Beginning of life

[JackG]

These musings have been sent to the New Scientist magazine, as well as, a number of eminent scientists over the past year. To date I have received no responses. I was hoping that some one on this forum may feel able to discuss and contribute to this.

 

 

****************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

 

 

For the last thirty years I have woken up at night wondering how life began.

why this should happen I don’t know. As a layman I do not have the knowledge

 

or information afforded to yourselves, and unable to go any further than my

 

thoughts. If you could give me some answers I would be most grateful.

 

 

 

THE BIG BANG THEORY

------------------------------

We are told an explosion in space released chemicals that fell to Earth and

 

completed its journey in a deep-sea hypothermal vent. Some scientists say

 

these chemicals formed a soup from which one-cell creatures came into being.

 

Such an explosion would spread residue from one end of the Earth to the other.

 

This for me is a problem, falling from different heights weighing various amounts

 

into a tidal salty sea ending up together, undiluted and uncontaminated.

 

The odds this coming together must be astronomical, in my humble opinion can

 

Only be accepted if you believe in miracles. This hypothesis goes further these

 

one-cell creatures came on land and were responsible for all life. It is hard to

 

believe those one- cell creatures were so diverse they eventually changed into

 

millions of different species.

 

Another aspect to consider, this life created by chemicals cannot be

 

copied in clinical laborites. What abilities would a one –cell creature have?

 

compared with a common fly that is multi-cell creature. Lord Kelvin [William

 

Thomson} Said:

 

“ I confess to being deeply impressed by the evidence put before us by professor

 

Huxley, and I am ready to adopt, as an article of scientific faith, true through all

 

Space and through all time, that life proceeds from life, and from nothing but

 

life.”

 

Two such redoubtable minds of their time almost unsurpassed in achievement

 

say, indirectly, the big bang is not possible.

 

 

 

ANIMALS, PLANTS AND MAN

---------------------------------------

 

Webster dictionary puts vascular plants, such as ferns, began life 390 million

 

years ago; Insects, reptiles plus amphibians 230 million years ago, flowering

 

plants 160 million years ago and birds 100 million hundred years ago life of

 

man estimated to have begun 70 million years ago. Plants are very interesting

 

since it could be argued they were the first life. How did plants get to Earth? The

 

only theory I have heard is that meteorites from another world crashed on this

 

Planet-exposing seeds trapped inside. To travel millions of light years with the

 

harmful rays in the cosmos and the longevity of the journey make this theory

 

unlikely. Ferns and flowering plants were separated by two hundred million

 

years so it would have to have happened twice If however this feat was managed

 

it evokes another thought, whatever

 

time it took to reach Earth, for instance, a million light years, where it came

 

from would have been at least that amount of time ahead of life on Earth.

 

 

Darwin wrote his famous theory on evolution, but evidence shows us it might be

 

true, or might not. If you can imagine millions of one-cell creatures emerging

 

from the sea, subject to the same environment changed into billions of different

 

species. Taking this a step further, there would have been thousands of these

 

creatures that chose exactly the same place to live and became so different as an

 

Elephant is to a Ant. Man gave many other species millions of years start in their

 

Evolution and achieved wonders. They built cities, wrote music, great works of

 

art and most of all complicated languages to communicate. Other species, in

 

millions of years, have achieved nothing in comparison. We tend to be amazed

 

when an animal uses a stick or a stone as a tool, we are dumbfounded when

 

animals are taught to do complicated tricks, it took them millions of years to

 

reach this state. If it is accepted that man came from apes, then why do these ape

 

still exist? In 70 millions years they should have all have changed. If the same

 

species of ape lives today all it says is that environment may or may not change

 

appearances. In billions of different species it is most likely that many will have

 

related features. One can surmise man was never an ape but ape like. He would

 

have been hairy to protect him from the climate but as time elapsed things would

 

change. Wearing animal skins for protection, discovering fire to keep warm, and

 

living in caves all of these elements over time would eliminate the need for hair.

 

This cannot be claimed as environmental change, this is progress.

 

 

 

GOD AND RELIGION

---------------------------

 

 

If you can believe in God then nothing is impossible. To accept the abilities

 

attached to such a being creating life would be a simple task. One might ask

 

one self,” how can there be a God when so many evil people are allowed to

 

prey on the innocent unhindered? Why are people starving ? Including children

 

that could hardly be classed as sinners”. These thoughts are further mudded by

 

religion. Often people are told ”IT IS THE WILL OF GOD” you must not question.

 

A more intelligent thought might be why is it God’s will? If man never questioned

 

he would still be living in caves, wearing animal skins and using flints to make

 

fires. The bible is so contradictory almost impossible to take seriously. Tells of

 

life beginning with Adam and Eve, does this mean sexual interaction between

 

brothers sisters, mothers and fathers? We know that medically this is unsound

 

and hardly likely to produce a healthy race, which by survival to modern times it

 

must have been. The bible then condemns such sexual interaction between

 

direct families as a terrible sin and should not be tolerated. How do intellectual

 

Scientists who are also devout Christians gather their thoughts? The bible says

 

life began with Adam and Eve yet fossils gathered prove life began millions of

 

years before. There are so many contradictions in religion too numerous to

 

comment on, except one, if you truly believe in God religious leaders were meant

 

to help people and not rule them and certainly not to live in luxury while millions

 

starve.

 

 

[MigL]

Your ramblings are so full of misconceptions about science and current theories that I can't even begin to address them in a post.

My advice...

Spend a little less time sending these ramblings to eminent scientists and publications ( or posting them on forums ), and a little more educating yourself with some good books. They are available at all levels, from light reading to graduate level/heavy math. That's what you should be doing when you wake up at night with these thoughts and can't sleep.

 

There are many here who can point you in the right direction. From explaining what the Big Bang actually implies to how evolution works. But you cannot get an education from forums.

[Moontanman]

You ideas fail here to begin with:

We are told an explosion in space released chemicals that fell to Earth and

completed its journey in a deep-sea hypothermal vent. Some scientists say

these chemicals formed a soup from which one-cell creatures came into being.

Such an explosion would spread residue from one end of the Earth to the other.

 

 

 

This is not in anyway similar to what the current scientific consensus holds to be evidently true..

 

The big bang was not an explosion in space, it was the expansion of space time.

 

The Earth did not exist then, and wouldn't for another 10 billion years at least.

 

The big bang did not create the chemical s of life such chemicals were forged in the heart of stars, the big bang only produced hydrogen and helium with a tiny amount of lithium.

Edited July 26, 2015 by Moontanman

[swansont]

!

Moderator Note

 

Your three different sections could (and should) be broken up into three posts, placed in the appropriate sections of the forums. Each one is likely to generate some feedback, as it already has, and together it will be a mess.

 

Since you have already posted this here, the discussion on the big bang can continue. Evolution/abiogenesis and religion discussions should take place in their respective areas.

 

[Airbrush]

"For the last thirty years I have woken up at night wondering how life began.

why this should happen I don’t know. As a layman I do not have the knowledge..."

 

Then research. As stated above, read up on whatever subject it is that baffles you. Look up anything on wikipedia.org, then google, or youtube to learn more.

[Strange]

THE BIG BANG THEORY

This section appears to have no connection to the big bang theory, not to any theory of abiogenesis I have heard of.

 

Two such redoubtable minds of their time almost unsurpassed in achievement say, indirectly, the big bang is not possible.

 

We have learned a lot since then (the big bang model did not even exist at the time). The evidence for the big bang theory is overwhelming (but the theory says nothing about the origin of life).

 

 

How did plants get to Earth? The only theory I have heard is that meteorites from another world crashed on this Planet-exposing seeds trapped inside.

 

Where on earth did you hear such a theory. The only theory I have heard is that they evolved here.

 

To travel millions of light years with the harmful rays in the cosmos and the longevity of the journey make this theory unlikely.

 

Meteorites formed in our solar system and have not travelled millions of light years.

 

Darwin wrote his famous theory on evolution, but evidence shows us it might be true, or might not.

 

The evidence show us it is true.

[Phi for All]

It breaks the heart to see thirty years wasted just because somebody wasn't interested in science in school. Whatever you've done to educate yourself in these subjects didn't work well, and you need to fix it. Nothing personal, you aren't alone, and it's actually good you're here, if you can take the criticism.

 

The real tragedy would be to spend any more time on a failed process. Real information, gleaned from trustworthy data and compiled according to the most successful methodology humans have ever known, it's all available for you to learn. Science is far more exacting than you've been led to believe.

 

Wolfram Alpha for math, TalkOrigins for evolution, these are good places to start, there are many others. You can't rely on the pop-sci garbage, or the politically/religiously motivated "controversies" to get your science information. Those sources have messed up definitions that science uses with precision, and inaccuracies tend to compound themselves when the subject is as big as the universe.

[Mad For Science]

 

For the last thirty years I have woken up at night wondering how life began.

why this should happen I don’t know. .

 

 

I would recommend a good sleeping pill.

why this should happen I don’t know. As a layman I do not have the knowledge

 

or information afforded to yourselves,

 

That is the only correct thing you have said in your post.

THE BIG BANG THEORY

------------------------------

We are told an explosion in space released chemicals that fell to Earth and

 

completed its journey in a deep-sea hypothermal vent.

 

I don't know who told you this but either they are wrong or you misheard them.

 

 

The odds this coming together must be astronomical, in my humble opinion can Only be accepted if you believe in miracles.

 

Since life did not form or evolve by pure chance the odds are irrelevant. They can also be accepted if you learn what the theories actually say.

 

Another aspect to consider, this life created by chemicals cannot be

 

copied in clinical laborites.

There are many things that can not be created in the laboratory, the formation of a planet for example. The formation of the first life on Earth is not yet completely understood which would make it difficult to recreate, especially considering abiogenesis is relatively new (<100 years old).

How did plants get to Earth? The

 

only theory I have heard is that meteorites from another world crashed on this

 

Planet-exposing seeds trapped inside.

Perhaps you could provide a source for this 'theory' of yours.

If you can imagine millions of one-cell creatures emerging

 

from the sea, subject to the same environment changed into billions of different

 

species.

 

 

 

I am pretty sure that it was the arthropods that emerged from the sea, not single celled organisms.

If it is accepted that man came from apes, then why do these ape

 

still exist? In 70 millions years they should have all have changed. If the same

 

species of ape lives today all it says is that environment may or may not change

 

appearances. In billions of different species it is most likely that many will have

 

related features. One can surmise man was never an ape but ape like.

Humans are still apes.The ape like creatures that both humans and other apes (like gorillas etc) are extinct. Both man and other apes diverged a few million years ago.

Edited July 28, 2015 by Mad For Science

[jeffellis]

Wow--i am disappointed to read so many arrogant and rude responses to a simple question. I think life began in this universe the moment it was formed. Stars are alive, and since I think our Big Bang was born from a collapsing star in another universe, lifein our universe has always existed.

[Phi for All]

Wow--i am disappointed to read so many arrogant and rude responses to a simple question. I think life began in this universe the moment it was formed. Stars are alive, and since I think our Big Bang was born from a collapsing star in another universe, lifein our universe has always existed.

 

We qualified our responses, and made sure to place criticism where it seemed most apt. You, however, have seen fit to offer your own ill-conceived, non-mainstream, wishful thought about something you can't possibly know about. Anything before t=0 is sheer conjecture. Further, you base a conclusion (life in our universe has always existed) on that shaky premise, more bad reasoning.

 

Stars are alive?! Do you have anything to support this statement, other than a tortured definition of life you've cobbled together for this purpose? Actually, don't answer here. Start your own thread instead of hijacking this one, and make sure to put it in our Speculations section. This is a mainstream section.