can a strictly steady repeatable diet delay (or even prevent) aging?

[imatfaal]

The opening poster is thinking about homeostasis, the maintaining of constant internal conditions.

 

 

 

That's absurd. Then somebody who spent life starving should live very long. They wouldn't have enough calories to exercise, so they would develop poor immune function, poor brain function, poor circulation, low bone density, etc.

SJ was very, very bad.

 

Luckily science works on what can be tested, measured, and demonstrated rather than by ruling out that which is absurd.

 

http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2014/140401/ncomms4557/full/ncomms4557.html

 

Caloric restriction (CR) without malnutrition increases longevity and delays the onset of age-associated disorders in short-lived species, from unicellular organisms to laboratory mice and rats. The value of CR as a tool to understand human ageing relies on translatability of CR’s effects in primates. Here we show that CR significantly improves age-related and all-cause survival in monkeys on a long-term ~30% restricted diet since young adulthood

 

It is at very early stages, there are still contradictory studies, and we are a long way from consensus - but we don't rule out ideas because common sense say they are wrong.

[StringJunky]

...That's absurd. Then somebody who spent life starving should live very long. They wouldn't have enough calories to exercise, so they would develop poor immune function, poor brain function, poor circulation, low bone density, etc.

SJ was very, very bad.

Calorie restriction and starvation, in his context, are two very different scenarios. It's like saying a slim person and an anorexic are the same. 'Starvation' and 'anorexic' have pathological connotations. It's matter of degree between the two states in each example. Living in a state of constant nutritional satiety.is increasingly thought to be less healthy than a diet just erring on the side of hunger. Compare dietary-induced morbidities between the US and Japan

Edited June 22, 2015 by StringJunky

[MonDie]

Calorie restriction and starvation, in his context, are two very different scenarios. It's like saying a slim person and an anorexic are the same. 'Starvation' and 'anorexic' have pathological connotations. It's matter of degree between the two states in each example. Living in a state of constant nutritional satiety.is increasingly thought to be less healthy than a diet just erring on the side of hunger. Compare dietary-induced morbidities between the US and Japan

 

I was only criticizing your explanation, the idea that the aging process requires calories, as if the body was designed to grow old, and expended energy to make it happen.

I suppose a more benevolent reading is that aging is a byproduct of growth, which does require calories.

 

Luckily science works on what can be tested, measured, and demonstrated rather than by ruling out that which is absurd.

 

http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2014/140401/ncomms4557/full/ncomms4557.html

 

 

It is at very early stages, there are still contradictory studies, and we are a long way from consensus - but we don't rule out ideas because common sense say they are wrong.

 

For StringJunky's hypothesis, there must exist certain aging processes that are inhibited at all levels of calorie reduction.

[StringJunky]

 

I was only criticizing your explanation, the idea that the aging process requires calories, as if the body was designed to grow old, and expended energy to make it happen.

I suppose a more benevolent reading is that aging is a byproduct of growth, which does require calories.

 

For StringJunky's hypothesis, there must exist certain aging processes that are inhibited at all levels of calorie reduction.

The basic idea relates to rates of metabolism. The slower the metabolism, the longer it takes for telomeres to shorten, which are finite. There is a limited number of times a cell-line can replicate before malfunctions start to occur. I think it's roughly about 120 years for human if they get everything right and fate allows. If you eat to satiety all the time you will mature faster and die earlier because the cells will reach senescence sooner. The picture is actually a lot more complicated and nuanced, with plenty of as-yet unknowns, but that's the quick-and-dirty thrust of it.

Edited June 22, 2015 by StringJunky

[dimreepr]

http://www.aplaceformom.com/blog/2013-03-29-where-people-live-the-longest/

 

In Okinawa – an archipelago 360 miles off the coast of Japan – you’ll find the world’s highest prevalence of proven centenarians: 740 out of a population of 1.3 million. Okinawan seniors not only have the highest life expectancy in the world, but also the highest health expectancy: they remain vigorous and healthy into old age, suffering relatively few age-related ailments.

 

Secrets of Longevity: Widespread gardening provides an opportunity for exercise, sunlight and nutritious food, and Okinawans follow an old adage that says “eat until you are 80% full” instead of gorging. They also have a sense of purpose, a positive outlook on life and close social support groups called moais.

 

[MonDie]

The basic idea relates to rates of metabolism. The slower the metabolism, the longer it takes for telomeres to shorten, which are finite. There is a limited number of times a cell-line can replicate before malfunctions start to occur. I think it's roughly about 120 years for human if they get everything right and fate allows. If you eat to satiety all the time you will mature faster and die earlier because the cells will reach senescence sooner. The picture is actually a lot more complicated and nuanced, with plenty of as-yet unknowns, but that's the quick-and-dirty thrust of it.

 

Aerobic exercise lowers blood pressure, which tends to increase with age. Calories can be used to slow aging.

 

How do we define aging anyway?

[Robittybob1]

 

... How do we define aging anyway?

Years of longevity.

[StringJunky]

 

....Calories can be used to slow aging.

In what way?

[Robittybob1]

In what way?

Restriction of calories.

[MonDie]

In what way?

 

exercise

[StringJunky]

 

exercise

You mean burning extra calories through exercise?

[dimreepr]

 

exercise

 

 

http://www.mensfitness.com/training/cardio/can-extreme-endurance-exercise-kill

 

http://www.scotsman.com/news/health/too-much-exercise-can-kill-you-warn-doctors-1-3507514

 

The first two google examples of how that’s wrong.

[StringJunky]

High levels of aerobic exercise, with associated increased calories, will increase your physical endurance but this doesn't necessary translate to increased longevity. You are increasing your metabolic rate, which means that your cell lines are replicating more frequently, so cellular senescence is likely to occur sooner. This is referencing the principle I mentioned earlier. And no, doing bugger all will not increase not increase your lifespan. Exercise levels should be sufficient for maintenance of physical health.

[MonDie]

Exercise levels should be sufficient for maintenance of physical health.

 

Touché

Exercise has a mixed effect on aging.

[StringJunky]

 

Touché

Exercise has a mixed effect on aging.

Either extreme is not good.

[minaras]

Let me answer in a few hundred years.

Athough not definite, there are indirect ways (e.g. gene expression patterns) to estimate the aging related outcome of an intervention, without having to wait 120 years. An example is here: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/06/150610131728.htm

 

 

Calorie restriction with a view to prolonging longevity makes sense if you surmise that the body has a certain developmental path and at the end of it you die. If you can take longer to reach that point of development by calorie restriction/lower metabolism your chronological age should be higher than if you promote development by increasing the energy supply.

 

I think fish live longer if they are fed less, but the difference in that they are poikilothermic, vs our endothermic metabolism, blurs that a lot probably.

Lowering metabolism is a possible explanation for the anti-aging effect of caloric restriction diets. Additionally, a new interesting study has shown that periodic fasting can boost longevity and healthy lifespan, most propably by lowering the pressure and giving time to metabolism to compensate various errors.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/06/150618134408.htm

[minaras]

Some individuals can age three times faster than others:

During a 20^th high school reunion what you notice is quite interesting. They are all 38 years old, but they appear to be aging at different rates. Signs of aging are already evident in this relatively young age group. Researchers have recently published in PNAS a long term study, in which they used a panel of 18 biological measures to address whether an individual is aging faster or slower than the average. The panel included parameters of specific organ function, length of telomeres, cardiovascular fitness, etc. What they found was those that physically appear to age faster, scored worse in this panel and were biologically older. It is also apparent that the aging rate of twins is genetically determined only in 20%, suggesting a greater role of environmental factors, and thus interventions can be possible.

Althought faster, cheaper and more efficient ways to determine aging rates are needed, this study points that you don’t have to wait 110 years to test the efficacy of an anti-aging strategy.

 

Longevity Cookbook:

There is a new project that is called Longevity Cookbook that is mainly a scientific initiative by a group of researchers, to study the effects of nutrition in aging and longevity.

I particularly liked the moto that one of its scientists posted on the groups site. It goes something like: We all have a big problem. Aging that slowly kills us. If we don’t do something about it, we will die….

[minaras]

Life as chemical reactions, diet and human disease.

 

 

Cancer

 

If a living organism is a sum of chemical reactions, then tumor cells are also a group of chemical reactions with specific by largely unknown properties. What is known however is that the reactions of the tumor have deviated from normal metabolism. Tumors are characterized by cells that are rapidly replicating. Hence, chemical reactions of the tumors are turned into “fast forward” mode. The rapid use of glucose in cancer is the basis of a powerful diagnostic test called PET scan, as tumor cells selectively uptake the tracer.

What causes the shift into unusual metabolisms is a hot topic in cancer research nowadays.

Over the last decades, scientists have found a lot with respect to molecular pathways linked to cancer. They have also managed to analyze cancer genomes rapidly and in great detail, with the help of next generation sequencing. However, results from targeting these pathways with drugs has proven to be relatively disappointing, mainly due to a significant amount of cross-talks between pathways.

Currently there is enthusiasm for immunotherapies (that can extend life for some months in some selected cases), but the next best thing is the study of cancer metabolomics. More and more scientists discover metabolic disruptions that are oncogenic. Metabolic disruptions and the speed of tumor chemical reactions can be exploited from scientists to develop novel treatments.

Additionally, complex metabolic disruptions are found also in other multi-cause chronic diseases such as atherosclerosis, autoimmune diseases etc. Most of these conditions are age related. Seems that metabolic disruptions due to aging are hidden behind these age related diseases. It is something like a whack a mole game.

[MonDie]

It is also apparent that the aging rate of twins is genetically determined only in 20%, suggesting a greater role of environmental factors, and thus interventions can be possible.

Intervention might be possible regardless. All that 20% means is that there are things we can do to override our genetics, and that a sizeable percentage of us are already doing them.

Edited July 18, 2015 by MonDie

[minaras]

Yes, but there is a lot more than simply having a healthy lifestyle, or simply use a x vitamin, or avoid something, etc.

 

There is a whole new scientific research field behind the intervention of complex nutritional habits to complex biological systems of chemical reactions, such as living beings. The discovery of the optimal diet for a small animal to improve, lets say a specific function, is a continuum and must be the focus of continuus improvements based on previous evidence. Due to the ease of experiments and interpretation of data, one does not have to be working on a University lab to contribute.

[minaras]

A deeper view on the studies regarding caloric restriction effects:

 

The concept that caloric restriction without malnutrition can increase longevity is known for many decades. As a result, numerous studies had been performed, in order to study the effect of nutrition in healthy lifespan. A thorough analysis of all the studies strongly supports the concept that a strictly steady diet can indeed increase lifespan. I will explain:

First of all, what happens in a complex system of chemical reactions? Without providing initial substrates for reactions (food), then the existing system will reach an equilibrium state and die. If insufficient amount of food is provided (malnutrition), then equilibrium will be eventually be reached at some point, as well. If sufficient amount of initial substrates are provided, then the reactions will happen normally. If you provide some additional substrates, this will neither be of a benefit for the system, but it will be an extra stress, nor the pace of the reactions will increase. On the contrary, it will have a negative impact on the chemical reactions.

Now, why existing evidence support this is the case?

a)The fact that nutrition affects longevity points to a mechanistic system .

b)The differential effects of caloric restriction on different organisms are dependent on the composition of the reactions of each organism. Caloric restriction effect is not universal.

c)Everytime there is a lowering in metabolic rate, there is an increase in lifespan…Slower reactions last for more…simple as that.

d)This cannot be satisfactorily explained by a reduction in the production of reactive oxygen molecules as the culprit of this phenomenon per se, as some studies provide contradictory results.

e)Some studies in insects has shown that the relative proportion of nutrients (e.g. proteins/carbohydrates) is what plays the most decisive role, not caloric restriction.

f)Caloric restriction(CR) only produces longevity if it counteracts a significant metabolic imbalance. Animals under CR were compared to ad-libitum controls, that usually become overweight and obese. CR increases lifespan only in animals that become obese while on ad libitum diet. On the contrary, weight stability was an indicator that animals were receiving an optimal diet, so as to reach the longest lifespan possible.

 

For further study, I propose this article as well as some of its cited references …

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0891584914002317

[minaras]

Recently i read about an interesting discovery, that although it does not exactly support the OP suggestion, however it is very interesting and underscores the increasing importance of nutrition in scientific research as it is more and more linked directly to metabolic pathways of the organism.

Scientists have identified a novel kinase cascade involved in cancer cell growth in response to nutrients. The study is published in Cell Reports this months and it has to do with dysregulation of mTORc.

[minaras]

Maybe someone might find this new study interesting and relevant to this topic:

 

http://medicalxpress.com/news/2015-10-moderation-diet-advice-poor-metabolic.html

 

[John Cuthber]

Maybe someone might find this new study interesting and relevant to this topic:

 

http://medicalxpress.com/news/2015-10-moderation-diet-advice-poor-metabolic.html

 

Interesting, but not relevant.

The question that forms the thread's titles has been answered, and the answer is no.

Among the reasons for this are that your diet needs to supply you with enough energy to meet your body's demands and that energy demand depends on many things such as the weather.

Since thee weather is not repeatable, the right number of calories isn't repeatable so the "best" diet isn't repeatable.

For some reason you keep ignoring this fact.

Why is that?

[minaras]

In a system in which living beings are mechanistic systems of chemical reactions, actually what is there is extremely complex (and complicated) chemical automatons. Aging comes as a process that involves a change in chemical systasis of the system over time, as the phenotypes of younger and older organisms are different.

As we said, this implicates that we can theoretically control the change rate, by controlling the initial substrates of the system (e.g. food, gut bacteria). In theory you can have a certain combination of initial substrates and environmental factors in which changes in the living system are reduced to a minimum.

But, how do we know how to reach this state of stability?

Answer: By analyzing the end products of the system. If they have constant synthesis, this means that the chemical reactions are repeated as they are, and no changes occur. If their synthesis changes, it is an indicator that we must modify the initial substrates.

This method can also serve as a way to experimentally test this theory, because if the rate of stability of the gut content is correlated with aging delay, it means that actually living beings are in fact chemical automatons, and it would open new ways to approach human diseases…

 

Just a thought!!

Once again, I want to note that I am not arguing this is the case, but this is only because it is not tested yet….