Do you really kill mountain lions in US Canada

[zapatos]

Nature on this planet is WRONG.

Wait. What?

 

Nature is neither 'right' nor 'wrong'. Those words do not apply.

[Phi for All]

It's savage. Nature on this planet is WRONG. The way this world works is WRONG, and the sooner we develop out of this mess, the better.

 

I can only stomach so much self-loathing. This "man-is-unnatural" argument is lazy and self-fulfilling. With this thinking, no amount of good works or ethical treatment is EVER going to be enough.

 

Frankly, I think arguments like this are horrible. If you think something is wrong, fix it. Why walk around hating yourself based on criteria you've purposely placed out of your own reach?

[ACG52]

Indeed

 

 

I somehow doubt that. I certainly feel no need to kill animals.

 

 

It's savage. Nature on this planet is WRONG. The way this world works is WRONG, and the sooner we develop out of this mess, the better.

Are you a vegan? Edited July 14, 2015 by ACG52

[MonDie]

I somehow doubt that. I certainly feel no need to kill animals.

 

I get the urge to kill annoying bugs, but not fellow chordates. Noting the (partly or entirely) insectivorous diets of other primates, I bet we started small and worked our way up.

Probably no big game prior to the invention of fire.

[Thorham]

I can only stomach so much self-loathing.

I don't hate myself (no, not even a little bit). How did I even imply that?

 

This "man-is-unnatural" argument is lazy and self-fulfilling.

 

I never made that argument If anything, humans should develop beyond nature. Nature isn't something I'm particularly fond of because it's savage and nasty. We can do better than that.

 

Are you a vegan?

 

Sadly not, but I don't think I'd have a problem with becoming one.

Edited July 14, 2015 by Thorham

[John Cuthber]

 

Nature on this planet is WRONG.

return it to the manufacturer for a refund.

[overtone]

 

 

If anything, humans should develop beyond nature. Nature isn't something I'm particularly fond of because it's savage and nasty. We can do better than that.

Squeamishness is not a moral virtue.

 

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/130182245451692296/

[Moontanman]

 

 

Sadly not, but I don't think I'd have a problem with becoming one.

 

 

Then you really have no leg to stand on...

[ACG52]

So you let someone else kill the food you eat and castigate them for it. That's pretty hypocritical.

[Thorham]

Squeamishness is not a moral virtue.

I'm squeamish because I think nature is savage and nasty? Oh lord Nature IS savage and nasty. Go survive in it for a while and you'll find that out rather quickly. Perhaps it's the luxuries of technology that have blinded you to this fact.

 

So you let someone else kill the food you eat and castigate them for it. That's pretty hypocritical.

I don't eat meat

Edited July 15, 2015 by Thorham

[Phi for All]

It's savage. Nature on this planet is WRONG. The way this world works is WRONG, and the sooner we develop out of this mess, the better.

 

I don't want to go off-topic here too much, but I wanted to point out this example of what I meant earlier.

 

You've declared what we're doing (or what nature is doing) is WRONG. You've declared further that our methodology, "the way this world works", is also WRONG. You claim we need to "develop out of this mess" as quickly as possible.

 

You don't say what is RIGHT, which leads us to assume it must be the opposite of what we're doing now. This means changing just about everything about us, the way we live, where we live, what we eat. And you give us no boundaries or goals to reach, just this nebulous, impractical, development out of a false dilemma. Using your argument, we have no way to satisfy what YOU think is RIGHT.

 

I've seen this all my life. You're a well-meaning person with a dream for mankind, but you've either over-defined what needs to happen to the point where it will never happen, or you haven't defined RIGHT at all, so you can just keep shifting the goalposts no matter how much good mankind can achieve.

 

The mountain lions need a better plan from you.

[Thorham]

You don't say what is RIGHT

That's because I don't know. I only know there's something wrong with the way things work now.

[Phi for All]

That's because I don't know. I only know there's something wrong with the way things work now.

 

OK. I get that. Just be careful that your focus may be too broad. Problems seem insurmountable until we break them down to doable steps, with clear resolutions.

 

Specific actions are what will help most here, like banning the hunting of female mountain lions. Does it solve the problem outright? No, but it's a nudge in the right direction. Enough nudges gets the job done, and may even help us deal with the changes more efficiently. But if you insist that all hunting must cease to make things right in your book, then you're doomed to fail, back to facing that insurmountable problem with no solution.

 

I hate to see you do that to yourself, is all. Nudge something tomorrow, see how it feels.

[overtone]

 

 

That's because I don't know. I only know there's something wrong with the way things work now.

There's also something wrong with your perceptions - nature is in a category level of entity to which words like "nasty" cannot apply. You are not bigger than nature. Nature is bigger than you are. There is no vantage point from which you can make such judgments.

[Lagoon Island Pearls]

Perhaps it's the luxuries of technology that have blinded you to this fact.

 

 

Seeing how you've brought this up, let me ask you a question.

 

Do you wash your hands often? I'm not talking about the obvious times, like after using the facilities or working with dirty things. More like before meals, after a nap or just because it feels good.

 

Hand washing kills millions of bugs. Most of them are harmless, many are beneficial.

 

Chances are if you didn't wash your hands in many instances, it's unlikely you'll die or even get sick.

 

If you've answered yes to any part of this question, how can you be so cruel to needlessly massacre so many helpless creatures, whilst brashly judging others as psychopaths for killing one?

 

 

Perhaps it's the luxuries of technology that have blinded you to this fact.

 

 

 

The guilty dog always barks first. Just saying...

[Thorham]

But if you insist that all hunting must cease to make things right in your book, then you're doomed to fail, back to facing that insurmountable problem with no solution.

 

Ultimately it must, yes. One day we're going to have to leave nature behind and move on.

 

There's also something wrong with your perceptions - nature is in a category level of entity to which words like "nasty" cannot apply.

That's just your opinion and I don't agree.

 

You are not bigger than nature. Nature is bigger than you are.

For now nature is bigger than us, yes. One day we will know enough to leave it behind, and then we will be beyond nature. A day that almost can't come too soon.

 

There is no vantage point from which you can make such judgments.

I can make any judgement about anything

 

Seeing how you've brought this up, let me ask you a question.

 

Do you wash your hands often? I'm not talking about the obvious times, like after using the facilities or working with dirty things. More like before meals, after a nap or just because it feels good.

 

Hand washing kills millions of bugs. Most of them are harmless, many are beneficial.

 

Chances are if you didn't wash your hands in many instances, it's unlikely you'll die or even get sick.

 

If you've answered yes to any part of this question, how can you be so cruel to needlessly massacre so many helpless creatures, whilst brashly judging others as psychopaths for killing one?

 

 

Perhaps it's the luxuries of technology that have blinded you to this fact.

 

 

 

The guilty dog always barks first. Just saying...

 

Wow, you're equating animal suffering and death to killing bacteria. How bright!

Edited July 15, 2015 by Thorham

[Lagoon Island Pearls]

 

Wow, you're equating animal suffering and death to killing bacteria. How bright!

 

You didn't answer my question. You've dismissed it.

 

I will ask again, needlessly killing living things you can't see is acceptable then?

[overtone]

 

 

There is no vantage point from which you can make such judgments.

I can make any judgement about anything

You can't do it from an unattainable vantage point.

[Thorham]

 

You didn't answer my question. You've dismissed it.

 

I will ask again, needlessly killing living things you can't see is acceptable then?

 

I'm NOT going to answer this nonsense seriously

You can't do it from an unattainable vantage point.

 

Like I said, I can judge whatever I want. Vantage point is irrelevant.

[Lagoon Island Pearls]

 

I'm NOT going to answer this nonsense seriously

 

There's nothing nonsensical about it.

 

There is no difference between creatures great or small.

 

Very telling how most animal rights activists seem to only pick the cute or furry creatures as tokens for their righteous indignation.

 

They're often the one's least affected by them or who's obsessive compulsive nature prevents them from objectively addressing all of the fact issues.

[StringJunky]

 

There's nothing nonsensical about it.

 

There is no difference between creatures great or small.

 

Very telling how most animal rights activists seem to only pick the cute or furry creatures as tokens for their righteous indignation.

 

They're often the one's least affected by them or who's obsessive compulsive nature prevents them from objectively addressing all of the fact issues.

I rescue worms stranded on the pavement.

[Thorham]

 

There's nothing nonsensical about it.

 

There is no difference between creatures great or small.

 

Very telling how most animal rights activists seem to only pick the cute or furry creatures as tokens for their righteous indignation.

 

They're often the one's least affected by them or who's obsessive compulsive nature prevents them from objectively addressing all of the fact issues.

 

Male bovine excrement and you know it.

Edited July 15, 2015 by Thorham

[Lagoon Island Pearls]

I don't eat meat

 

I can use those those same absurdities to bolster my point too. Like:

 

Why are all those vegetarians causing all the bees to be killed? They'd have them penned like chickens to be infested in mites, simply because they think honey is superior sugar.

 

Agricultural runoff is known to be one of the world's greatest pollution sources. It displaces wild animals from their habitat. Tilling, fertilizers and pesticides destroy entire ecosystems, plant or animal.

 

Why are they destroying all those cute gophers so they can stuff themselves with soybeans or cereal grains? Surely they can do without tofu or granola bars.

[Thorham]

 

I can use those those same absurdities to bolster my point too. Like:

 

Why are all those vegetarians causing all the bees to be killed? They'd have them penned like chickens to be infested in mites, simply because they think honey is superior sugar.

 

Agricultural runoff is known to be one of the world's greatest pollution sources. It displaces wild animals from their habitat. Tilling, fertilizers and pesticides destroy entire ecosystems, plant or animal.

 

Why are they destroying all those cute gophers so they can stuff themselves with soybeans or cereal grains? Surely they can do without tofu or granola bars.

 

All I'm saying is that I find it psycho to enjoy killing, that killing animals isn't very nice, nature is savage and nasty, and that humans need to develop beyond nature somehow. What's wrong with that?

Edited July 15, 2015 by Thorham

[StringJunky]

 

All I'm saying is that I find it psycho to enjoy killing, that killing animals isn't very nice, nature is savage and nasty, and that humans need to develop beyond nature somehow. What's wrong with that?

You shouldn't anthropomorphise nature. Nature is just the way things are, it is not an entity. i agree with your basic premise that killing for pleasure is something that not compatible with notions of the higher ideals of humanity.