Universal Solution for Heroin Addiction

[crickitt]

Heroin addicts are the most horrible people to live with and yet they are the ones you love. There is no answer, you can do everything and anything and it still doesn't work. I guess the professionals do have the answer, as painful as it is and impossible as it may be, but it is up to you to do it. I would give anything in the world to help heroin addicts, I would do everything I possibly could, but it still wouldn't be enough. The only solution I could imagine would be another terrible drug to ease the pain of Heroin. What a great big f.....mess this is. Too bad the people to blame for inventing this shit are already dead or we could take revenge on them and try to stop the pain of these poor people addicted to heroin. I would put my dog to sleep if I knew she had to live in this dark, lonely, horrible world you have to live in, I know if you could you would not want to live this way. I love you all, and truly wish I could help in some way.

[fafalone]

Heroin was invented by Bayer (the aspirin people), go complain to them.

 

...and also go explain to people in countries beside the US who are in excruciating physical pain beyond your imagination why the only drug that helps their pain is the most evil substance on Earth.

 

Heroin addiction is not the drugs fault, its the way people choose to use it. There are currently 5 times as many non-addicted heroin users as addicted users, and contrary to what some people think, there is no physical addiction after the first time it's used. If people choose to begin a pattern of use that leads to addiction, its their own fault even if done at an unconscious level.

 

As harsh (and contrary to the emotionally based wrong opinion that its the drugs fault that people will defend to the death because they're too emotionally biased) as it is, the truth is that it's the addicts own fault; don't blame the drug.

 

As far as helping the addicts, some treatment programs like methadone maintainence have around a 50% success rate, and programs involving gradually reducing dosage of heroin (and substituting and reducing with other opiates such as morphine) are also successful.

[psi20]

fafalone you said something about using heroine to reduce pain.

 

it reminds me of something i overheard from some classmates. they were talking to each other about breaking their legs on purpose so they could get medical marijuana. it's pretty sad.

 

everyone makes the choice to do heroine, i think (except in the rare case that someone threatens to kill you if you don't, so you do it). the guys who did drugs did drugs together, knew drug dealers, and their parents did drugs.

 

i guess you could view this either way. you can say that it's not their fault, that they were in a society where drugs were steadily available. but then again, they didn't have to take those drugs.

 

you could also say, nevermind.

[fafalone]

Blamng society is even more of a cop-out than blaming the drug.

[Sayonara]

I'm not certain crickitt intended to blame the drug tbh.

[fafalone]

"What a great big f.....mess this is. Too bad the people to blame for inventing this shit are already dead or we could take revenge on them and try to stop the pain of these poor people addicted to heroin."

 

Sounds like blaming the drug to me.

[Sayonara]

It looks a lot more like blaming the people who put temptation in the path of the addicts.

 

I agree with you that the user is the person most responsible for how they administer the drug to themselves. What I'm saying is that "Damn that Fred for leaving his gun where Timmy could play with it" is not the same as "Damn you, evil pistol".

[fafalone]

Blaming the inventors is also a cop-out, so it doesn't much matter; especially since the drug has helped so many people in severe pain.

[Sayonara]

I didn't say that I agreed with him.

[fafalone]

I didn't say you said you did either; i just said that it was another cop-out.

[crickitt]

You are absolutely correct, I am blaming everything but the user, the user being my beautiful blonde daughter, mother of six. I do blame her for taking that first fix, but from what I have read, that is all it takes to become addicted, especially if she has an addictive prsonality, so her being my daughter, am I the mother the one to blame? I am trying desperately to find an answer on how to deal with the pain of loosing my daughter and my grandchildren. Her husband resorted to robbing banks to fund the habbit, he is now in jail for more than a lifetime. Everything I love is gone, and you are right I am trying to place the blame somewhere, it has to start somewhere. I don't believe she would have done this if there where not already a problem. The one remark someone made about leaving the stuff around for anyone to play with, this is true. Parents are punishable by law if they leave a gun around and their children use it. The bar tender can be held liable if the drunk caused an accident and killed someone. So who is leaving the Heroin around for the unfortunate people that misuse it? I agree with the fact that it helps thousands of people who are in pain. If they need it for pain and it helps I am glad they find relief. I myself have had cancer and prescribed Methadone to ease the pain, but when the prescription stopped, I stopped. I have have read that using heroin to ease pain is not the same as being addicted, and when the pain was medically removed so was the Heroin. So you tell me how to let go of someone you love, and let them go on being an addict, because I can't find the answer.

[fafalone]

If you have an addictive personality, and try the 2nd most addictive drug known to man (nicotine is first), then once again it goes back to being your own fault. Psychological addiction can happen the first time; but this is true of any drug, all the way down to alcohol and cigarettes.

 

Sometimes it's just hard to accept that we're all responsible for our own problems.

 

And since heroin is strongly physically addictive, many people who have had it used for medical pain management have been unable to stop once the physical pain was gone.

[MishMish]

Fafalone:

 

"If you have an addictive personality, and try the 2nd most addictive drug known to man (nicotine is first), then once again it goes back to being your own fault."

 

That would assume you know you have an addictive personality, know the addictive nature of the drug in question, and have been taught some skills for how to handle situations which play into the addictive nature

 

While legally one must assume responsibility for one's actions, I do not find it very helpful to lay blame when someone may not have had the necessary knowledge or skills.

 

The only real questions are what to do now, and what may be learned in terms of teaching those skills or making available that knowledge to others so that they can make responsible choices

[fafalone]

Well generally heroin isn't the first highly addictive substance people try, so they have a good idea.

 

And we're too busy trying to arrest everyone with a little bit of pot to properly educate people (see the Drug War thread)

 

If a mentally retarded person doesn't know any better and stands in front of a train, is it the trains fault? Is it the conductors fault? Ignorance is no excuse.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

It's the retarded person's fault, but he can't help it, so it's nobody's fault. Same with heroin, it's the user's choice. So if they can know better, then they wouldn't fry their brains.

Arresting people with pot makes other would-be users not do it, because they're so stupid the only thing to make them think twice is the threat of being arrested.

[fafalone]

And fear has never been a long-term solution to enforcing asinine policies on people.

[MishMish]

Fafalone:

 

I think getting away from this fault and blame language would be a good place to start.

 

Understanding why one person gets addicted and not another may be a better focus. Assuming the individual knows going in whether he will or not however does not seem reasonable to me. I doubt anyone goes in hoping or expecting to get addicted.

 

Basically, I figure people are going to make the best choice they can with whatever knowledge, skills or resources they have available. That does not mean their decision will be what I call a positive choice, misery is relative and sometimes all one can do is make a negative choice of choosing the least bad from a set of bad options. Nor does it mean it is going to be a "good" decision. But it is not possible to understand that decision unless you can understand what factors the individual is working with in coming to it.

 

As for ignorance being no excuse, have had more cause to think on that. First, and to reitereate, do not think "excuse" has any place here, though understanding the reasons very well may. I do not hold people responsible for what has not occurred to them. I do evaluate how they respond when given new information or when their assumptions are challenged. That works both ways, might add, if you are challenging my assumptions then I in effect am challenging yours, and I no doubt have information which pertains to my situation that you will be unaware of. Keeping that in mind may allow for a constructive approach to the situation that does not involve simply casting blame

[fafalone]

Falling into a use pattern that leads to addiction can be prevented with education, and its up to people to educate themselves about a drug before they use it. If they don't, oh well, that's life. It's not societies responsibility to protect people from their own ignorance; and there's also a very strong case to be made for people letting themselves become addicted at an unconscious level, especially since most addicts are trying to escape daily problems with their lives.

[crickitt]

I understand that education is the key to this problem, I wish I had done it earlier. So you are actually saying that's too bad it's their problem and let them just die, and don't even bother to try to help them because it's their own fault. I don't care if it is their fault or not, as a human being I am compelled to try and help no matter what. I will try just one more time, and nothing you say will stop me. I know they are trying to escape daily problems but so do we all, and some people just have more than others and cannot find a way to deal with it. I don't believe people (my daughter) let themselves become addicted. I asked her why in the hell did she do this, she had no answer. Don't you have any compassion for anybody? Have you even tried to help someone overcome their addiction? Have you been addicted? Just what makes you think that you have all the answers, I don't believe you do.....I have been everywhere to try and find an answer and there isn't any.

[crickitt]

MishMish said in post #42 :

Fafalone:

 

I think getting away from this fault and blame language would be a good place to start.

 

Understanding why one person gets addicted and not another may be a better focus. Assuming the individual knows going in whether he will or not however does not seem reasonable to me. I doubt anyone goes in hoping or expecting to get addicted.

 

Basically, I figure people are going to make the best choice they can with whatever knowledge, skills or resources they have available. That does not mean their decision will be what I call a positive choice, misery is relative and sometimes all one can do is make a negative choice of choosing the least bad from a set of bad options. Nor does it mean it is going to be a "good" decision. But it is not possible to understand that decision unless you can understand what factors the individual is working with in coming to it.

 

As for ignorance being no excuse, have had more cause to think on that. First, and to reitereate, do not think "excuse" has any place here, though understanding the reasons very well may. I do not hold people responsible for what has not occurred to them. I do evaluate how they respond when given new information or when their assumptions are challenged. That works both ways, might add, if you are challenging my assumptions then I in effect am challenging yours, and I no doubt have information which pertains to my situation that you will be unaware of. Keeping that in mind may allow for a constructive approach to the situation that does not involve simply casting blame

 

 

fafalone said in post #43 :

Falling into a use pattern that leads to addiction can be prevented with education, and its up to people to educate themselves about a drug before they use it. If they don't, oh well, that's life. It's not societies responsibility to protect people from their own ignorance; and there's also a very strong case to be made for people letting themselves become addicted at an unconscious level, especially since most addicts are trying to escape daily problems with their lives.

[fafalone]

crickitt said in post # :

. So you are actually saying that's too bad it's their problem and let them just die, and don't even bother to try to help them because it's their own fault. I don't care if it is their fault or not, as a human being I am compelled to try and help no matter what. I will try just one more time, and nothing you say will stop me.

 

That's not what I'm saying at all, in fact I believe harm reduction and enhanced treatment programs (and no law enforcement) is the best way to deal with the drug problem.

I know they are trying to escape daily problems but so do we all, and some people just have more than others and cannot find a way to deal with it. I don't believe people (my daughter) let themselves become addicted. I asked her why in the hell did she do this, she had no answer.

 

We all do, and that's where education and other forms of treatment come into play. Turning to drugs should never even be a desire. Also, if its unconscious even she might not realize it.

Don't you have any compassion for anybody?

Yes.

 

Have you even tried to help someone overcome their addiction?

Yes.

 

Have you been addicted?

 

No, however that's because I educated myself on how to avoid addiction BEFORE using the drug.

 

Just what makes you think that you have all the answers, I don't believe you do.....I have been everywhere to try and find an answer and there isn't any.

 

I don't have all the answers, but after studying this (and more psychology in general) for a while at my university, I have a good deal of answers.

[MishMish]

Fafalone:

 

I agree it is not society's responsibility to protect people from themselves. Society does so because it also does not hold people responsible for their actions.

 

But a very important part of the equation i tihnk you continue to overlook is the information and skills level people have avavilable.

 

Unless that information is made available in comprehensible form and people are taught the skills they need to deal responsibly with situations they may encounter, most simply put they will not be able to. As society, instead of addressing the basic problem of making that information and those skills available, we vacillate between picking up the tab for irresponsible acts and attempting to legislate against stupidity. Neither can or will work.

 

The framework in which the questions are asked needs to be changed.

[fafalone]

Yes, the information does need to be more readily available. But people should seek out that information before becoming involved with something they at least have some general idea of the addictiveness and danger of.

[MishMish]

Faflone, I think you are expecting too much of people, basically. There are a lot of things people "should" know or educate themselves about. Not all such information is readily availble or in comprehensible form, even for the edcated layman, and in many instances we are not dealing with what I would call the educated layman. It is not practical to think everyone should become a specialist to navigate the daily world

 

Nor is information alone sufficient if one also requires skills for utilizing that information in a practical or effective manner.

 

Despite your nod that the system is flawed, you do not seem to have fully accepted that and instead interpret the actions of others as if it were not.

[crickitt]

Your mind is set on not dealing with the problem, you say it is their fault and that's just too bad. Well it is only 1/3 their fault, it is society, physically, and physcologically (obviously I don't know how to spell because in your mind I don't know anything anyway) All I am saying, is watching and trying to help someone addicted to heroin, it is very clear and obvious it is not entirely thier own fault. You are just saying all this stuff because you have been reading and studying it, obviously you have not been there and I am glad you haven't had to experience the nightmare of this. You sound completely unwilling to help anybody. I really care and truly want to help these people that suffer so much and way beyond your comprehension. You study your books and sound like you know everything, I don't think you do.