Worlds Energy requirements ' May be ' within our technological Grasp !

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

Our current usage of coal, oil , uranium and other resources , has given concern that we may be ' or rather are' in danger of stripping our store of energy reserves dry.

 

With our current technology , and a lot of advanced thinking , It may now be , technologically possible to tap into the SUN's supply of energy directly , other than by earth bound solar panels.

 

A project of this nature, is both beneficial for earths resources as well as employment in research & development and the ensuing, industrial engineering projects on an enormous scale , that would be , of necessity , involved. All this in addition to the new ' User' facilities whose need will arise , in due course, as the Suns energy becomes directly available for use World Wide.

 

Mike

Edited June 29, 2015 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[Strange]

With our current technology , and a lot of advanced thinking , It may now be , technologically possible to tap into the SUN's supply of energy directly , other than by earth bound solar panels.

 

How would you propose to do this? What does "directly" mean? Generators in the sun with long cables down to Earth... Or?

[Phi for All]

I used to be enamored of space-based solar because of projected increases in efficiency. But as Mike mentions, it's strictly an enormous scale engineering project, so it will most likely involve only governments and mega-corporations. And it's mostly still on the drawing boards. And the political fallout would be huge, considering no country wants a massive satellite capable of sending an energy beam to the surface flying over their citizens.

 

With terrestrial solar panels, we involve a lot more people and economic processes already in place, to match the technology already in place. We only need the equivalent of a square array a couple of hundred miles on a side, spread out on rooftops all over the world, to satisfy all our current needs.

 

Is this space-based solar you're talking about Mike? I didn't see a link to any particular technology.

[dimreepr]

The only way for space-based solar to be effective, IMO, is “IF” someone manages to develop a space elevator. A cost effective way to get the panels up there and the energy could be sent to earth via the tether.

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

.

Yes, well it was Tesla who first started talking about using " above Earth systems " for distributing electricity. I think he got into a bit of bother when one of his demonstrations went ' hay wire '

 

Link to Tesla :- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla

 

 

Modern satellite systems have been discussed and researched

 

However what I wanted to discuss was the principle of taking the Suns radiation towards earth which historically and currently radiates toward earth in sufficient levels to provide more than enough energy . This level of radiation in our direction is way, way , enough , to satisfy our current demands for energy . This in more than enough quantities .

 

Mike

Edited June 29, 2015 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[swansont]

Can you be more specific, so that we have a topic for actual discussion?

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

Can you be more specific, so that we have a topic for actual discussion?

Certainly.

 

Firstly I am proposing , that we should look into having a bucket ball style of devices , positioned in orbit about the earth . These antenna style devices can intercept the radiation coming from the sun toward earth . That a sampling technique is used to reduce a proportion of the incoming radiation to a Sub harmonic of the Suns radiation , ( say 100's , 1000's , 10,000,s of Htz ) . That this captured AC Electrical EM energy can be re radiated towards earth at harmless frequencies and magnitude . This energy can then be picked up by any user, anywhere on earth , as a low level AC Electro Magnetic wave.

 

Thus , in effect , we would be modulating the suns radiation , at a fairly low depth of modulation , at a harmless frequency. It is by de-modulating this signal can an individual or an industrial receiving station collect AC Electricity anywhere on earth .

 

The energy required to provide the initial modulation of the Suns radiation , with this low frequency modulation , can be drawn from the vast supply of energy integral in the Suns radiation.

 

Mike

[fiveworlds]

Our current usage of coal, oil , uranium and other resources , has given concern that we may be ' or rather are' in danger of stripping our store of energy reserves dry.

 

It's true we have turf here but every year the bogs are getting smaller and smaller. Most of the electricity in the country is currently supplied by turf fired power plants but the turf won't last another 20 years.

Edited June 29, 2015 by fiveworlds

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

Here is an example of satellite configurations . This for global positioning , purely as an example

 

Link :-

[swansont]

Certainly.

 

Firstly I am proposing , that we should look into having a bucket ball style of devices , positioned in orbit about the earth . These antenna style devices can intercept the radiation coming from the sun toward earth . That a sampling technique is used to reduce a proportion of the incoming radiation to a Sub harmonic of the Suns radiation , ( say 100's , 1000's , 10,000,s of Htz ) . That this captured AC Electrical EM energy can be re radiated towards earth at harmless frequencies and magnitude . This energy can then be picked up by any user, anywhere on earth , as a low level AC Electro Magnetic wave.

 

Thus , in effect , we would be modulating the suns radiation , at a fairly low depth of modulation , at a harmless frequency. It is by de-modulating this signal can an individual or an industrial receiving station collect AC Electricity anywhere on earth .

 

The energy required to provide the initial modulation of the Suns radiation , with this low frequency modulation , can be drawn from the vast supply of energy integral in the Suns radiation.

 

Mike

 

You need to address the same issues Harold Squared has avoided, such as

http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/89493-smoke-and-mirrors/page-3#entry871479

 

"harmless frequencies and magnitude" seem to be in direct conflict with "transmitting appreciable power"

 

How transparent is the atmosphere at the chosen downconversion frequency? How are you doing this downconversion? Your solution implies geostationary orbits; how do you do this without interfering with all of the communications satellites we have there? How many can you fit? How do you get the power from the ground stations to the targets? How much will this all cost?

Here is an example of satellite configurations . This for global positioning , purely as an example

 

 

How do you track the fixed receivers on the ground?

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

Just to throw into the pot .

 

Arthur C Clark proposed space elevators.

I am not saying this is the solution . But now with carbon fibre technology . What was not possible in yesteryear . Now may be ?

 

Link to space elevator. :- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_elevator

 

Also examine you tube arthur c clark space elevator. :- arthur c clark space elivator google search

 

Mike

Edited June 29, 2015 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[fiveworlds]

Arthur C Clark proposed space elevators.

I am not saying this is the solution . But now with carbon fibre technology . What was not possible in yesteryear . Now may be ?

 

I still think it isn't going to be possible

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

I still think it isn't going to be possible

Correct . These are just proposed ideas.

 

I am suggesting geostationary orbits I. A bucket ball configuration . With these sub harmonic sampling , creaming off a portion of energy for re transmission at lower frequencies for surface energy use.

 

Mike

[swansont]

A bucket ball configuration .

 

Bucket ball?

 

Do you mean buckyball?

 

Geostationary orbits are equatorial only.

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

Bucket ball?

 

Do you mean buckyball?

 

Geostationary orbits are equatorial only.

 

Yes , I always thought it was ' bucket' which is silly of me , having invented a ' buck minster fuller " geodesic dome for fallout shelters , in the 1970's .:-

 

This then , I suppose is only possible with global positioning style orbits.

However , might be better to have ' geostationary ' for the main system . One would have to design in some form of coverage for large Northern and southern latitudes( possibly low earth orbit repeaters) .

 

Mike

 

Next

 

energy and frequency flow charts . Sun to orbiting conversion grids to repeater stations to surface earth users.

Edited June 29, 2015 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[swansont]

One would have to design in some form of coverage for large Northern and southern latitudes( possibly low earth orbit repeaters)

 

Which would be moving relative to the earth.

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

Which would be moving relative to the earth.

 

Yes. As long as there is radiated energy in the form of modulated ( amplitude modulated) this can be picked up by low energy users. Heavy users would need a base station connected to the geostationary transmitters.

 

Principle of operation :-

 

Mike

 

It's a bit like being able to get WI FI everywhere!

 

Except that is WI ENERGY not just signal .

Edited June 29, 2015 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[fiveworlds]

Except that is WI ENERGY not just signal .

 

But wireless electricity is limited in range are you absolutely sure you can get the range?? Not saying you can't the longest wi-fi link is 237 miles. To space is only about 70 miles up. At the moment wireless electricity ranges up to 55 meters are still a big deal http://phys.org/news/2015-03-japan-space-scientists-wireless-energy.html

Edited June 29, 2015 by fiveworlds

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

But wireless electricity is limited in range are you absolutely sure you can get the range?? Not saying you can't the longest wi-fi link is 237 miles. To space is only about 70 miles up. At the moment wireless electricity ranges up to 55 meters are still a big deal http://phys.org/news/2015-03-japan-space-scientists-wireless-energy.html

Your quoted article , shows there is genuine interest in seeking ways of transferring energy from space to a land based venue.

For the reasons of public opinion not being keen on microwave frequencies being used ( being cooked ) , I am suggesting research in the long wave frequencies downward being a less harmful and less dangerous frequency band to investigate ( say 100,000 to 500,000 Hz - ) resonant circuits in space , where size is not an issue would be o.k. ) it's the reception apparatus that might need some ingenuity.

 

It's all to do with Resonance. But drivers and receptors do not need to be continuous . The example of a kiddy in a swing . You only need to supply the accurately timed little ' shove' now and again , to build up the swinging motion to a large swing ( oscillation ) . So accurately produced or synchronised oscillation may be the 'key ' ! ( in radio terminology this is known as Class C amplification ) .

 

Mike

Edited June 30, 2015 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[swansont]

Your quoted article , shows there is genuine interest in seeking ways of transferring energy from space to a land based venue.

For the reasons of public opinion not being keen on microwave frequencies being used ( being cooked ) , I am suggesting research in the long wave frequencies downward being a less harmful and less dangerous frequency band to investigate ( say 100,000 to 500,000 Hz - )

 

It's also about the energy, and absorption losses in the atmosphere, two points you have avoided thus far.

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

It's also about the energy, and absorption losses in the atmosphere, two points you have avoided thus far.

Yes. Well of course this is how the greenhouse effect works currently . All radiation' ish comes in , but infra red tends to get trapped in.

 

I can't be responsible for the workings of the ecosphere, however if some serious testing can be undertaken , I am sure there will be a way of using some of the raw ' Sun waves ' to help in a selection process so that a small proportion of the Suns composite carrier wave may be ' harvested' to produce a much lower frequency modulation wave. This will be the wave to carry the energy of a specific modulation frequency ( say if suitable 0.1 MHz to 0.5 MHz ) . I am hoping this will ride on the back of the existing Sun's carrier waves. As an amplitude modulated carrier wave . Of course this will only apply to those waves going through the antenna collecting grids ( these may be several miles/ kilometers wide or even 100's of kilometers ) . So a small user would need to pick up ( like a wi fi user ) the ambient low energy strength. The bigger user would need to focus on the main beam coming from the antennas. I imagine this following a similar ' field strength ' pattern as experienced by a yagi. antenna .

 

 

Mike

.

Composite picture of radiation patterns of energy , coming in the form of a modulated Sun Wave . Several antennas around the Earth , illustrated as radiation patterns.

 

.

 

Mike

Edited June 30, 2015 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[swansont]

 

I can't be responsible for the workings of the ecosphere, however if some serious testing can be undertaken , I am sure there will be a way of using some of the raw ' Sun waves ' to help in a selection process so that a small proportion of the Suns composite carrier wave may be ' harvested' to produce a much lower frequency modulation wave. This will be the wave to carry the energy of a specific modulation frequency ( say if suitable 0.1 MHz to 0.5 MHz ) . I am hoping this will ride on the back of the existing Sun's carrier waves. As an amplitude modulated carrier wave . Of course this will only apply to those waves going through the antenna collecting grids ( these may be several miles/ kilometers wide or even 100's of kilometers ) . So a small user would need to pick up ( like a wi fi user ) the ambient low energy strength. The bigger user would need to focus on the main beam coming from the antennas. I imagine this following a similar ' field strength ' pattern as experienced by a yagi. antenna .

 

 

How would this happen?

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

How would this happen?

If I were doing the research . I would first look for my vehicle for my energy to the Earth . Namely the wave that is the frequency for modulation of sunlight.

 

My first look would be to frequencies that are similar to the old days of radio , known as LONG WAVE . Just off hand I think it was around 1500 meters . Long wave used to also be used, and may still be used for communication to submarines.

 

We are first starting to look at Amplitude Modulation . Namely the amplitude of any wave . Say the waves coming from the Sun , would , for the portion (minute) of Sunlight that we would here be intercepting , would have their amplitude modulated with a 1500 meter modulation wave. ( assuming the BBC no longer use this frequency ) . The energy for the modulation , would be drawn from the incoming Sunlight . This of course would need to be processed , from some 100's of nano meters to 1500 meters.

 

By using a (yet to be designed/researched ) , modulation device , will be restricting the amplitude of light waves , with a 1500 meter modulation wave.

 

A receiver , on earth, (yet to be developed )would home in on the signal , and demodulates the signal and extract the source of energy. Coming from antenna platforms some kilometers in size or 100 kilometer in size , should provide enough energy for both private and commercial use.

 

In brief ..

 

 

Mike

Edited June 30, 2015 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[swansont]

If I were doing the research . I would first look for my vehicle for my energy to the Earth . Namely the wave that is the frequency for modulation of sunlight.

I wasn't aware that sunlight was modulated.

 

My first look would be to frequencies that are similar to the old days of radio , known as LONG WAVE . Just off hand I think it was around 1500 meters . Long wave used to also be used, and may still be used for communication to submarines.

And how big of an antenna does this require?

 

By using a (yet to be designed/researched ) , modulation device , will be restricting the amplitude of light waves , with a 1500 meter modulation wave.

Which restricts the power. How much power do you plan to transmit?

 

A receiver , on earth, (yet to be developed )would home in on the signal , and demodulates the signal and extract the source of energy.

How do you do this?

[TJ McCaustland]

Now on tapping the sun's energy. Might I propose a method? How bout using all those free neutrons for something? Oh I don't know..... Something like using a neutron capture method to produce radioisotopes that we can use in mass numbers in RTG's...... and set up a nuclear powered civilization..... Or you could go for a more practical but less cool approach of using that big ball of fusion to boil water and beam electricity back via microwave recievers, or use another energy conversion method or another transportation method..... Really, pretty much anything you think of that is practical will work, if you can get funding, Now I'd like to suggest a different approach to solving the energy crisis but that doesn't belong here. (P.S. the two methods suggested here are bogus of course and I only put them there for kicks, Also no mockery intended, Seriously)

Now on tapping the sun's energy. Might I propose a method? How bout using all those free neutrons for something? Oh I don't know..... Something like using a neutron capture method to produce radioisotopes that we can use in mass numbers in RTG's...... and set up a nuclear powered civilization..... Or you could go for a more practical but less cool approach of using that big ball of fusion to boil water and beam electricity back via microwave recievers, or use another energy conversion method or another transportation method..... Really, pretty much anything you think of that is practical will work, if you can get funding, Now I'd like to suggest a different approach to solving the energy crisis but that doesn't belong here. (P.S. the two methods suggested here are bogus of course and I only put them there for kicks, Also no mockery intended Seriously )

I forgot to look at Mike's final post, that idea, though preposterous it COULD work it would just be OBSCENELY expensive and probably impractical........ but it would work......

Edited July 1, 2015 by TJ McCaustland