Personal photos showing curvature of earth?

[Phi for All]

The gist of all this is that there is no way to make a Flat Earth model that matches what we really see happening. But I'm going to add my voice to the others here who say that your are likely wasting your time trying to convince your friend otherwise. Anyone who in this day and age honestly believes in a flat Earth will be immune to any logic or evidence that you can produce. It seems to be always the case that more more bizarre and "out there" the belief is, the more entrenched it is.

 

Some people believe their willful ignorance is the most interesting thing about them, so they hold on to it tightly.

[For Prose]

Also ask your friend why all the other celestial bodies we can observe are round.

[ACG52]

His answer will probably be that they are flat disks.

[Phi for All]

His answer will probably be that they are flat disks.

 

Have you noticed that, if people have studied something and know quite a lot about it, they don't have notions like this? Only people who don't know what they're talking about, and have to decide what to believe based on emotional incredulity, get into silly arguments against reality like this.

[sunshaker]

I cannot answer for him about the sun, even though i remember him mentioning about the sun, also he mentioned about the planes but I admit I did not pay full attention to some of what he was saying, but thought I would have a look myself today.

I can see many flaws but there are certain things I find interesting or "lack of things".

 

like lack of pictures/videos of ships falling below horizon, lack of pictures of new york/dubai taken more than a couple of miles out to sea.

Also some of earths flat areas, who's "average altitude variations within one meter over the entire area of the Salar".

 

 

Salar de Uyuni (or Salar de Tunupa) is the world’s largest salt flat at 10,582 square kilometers. It is located in the Potosí and Oruro departments in southwest Bolivia, near the crest of the Andes, and is at an elevation of 3,656 meters. The Salar was formed as a result of transformations between several prehistoric lakes. It is covered by a few meters of salt crust, which has an extraordinary flatness with the average altitude variations within one meter over the entire area of the Salar.

 

surely over 10,000 km we should see this curve of the horizon?

 

I Should have the pleasure of my flat earths friends company again in a day or two, so I am just brushing up on pro/cons for this theory.

 

PHI For All

 

 

Have you noticed that, if people have studied something and know quite a lot about it, they don't have notions like this? Only people who don't know what they're talking about, and have to decide what to believe based on emotional incredulity, get into silly arguments against reality like this.

I can speak for myself that I try and keep up on every area of science, and I believe he understands the "science of planets/stars/matter/energies" etc but even though he understands the "science" he believes we are been fooled by some higher powers.

So i have to find a way to prove or disprove on the personal level.

Edited July 2, 2015 by sunshaker

[Phi for All]

I can see many flaws but there are certain things I find interesting or "lack of things".

 

like lack of pictures/videos of ships falling below horizon,

 

Hey, you don't get to say that, one was linked to in post #12, you even said it was a good video!

 

There's no reason for you to willfully forget that, unless... ah, there is no friend, is there?

[imatfaal]

I cannot answer for him about the sun, even though i remember him mentioning about the sun, also he mentioned about the planes but I admit I did not pay full attention to some of what he was saying, but thought I would have a look myself today.

I can see many flaws but there are certain things I find interesting or "lack of things".

 

like lack of pictures/videos of ships falling below horizon, lack of pictures of new york/dubai taken more than a couple of miles out to sea.

Also some of earths flat areas, who's "average altitude variations within one meter over the entire area of the Salar".

...

 

surely over 10,000 km we should see this curve of the horizon?

 

I Should have the pleasure of my flat earths friends company again in a day or two, so I am just brushing up on pro/cons for this theory.

 

PHI For All

I can speak for myself that I try and keep up on every area of science, and I believe he understands the "science of planets/stars/matter/energies" etc but even though he understands the "science" he believes we are been fooled by some higher powers.

So i have to find a way to prove or disprove on the personal level.

 

But you CAN see the curvature on pictures of Salar de Ayuni

 

I downloaded a very similar one to yours above

 

 

I zoomed in massively till the horizon was clear to one or two pixels. I then positions my cursor over the far left horizon, the far east horizon, and the centre horizon. You cannot see the cursor - sorry my printscreen doesn't show the cursor - but you can see the pixel (x,y) with top left being (0,0) and the little arrow on the ruler which shows the vertical position.

 

 

2,306

 

 

1799,306

 

 

900, 296

[John Cuthber]

 

But you CAN see the curvature on pictures of Salar de Ayuni

 

I downloaded a very similar one to yours above

 

11-jpg.jpg

 

I zoomed in massively till the horizon was clear to one or two pixels. I then positions my cursor over the far left horizon, the far east horizon, and the centre horizon. You cannot see the cursor - sorry my printscreen doesn't show the cursor - but you can see the pixel (x,y) with top left being (0,0) and the little arrow on the ruler which shows the vertical position.

 

L HS.jpg

 

2,306

 

RHS.jpg

 

1799,306

 

middle.jpg

 

900, 296

I just held a ruler up to the screen- the horizon is curved. however I can't show for certain that it isn't due to a distortion produced by the lens.

[imatfaal]

I just held a ruler up to the screen- the horizon is curved. however I can't show for certain that it isn't due to a distortion produced by the lens.

I did that just to check before I started mucking around with my graphics program :-D

 

A clear day on an aeroplane and it is obvious to the naked eye that the horizon is not flat.

[Acme]

One needn't be elevated to witness evidence of Earth's curvature; a superior mirage suffices.

I couldn't find a good photo but it wouldn't matter for douchebags such as Sunshaker's 'friend' anyway. Just thought I'd offer an alternative to what has already been posted.

 

Superior mirage

...Superior mirages can have a striking effect due to the Earth's curvature. Were the Earth flat, light rays that bend down would soon hit the ground and only nearby objects would be affected. Since Earth is round, if their downward bending curve is about the same as the curvature of the Earth, light rays can travel large distances, perhaps from beyond the horizon. This was observed and documented for the first time in 1596, when a ship under the command of Willem Barentsz in search of the Northeast passage became stuck in the ice at Novaya Zemlya. The crew was forced to endure the polar winter there. They saw their midwinter night come to an end with the rise of a distorted Sun about two weeks earlier than expected. It was not until the 20th century that science could explain the reason: the real Sun had still been below the horizon, but its light rays followed the curvature of the Earth. This effect is often called a Novaya Zemlya mirage. For every 111.12 kilometres (69.05 mi) the light rays can travel parallel to the Earth's surface, the Sun will appear 1° higher on the horizon. The inversion layer must have just the right temperature gradient over the whole distance to make this possible.

 

In the same way, ships that are in reality so far away that they should not be visible above the geometric horizon may appear on the horizon or even above the horizon as superior mirages. This may explain some stories about flying ships or coastal cities in the sky, as described by some polar explorers. These are examples of so-called Arctic mirages, or hillingar in Icelandic. ...

[StringJunky]

.... however I can't show for certain that it isn't due to a distortion produced by the lens.

Yes, I don't think normal camera lenses are flat-field by default. Cheaper wide-angle lenses will give pronounced curvilinear effects.

 

 

....

A clear day on an aeroplane and it is obvious to the naked eye that the horizon is not flat.

How do you know that's not an artifact of your visual system?

[tar]

sunshaker,

 

Pretty powerful powers that be to fool everyone in all the ways they would have to fool them.

 

Once I left Japan on Saturday mid to late afternoon, flew NE into the night along the great circle route over Alaska, saw the vast mountain ranges of Alaska in the morning, flew over Canada and down into Newark, and landed in Newark on Saturday afternoon, a few hours before I left Japan (on the clock). While I was in the air, it sure looked like I was flying around a globe. I can not see how what happened happened unless the Earth is a globe.

 

The great circle route, the curvature of the planet beneath me, the flying into the night, and into the morning, the crossing of the date line...all these things would only have happened if the Earth was a globe. They would not have happened if the Earth was flat...you need to get out more.

 

Take the picture shown early in the thread with the bridge and NYC taken from South Jersey. Print the thing out on an 8 and half by 11 sheet. Draw a line as straight as you can and as parallel to one of the bridge uprights as you can, right next to the left bridge upright, from the bottom of the sheet to the top. Do the same for the right upright. When I did this, I measured the distance between the lines, at the top at 125/60th of and inch. The distance between the lines at the bottom was 120/60th of an inch. It appears that if the two uprights are perpendicular to the ground, that the surface of the Earth must be curved.

 

If the Earth was flat, you could not take the great circle route over Alaska to get from Japan to Newark. With the cost of jet fuel you would have gone directly East to get to the U.S. Which makes me wonder how the powers that be got the North Pole to be North of Russia, AND North of Hawaii, AND North of New York. How do you figure they arranged that?

 

If you leave your camp and go 1 mile south, 1 mile east and 1 mile north and arrive back at your camp and see a bear eating your stores, what color is the bear?

 

Regards, TAR

If you start traveling in any direction and continue straight, not turning even a little left, or a little right, you will wind up (after many months of swimming, walking and climbing) approximately where you began your journey. This you could only do, if the Earth were a globe, as it certainly is. If the Earth were flat, what would happen on your journey? Would you come to the edge of a disc? What would that look like? Why have we no pictures or accounts of this sight? Somebody must have set out in a direction and stuck to it, at some point in the history of the world. I would think such a secret as an edge, would be extremely hard to keep.

 

Take the journey in a straight line, on Google Earth and see that you wind up back home. All the countries are set up exactly like they are on the globe. If you ask a Frenchman in what direction the U.S. lies he would say to the West. If you asked a Turk in what direction does France lie, he would say to the West. If you asked a Chinese woman in what direction does Turkey lie she would say to the West. If you asked a Hawaiian in which direction does China lie he would say to the West. If you asked a Californian in which direction does Hawaii lie, he would say to the West, if you asked a New Yorker in which direction does California lie, he would say to the West. Do you think all these people are lying about what lies to their West? Do you think they are incorrect? Why would they say they know what lies to their West, if the place didn't really lie there?

 

Regards, TAR

Edited July 2, 2015 by tar

[imatfaal]

Yes, I don't think normal camera lenses are flat-field by default. Cheaper wide-angle lenses will give pronounced curvilinear effects.

 

 

How do you know that's not an artifact of your visual system?

 

Because if it was an artifact of my visual system it would happen when ever I looked with only one eye* at any fairly distant straight edge (say the runway) that filled a similar amount of my visual field - and I have looked with one eye at a curved horizon from a plane and at straight edges which approximate the same percentage of my visual field. Or I could take a photo in both scenarios with the same focus etc. settings - ruling out any anomalies caused by different eye accommodation.

 

* just in case you want to invoke some clever stereovision effect that might lead to different results.

 

And all wide-angle lens have distorting effects - cheap ones may have aberations from the expected distortion.

[tar]

Off Sandy Hook NJ you can see large ships coming in and out of Newark/New York harbor. As they come from the East you see them appear, top first on the horizon. As they depart, you see them disappear over the horizon, bottom first. Looks just like the ocean's surface curves away downward.

[sunshaker]

As I said "I HAVE A FLAT EARTH FRIEND" It is not me,

I came on today just to see if anyone had any personal pictures showing horizon/curvature has I could not find much.

 

I think he thinks along the lines we are like an holodeck program, where we have all the science to back us up, but we are only a superficial copy of the real universe.

 

Myself I haven't ever given much thought on the flat earth theory, but thought I would try and like from both sides.

 

also in the picture Salar de Ayuni the average altitude variations within one meter over the entire area of the Salar, which is some 10,000square km which does not suggest much of a curve.

Off Sandy Hook NJ you can see large ships coming in and out of Newark/New York harbor. As they come from the East you see them appear, top first on the horizon. As they depart, you see them disappear over the horizon, bottom first. Looks just like the ocean's surface curves away downward.

but are there any videos or pictures showing this?

[tar]

Sunshaker,

 

Well then have YOU ever stood at the water line on a beach and watched a ship appear from beyond the horizon, or seen one disappear behind the sea?

 

Regards, TAR

[Acme]

...

but are there any videos or pictures showing this?

String Junky posted a video showing a ship disappear over the horizon in post #12

[sunshaker]

Sunshaker,

 

Well then have YOU ever stood at the water line on a beach and watched a ship appear from beyond the horizon, or seen one disappear behind the sea?

 

Regards, TAR

I do not see the sea very often it as been a few years, But I can never remember seeing a ship coming above or dropping below the horizon, not to say I haven't seen ships in the far distance but I cannot actually remember seeing whether I have seen this happen.

this earlier video shows you would at least need a powerful pair of binoculars to actually see a ship going below the horizon.

[tar]

Altitude is measured in relation to sea level.

 

On a curved Earth, someone far away from you, at the same altitude will be below your level line of sight.

 

My brother-in-law, in construction says that if you use a level over here to place a board parallel to the ground and then use a level way over there to place a board parallel to the ground, the two board will not line up with each other. If they were very long boards and had right angle ends, and you butted them up against each other, the bottom of the boards would touch and there would be a little gap at the top.

 

I will have to try this and see if I can get a big enough difference, that you can show your friend.

 

Regards, TAR

[StringJunky]

.this earlier video shows you would at least need a powerful pair of binoculars to actually see a ship going below the horizon.

Nope, I was fishing in the Humber Estuary a couple of years ago, which has a major cargo port in it and I could clearly see the effect as the ships came to and fro', sight unaided, just like the video I posted.

[ACG52]

I think he thinks along the lines we are like an holodeck program, where we have all the science to back us up, but we are only a superficial copy of the real universe.

It sounds your 'friend' has delusions that go well beyond flat earth.

[sunshaker]

Nope, I was fishing in the Humber Estuary a couple of years ago, which has a major cargo port in it and I could clearly see the effect as the ships came to and fro', sight unaided, just like the video I posted.

You would think with so much water on earth these type of videos would be easy to come by, but I can only find the video you posted.

 

String Junky posted a video showing a ship disappear over the horizon in post #12

on further viewing something does not feel right in the video, it feels a little photo shoppy, also unsure of the distance the ship could travel in an hour to show it that far below the horizon. perhaps it his just me looking at a sail ship with its sails still up.

but still it is the only video I could also find.

[StringJunky]

You would think with so much water on earth these type of videos would be easy to come by, but I can only find the video you posted.

 

on further viewing something does not feel right in the video, it feels a little photo shoppy, also unsure of the distance the ship could travel in an hour to show it that far below the horizon. perhaps it his just me looking at a sail ship with its sails still up.

but still it is the only video I could also find.

It's because it is digitally zoomed in by a large degree.

[Phi for All]

this earlier video shows you would at least need a powerful pair of binoculars to actually see a ship going below the horizon.

 

That's pretty annoying. You post a video you know isn't representative, StringJunky shows you one that is, you then claim there are no videos, and when we remind you of StringJunky's video (again), then (again) you post the same video you started with.

 

I think you're trolling now. And I think you're a flat-earther.

[tar]

sunshaker,

 

I played with some boards a little but it would have taken too much work to get ends sawed at exact 90 degree angles and I only had 6 and 8 foot boards, and I thought the difference would be hard to show convincingly so I abandoned that effort, but thought of an experiment you could run for yourself, that if convincing, you could show your friend. Inside a large structure where you can make it a little dark, like a long basement, or barn or something, where you can set up two boards, 50 feet from each other, take two 8 foot boards (like a 1 by 6) and into each screw to eyelets on the same face of the board, exactly an inch from the top edge and one inch from either end (so they are almost 8 foot apart), and turn the eyelets perpendicular to the ground so you can see the other through the one. Do the same on the other 8 foot board. Now get a laser pointer so you can shine it through the two eyelets and then through the other two eyelets on the other board. See if you can get both all four eyelets to line up AND have both boards level, to a level placed at the center of each of the boards. If you do not have any difficulty performing this feat, with the two boards, right next to each other. Take one of the boards 30-50 feet away and see if you can do it. If the Earth is flat, you should have no trouble getting the 4 eyelets in exact alignment AND the top of both boards, exactly level. If the Earth is curved, you will have to put the 2nd board a little higher up to get the laser that is going through the first two eyelets to go through the first eyelet of the second board...AND if the second board is level, the fourth eyelet will not be in line with the first three, it will be a little below the laser line, which is getting further and further from the surface of the Earth, as it goes. (Since the Earth is curving down away from the location of the first board.)

 

So don't believe what we, and billions of others have been saying for hundreds of years. See for yourself.

 

Regards, TAR

Edited July 2, 2015 by tar