Saw no meteors but saw ISS fly by

[sunshaker]

Out in my garden yesterday (cloudy), There was one little gap at about 10.30, I could only see one bright star in this gap which I had my binoculars focused on hoping to catch a shooting star,

When all of a sudden something flew through this gap it was not a shooting star but the ISS, which I was just as pleased about (first fleeting thought was ufo) but checked online and ISS was in that area of space(UK) at 10.30.

 

 

I then thought of the dangers for the ISS when we have these meteor showers with dust and rocks travelling at 140,000mph, we have a fair few showers each year and I am surprised there have been no incidents that I know of,

Surly these meteor showers must be a major threat to satellites and space station plus all the space junk up there.

Perseid meteor shower viewed from ISS

 

Courtesy of NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center: https://www.flickr.com/photos/28634332@N05/6045926830/

Edited August 13, 2015 by Phi for All
added link for credit

[Phi for All]

Even a bit of debris or a meteor the size of a hex-nut from a bolt can be devastating to a body in orbit. The impact usually vaporizes the small bits to plasma, which can damage onboard electronics.

 

I attended a seminar a couple of weeks ago on Space & Disaster Risk Management. All satellites have a bit of maneuverability, and the various space agencies track meteor showers and compensate as much as they can. Still, while space around the planet is really huge, it's almost inevitable there are going to be collisions and impacts.

 

The ISS got hit a few years back, a small bit of something put a chip in the outer of four panes of fused glass on the cupola. This was from a MMOD (Micro-Meteoroid and Orbital Debris) which was too small to track, but did visible damage nonetheless.

[DrP]

Was that a speck of paint Phi? I seem to remember something about a speck of paint smashing something in space at some point some time ago. That or they were saying that even a little speck of paint that flaked off a satellite could cause serious problems. I can't remember.

[sunshaker]

when I look at visuals showing space junk I wonder how long it will be before it is not safe to have a space station or perhaps even satellites.

 

 

There are more than 20,000 pieces of debris larger than a softball orbiting the Earth. They travel at speeds up to 17,500 mph, fast enough for a relatively small piece of orbital debris to damage a satellite or a spacecraft. There are 500,000 pieces of debris the size of a marble or larger. There are many millions of pieces of debris that are so small they can’t be tracked.

 

How do we even start to keep track of all this junk?

[Phi for All]

How do we even start to keep track of all this junk?

 

Here's a nifty little tool, using Space Tracks data from the US military.

 

Have fun!

Was that a speck of paint Phi? I seem to remember something about a speck of paint smashing something in space at some point some time ago. That or they were saying that even a little speck of paint that flaked off a satellite could cause serious problems. I can't remember.

 

Wow, you're thinking of the Space Shuttle, iirc. That was 30 years ago, wasn't it? I remember a fleck of white paint poked through the outer layer of a window. Very scary. And the stuff they can track now has to be much bigger than that.

 

Although I'm less worried about the pieces we can see, that we can track. It's the little bitty ones you can't see that will cause more problems.

[DrP]

 

Wow, you're thinking of the Space Shuttle, iirc. That was 30 years ago, wasn't it?

 

lol - omg... Things don't often make me feel old.... but that did! You are probably right, I might have got it mixed up. When I was at uni the astrophysics dept were bombarding very small objects at silly speeds into thick sheets of metal. They had some awesome results on display. Some impacts would make a 'splash' like ripple across the surface of the metal which would then freeze into place. It was like a still shot of a drip into water displayed on the surface of the metal. Pretty cool stuff... they might have mentioned paint flecks and debris a lot as justification for the work.

[Phi for All]

 

lol - omg... Things don't often make me feel old.... but that did! You are probably right, I might have got it mixed up. When I was at uni the astrophysics dept were bombarding very small objects at silly speeds into thick sheets of metal. They had some awesome results on display. Some impacts would make a 'splash' like ripple across the surface of the metal which would then freeze into place. It was like a still shot of a drip into water displayed on the surface of the metal. Pretty cool stuff... they might have mentioned paint flecks and debris a lot as justification for the work.

 

There might have been some paint incidents since. That was one I remembered because it seemed so bizarre at the time. Btw, you aren't old, you're experienced and wise. Together, we put the "sag" in sagacious!

 

The energies involved in these bits of debris are staggering when you think about it. Imagine getting hit with a steel bolt traveling so fast it turns to plasma! And you're right, the "splash" would just freeze there into the metal.

 

I used the think the vastness of space was a bit scary, but that's what protects you from the real dangers of the unfamiliar energies out there. We definitely need to figure out how to clean up this resource. Space should be treated like fresh water and breathable air.

[DrP]

I seem to remember a discussion on a documentary some time back (And PLEASE don't tell me it was 20 years ago or I'll feel like I am loosing it! It was within the last 5 or 10 for sure) where they were taking about clean up possibilities. One idea was to have have thousands of little computerized craft that would launch into orbit and track a suitable piece of junk each and sidle up to it and catch or destroy it depending upon the feasibility of each case. Very expensive of course. Have we discussed it here at all recently? It could be a difficult problem to solve.

[Phi for All]

I seem to remember a discussion on a documentary some time back (And PLEASE don't tell me it was 20 years ago or I'll feel like I am loosing it! It was within the last 5 or 10 for sure) where they were taking about clean up possibilities. One idea was to have have thousands of little computerized craft that would launch into orbit and track a suitable piece of junk each and sidle up to it and catch or destroy it depending upon the feasibility of each case. Very expensive of course. Have we discussed it here at all recently? It could be a difficult problem to solve.

 

We've discussed it here. Iirc, the best of the "sidle up to it" scenarios involved attaching a tail to the debris so it slows down due to drag and eventually burns up. I liked that one because it seemed like you could re-use the craft instead of having them latch on and drag the debris down with them.

[DrP]

when I look at visuals showing space junk I wonder how long it will be before it is not safe to have a space station or perhaps even satellites.

 

Should be possible to fix though, well, feasible anyway.... it's just who is going to pay for it? An international tax maybe (aimed at countries that have put stuff up there or who can afford to pay more). ?

[Phi for All]

 

Should be possible to fix though, well, feasible anyway.... it's just who is going to pay for it? An international tax maybe (aimed at countries that have put stuff up there or who can afford to pay more). ?

 

New stuff that goes up has to have an exit strategy for when they reach the end of their usefulness, but you've put your finger on the real problem. Nobody wants to pay a penny to clean up the old stuff if it means admitting you might be liable. An international fund that removes debris based on which bits represent the biggest dangers would probably help a great deal.

 

I just feel like if we don't keep working to fix it, we're inviting all those horrible movie plot tragedies along every time we use space as a resource. Murphy's Law rules supreme out there among the multi-million dollar investments and the little bits of junk.

[sunshaker]

Myself I believe lasers are about the only option, I unsure yet if there are lasers that can vaporize junk completely, but in time I expect there will be.

I seen this, about maybe putting a laser on the ISS. http://gizmodo.com/scientists-propose-putting-a-laser-on-the-iss-to-blast-1699316224

 

 

scientists at Japan’s RIKEN institute suggest in a new paper in Acta Astronautica. A high-powered laser can be used to nudge space junk toward the Earth’s atmosphere, where it will harmlessly burn up.

I noticed in the space junk graphic in post 4, that there are at least 13 nuclear reactor fuel cores also 32 nuclear reactors in earth orbit below 1,700km,

I have not checked this out but these must represent a problem that needs to be sorted, Not sure what would happen if these came crashing back to Earth?