid surface. Consequently the currently valid physical explanation of the “buoyant lift” is not compatible to reality. This interpretation suggests that there is also an additional uplift in capillary tubes taking effect on the floaters located within the capillary tubes because surface tension has been reduced due to the concave structure of the liquid surface within the capillary tubes. -1- As already stated several times at public occasions this additional uplift of floaters in capillary tubes has been proven in deed, as shown in a real experiment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnqjd07qyqU As concave surfaces of the liquids are generated, the surface tension is accordingly reduced because the single molecules of the liquid are not located in the surface constellation any more in which the molecules of the liquid outside the capillary tube. As commonly known the surface tension of a liquid changes when heated. This follows the fact that the distance between the molecules increase (due to the rise of temperature). In the same way the distance between the molecules is increased due to the concave structure of the liquid’s surface in a capillary tube therefore reducing the surface tension. It is thus evidence that the uplift of a floater within a capillary tube depends on the reduction or suspension of the surface tension. It can be concluded that a floater within a capillary tube is uplifted the further the more concave the surface of a liquid within a capillary tube is. This means that the additional uplift of a floater within a capillary tube (compared to a floater freely located in a liquid) is largest when the surface tension of the liquid within the capillary tube approaches zero. This is theoretically as well as practically evident the case when the surface of a liquid within a capillary tube shows a preferably concave curvature. The maximum uplift of a floater within a capillary tube is thus to be determined by the uplift of a free-floating floater when the surface tension has been suspended. When a capillary tube has been accordingly positioned in a liquid in a way the capillary tube’s diameter would increase the hydrostatic head within the capillary tube than the capillary tube emerges from the liquid, then the surface of the liquid within the capillary tube does not adopt its maximum concave curvature and the floater located within the capillary tube is not uplifted to its maximum level as the surface tension of the liquid within the capillary tube has not been reduced to its maximum level. The same applies to capillary tubes with accordingly large diameters as the -2- surface tension of the liquid within the capillary tube is reduced in a small scale respectively. It can be recorded under “special effects” that the additional uplift of a floater within the capillary tube is temporarily absent when the surface of a liquid within a capillary tube is manipulated to the effect that the concave curvature is temporarily less concave. Thereby the floater relatively quickly rises into the maximum concave curvature in the first phase of regeneration, and the rise of the floater slows down diametrically when approaching the maximum concave curvature (see fig. II), as shown here in a real experiment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gezDbEMa-k8 The manipulation of a liquid’s surface occurs analogically to the frame method (also known as separation method). Thereby a pointed object is hung into a liquid so that the tip (point) slightly immerges into the liquid humidified by it. The tip (point) is then pulled out of the liquid taking a liquid film with it and thereby temporarily changes the curvature of the surface of the liquid within the capillary tube. At this point the buoyant lift is extended thereby adjusting at once the physical principle – referring to the uplift in liquids – in that way that not only the pressure ratios present at the bottom of a floater (located in a cylindrical and upright position) in the liquid are essential to its uplift. This is particularly evident by the fact that a floater within a capillary tube temporarily immerges even deeper into a liquid than immerging alongside the capillary tube when the capillary tube is approximate to the surface of the liquid and the surface of the liquid within the capillary tube has been manipulated as described (see fig. III), as shown here in a real test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGK8K1MxwsM As can be seen a floater within a capillary tube is additionally uplifted depending on the curvature of the surface of the liquid within the capillary tube. This leads to the question if the uplift is only valid for floaters breaking through the water surface of the liquid within the capillary tube, or if this influence is also noticeable under the capillary tube. -3- As one can easily see the specified mechanism does not play a role according to the uplift under or alongside a capillary tube. It appears that due to the additional uplift of a floater within a capillary tube an endlessly moving apparatus can be put into effect as an identical floater located alongside the capillary tube always remains on a lower level than the floater within the capillary tube (see fig. IV), as shown here in a real test: http://www.hwcv.net/auftriebs-kapillar-1/ Regarding the principle of conservation of energy the general or phenomenological question arises which source of energy feeds this endlessly moving apparatus?
swansont Posted May 12, 2015 Posted May 12, 2015 You added a liquid that was denser than water. How much of this uplifting effect is due to the increase in average density and volume of the water?
HWW Posted May 12, 2015 Author Posted May 12, 2015 (edited) what do you mean. all experiments were made with water. Edited May 12, 2015 by HWW
Phi for All Posted May 12, 2015 Posted May 12, 2015 what do you mean. all experiments were made with water. ... and a surfactant to reduce the surface tension of the water.
swansont Posted May 12, 2015 Posted May 12, 2015 what do you mean. all experiments were made with water. Water is not the surfactant, is it? What did you add? It apparently had a higher density (you can see it dropping in), and raising the density will make an object ride higher. Also, you increased the volume in the beaker. How big are these effects?
HWW Posted May 12, 2015 Author Posted May 12, 2015 ah, i understand. here you see you see a levitating floater ( in german "frei schwebender schwimmkörper") that holds its high, when a tenside is given into the water. as can be seen, the levitating floater does not move, while the floater in the background is moving up. for this, the density of the water is not responsible for the uprise. you can see all experimewnts here , while this is in german, but maby it is helpful
swansont Posted May 12, 2015 Posted May 12, 2015 Any experiments showing whats happening inside of the tubes? Are they sealed, or open? In any event, I don't see where perpetual motion comes into play. You can't reverse the mixing of the liquids, and for the mechanical effect, you are doing work in placing the larger cylinder in place.
HWW Posted May 12, 2015 Author Posted May 12, 2015 you see here, http://www.hwcv.net/auftriebs-kapillar-1/ and here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EyECC_vvmI ( 18 min 50 sec fff ) why you can create a perpetual motion, if a floater rises up in capillary, as it does indeed.
swansont Posted May 12, 2015 Posted May 12, 2015 you see here, http://www.hwcv.net/auftriebs-kapillar-1/ and here ( 18 min 50 sec fff ) why you can create a perpetual motion, if a floater rises up in capillary, as it does indeed. Are you talking about the object rising when you add energy to the system by manually placing the tube in the water? How is that "perpetual" when you are doing work?
HWW Posted May 12, 2015 Author Posted May 12, 2015 you have to put the capillary tube for one time into the water, and than the machine runs and runs and runs ......
swansont Posted May 12, 2015 Posted May 12, 2015 you have to put the capillary tube for one time into the water, and than the machine runs and runs and runs ...... Then build it and show this. You're missing the energy added each cycle.
HWW Posted May 12, 2015 Author Posted May 12, 2015 (edited) here is the machine Edited May 12, 2015 by HWW -1
CasualKilla Posted May 12, 2015 Posted May 12, 2015 Didn't bother to read a 5 page post on perpetual energy, but these things where we have water on the one side of the device and air on the other can more often than not be explained as a heat engine exploiting the difference in temperature between the two mediums.
swansont Posted May 12, 2015 Posted May 12, 2015 Nothing to demonstrate that this is perpetual motion. You haven't shown that the system doesn't have an energy source.
HWW Posted May 12, 2015 Author Posted May 12, 2015 (edited) Nothing to demonstrate that this is perpetual motion. You haven't shown that the system doesn't have an energy source. error, see here the energy balance http://www.hwcv.net/energiebilanz-details/, especially http://www.hwcv.net/s/cc_images/cache_2441362811.gif?t=1390652762 and http://www.hwcv.net/s/cc_images/cache_2441398170.gif?t=1390826553 the red arrows mean : no energy is needed to do this ! Didn't bother to read a 5 page post on perpetual energy, but these things where we have water on the one side of the device and air on the other can more often than not be explained as a heat engine exploiting the difference in temperature between the two mediums. than Capillary Technology is a great discovery, or what do you think ? Edited May 12, 2015 by HWW
Endy0816 Posted May 12, 2015 Posted May 12, 2015 here is the machine What happens if you take yourself out of the picture? ie. Stop pushing down the object and repositioning it. Does it continue or does it stop working?
Delta1212 Posted May 12, 2015 Posted May 12, 2015 (edited) error, see here the energy balance http://www.hwcv.net/energiebilanz-details/, especially http://www.hwcv.net/s/cc_images/cache_2441362811.gif?t=1390652762 and http://www.hwcv.net/s/cc_images/cache_2441398170.gif?t=1390826553 the red arrows mean : no energy is needed to do this ! than Capillary Technology is a great discovery, or what do you think ? Ok, it took me a few minutes staring at that animation and rereading the explanation (thanks for the opportunity to practice my German) to figure out what was wrong with it. The major, and significant, difference between that animation and the video that you showed is the connection between the two floaters. They are rigidly tether together, rendering them effectively one object. That object is going to displace a volume of water with an equal mass to its own. Moving a floater from one column to another doesn't change the mass of the object. Removing the floater from the column on the left will cause the whole system to rise (as you are decreasing the mass and thus the volume of water that can be displaced) and placing it on the other column will then cause the whole thing to sink back to the same level it was at before the floater was originally removed. It will not sink below that level. The column on the right will be slightly buoyed by its attachment to the column on the left floating in the raised section of water, and the column on the left will be slightly weighed down by its attachment to the column on the left. If you were to severe the connection at its resting state, the one on the left would go float a bit higher and the one on the right would sink a bit lower. In short, this doesn't actually work the way that the animation says that it does. Edited May 12, 2015 by Delta1212
HWW Posted May 12, 2015 Author Posted May 12, 2015 What happens if you take yourself out of the picture? ie. Stop pushing down the object and repositioning it. Does it continue or does it stop working? it continues working, no question ! @delta here you see, that it works like described, because the sledge moves down as described, and thats enough to keep the machine runing
Delta1212 Posted May 12, 2015 Posted May 12, 2015 it continues working, no question ! @delta here you see, that it works like described, because the sledge moves down as described, and thats enough to keep the machine runing Yes, because it's only in one position at a time. If you had two that were attached such that they moved as one unit, they would settle at the average height of the two, and moving pieces from one to the other would have no effect on whether they went up or down. The one in the capillary would push the other higher than it would otherwise go, and the one outside the capillary would pull the other lower than it would normally float. It moves lower because it is displacing a different amount of water outside of that column than in it. If it is displacing water from both at once, the height isn't going to change because it will already be at equilibrium with the volume of water that mass is displacing. Here, I reworked the animation to show something more like what would actually happen:
HWW Posted May 12, 2015 Author Posted May 12, 2015 (edited) @ delta i prefer the reality than an animation, and the reality is this , and so, the sledge moves down far enough, in contrast to your animation ! and apart from this, your animation is not correct. correct is this animation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_bEEl8G7VA ( this link is false rendered here the correct one ) or take a look to https://youtu.be/WOuIXztzO68 ( 3 min, 5 sec fff. ) Edited May 12, 2015 by HWW
Delta1212 Posted May 12, 2015 Posted May 12, 2015 @ delta i prefer the reality than an animation, and the reality is this , and so, the sledge moves down far enough, in contrast to your animation ! But that's not the same thing. That's a single piece being moved between the two positions. You need to demonstrate the attached set up, which doesn't have the same behavior for the reasons I outlined. The video you have shows it always displacing the same amount of water with the height changing because the water levels are different. The animation for the "perpetual motion machine" based on this concept breaks this. It shows the set up displacing a different amount of water depending on whether the weight is on the left or right side of the set up, which doesn't work and is not at all what your video shows.
HWW Posted May 12, 2015 Author Posted May 12, 2015 (edited) your animation is wrong, here is the correct animation and the real experiment to ( 3 min , 5 sec. ff ) Edited May 12, 2015 by HWW
DrP Posted May 12, 2015 Posted May 12, 2015 How can this motion be harnessed to produce stored energy to a flywheel or a battery or something? I'm pretty sure you will use more energy resetting the thing each loop than you will get out of it, even if it could run something.
HWW Posted May 12, 2015 Author Posted May 12, 2015 How can this motion be harnessed to produce stored energy to a flywheel or a battery or something? I'm pretty sure you will use more energy resetting the thing each loop than you will get out of it, even if it could run something. ask simply a physicist of your own choice, he or she will explain it to you !
DrP Posted May 12, 2015 Posted May 12, 2015 I mean, I might be missing something, please explain, but how is it perpetual motion if you have to keep moving the thing across with a pair of tweasers each time it pops up... lol. Sorry, I must be stupid as I am missing the point obviously but it does seem a bit ridiculous to me. Oh - I have a degree in Chemical Physics. It won't work. Sorry- that was terse. It won't work because you have to set the thing up each time, which requires energy. It doesn't run on it's own and you will put more energy in to get a smaller amount out. I am sorry - my German isn't good and I don't fully understand the system, but I'm still pretty sure that if I did, then it still wouldn't work. 2
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