My views of Education

[Kylon]

Okay, I have always been a little more, advanced, than the group around me(or at least I think I am). I found out that schools look more towards achievement nowadays, and less towards grades.

 

Also I think the whole IQ test is just how well you can take the test.

 

Anyways, I have always been interested in power and science because I like science. I came up with likes of concepts, theories ect... and alot of them could be realisticly applied to the world around me.

 

I think that since the brains development starts at age 0-25 and it still develops after that but not hardly as much, then what schools push for is LEARN EVERYTHING THAT IS ALREADY BEEN DONE. CONFORM. DO NOT BE CREATIVE. YOU ARE BEING PREPARED FOR THE WORK FORCE TO BE A DRONE.

 

I really think this kind of educational method a( deters and destroys creativity. b( removes alot more of the creative individuals from positions where they can help people.

 

What do you think?

 

No creativity being developed means that less creativity will not be as much their later on.

 

MORE CREATIVITY MIXED WITH LEARNING. MORE APPLICATION OF SCIENCE AND NOT JUST THE ASSIMILATION OF KNOWLEDGE!

[greg1917]

One thing i would say is that in more and more schools, pupils are being taught how to pass an exam rather than learn a subject. Dont need to learn the concept, just memorise this effect/ bunch of figures/sentence. thats my experience of science subjects in senior school anyway. In arts subjects pupils are encouraged to be creative, thats the whole point. what happened in your school?

 

i happen to go to a school which has a very open minded intelligent person as the head of the art department. in their final year pupils are given a carte blanche to make a folio of anything they really want, sculpture, many forms of painting etc. surely this is creativity?

[NSX]

Originally posted by Kylon

Okay, I have always been a little more, advanced, than the group around me(or at least I think I am).

 

Don't be too vain...hehe; but you could be right.

 

Originally posted by Kylon

LEARN EVERYTHING THAT IS ALREADY BEEN DONE. CONFORM. DO NOT BE CREATIVE. YOU ARE BEING PREPARED FOR THE WORK FORCE TO BE A DRONE.

 

Isn't that what Business and / or commerce is? <b>lol</b>

 

I see where you're coming from; there's such a pressure for us to become a contributing member of society; but then again; you push for creativity. What is creativity? Remember, not everyone can be a Picasso, or compose like Beethoven; it's hard to put black & white guidlines on grey areas.

[fafalone]

If we didn't learn about what's already been done, achievement would become quite redundant and innovation would drastically slow down.

[T_FLeX]

What are you talking about, can you even give an example of how they would make the students more creative? Creative as in ART?

[spacemanspiff]

I think i can kind of give an example of what he's talking about.

 

In high school math when i took the test i woud get the answers right, showing little work and certainly not using the teachers "6 step method". and i get points take off. I go to her and ask why and she admits that she knows that i totally understand the material but for some reason it is imperative that i use her 6 step method.

 

so in order to get grades i have to conform and do the problems exactly the same as how everyone else does. even though i can explain all the concepts perfectly well, it's not about learning, but producing the right answers in the correct format.

[dluther]

The reason being for the "6 Step method" is because in our public school systems, teacher's are teaching to the lowest of the class, therefore the higher end of the class (above adverage) becomes bored but yet we can comprehend the 6 step method into a two step method... but in my school thats not exceptable, for some strange reason...

 

However, I think teachers should recognize each students capabilities so the students above adverage can be challanged.

[Hitman47]

Well i believe that : Screw education

 

quit making us learn useless stuff

 

we are naturally motivated to learn. If we want to learn some shit i go to the internet or get a book.

 

No to the PRESSURE

 

[T_FLeX]

Originally posted by Hitman47

Well i believe that : Screw education

 

quit making us learn useless stuff

 

we are naturally motivated to learn. If we want to learn some shit i go to the internet or get a book.

 

No to the PRESSURE

 

 

 

I have no problem learning (seemingly) useless stuff. It's just how my school attempts to teach things. Take for example the last 2 weeks in my economics class. I come in and on the board it writes "read chapter 17 do section reviews 1-5" we have covered around 8 chapters in two weeks, and I know for a fact no one in the class took the time out to read the chapters. The teacher just sits there and let's everyone copy everyone's answers. What the fuck is this? I hate school. Oh yea and the test are even more pathetic. We had a 100 question open book test. While everyone was working so hard copying each others papers I leisurely wrote 100 made up bullshit answers. I received a 100 on this test. He didn't even bother to look at the answers. You should of read some of the answers I wrote they were ridiculous. Why can't the teachers just say read the damn chapters and have the students take a challenging test? Do you guys think I should talk to the principal about this situation, I mean I don't mind getting all 100's but this is not right. I have the highest grade in the class, but only because I figured out at the beginning of the year he doesn’t even look at answers.

 

Just let me point out that this is a CORE class needed to get a high school diploma. My other classes are even worse. I have no idea about how other schools are run, but this one disgusts me. What should I do?

[dluther]

Most teachers in my school do the same thing... though it's not right, I'm going to talk to my principal too.

[spacemanspiff]

because in our public school systems, teacher's are teaching to the lowest of the class

 

actually that was at a fancy ass preppy private school. but i think it was pretty much what you were talking about.

 

makes me wish i was home schooled.

[Lauren]

i quite agree with what kylon says. I am still at school and it is very frustrating having to learn things that have absolutely no relevance to my life whatsoever. School limits one's ability in aspects such as exploring life itself. Its all very well learning hard facts, but what about extending our minds and just be given the neccessary tools to learn things on our own. We need to be able to expand our vision, explore the unanwered and find the questions to the answers that even some of the most intellegent people cannot answer. Certain theories are important to learn to understand parts of science, biology etc but we education should offer more than that.

[Dave]

but what about extending our minds and just be given the neccessary tools to learn things on our own.

 

I personally feel that at a younger age, say around mid-teens, some people just don't have the desire to go and actually go out and learn things by themselves. The thirst for knowledge, for me, came as we started specialising in subjects when I turned 17, and I knew that really I wanted to do something mathematically orientated.

 

The education system definately has its flaws. I agree to a certain extent with what you're saying; I think it's definately too constrictive and wastes a lot of time in many people's cases. I for one absolutely despised things like religious education, boring it projects, french, etc, and if given the chance, would have dropped them in an instant.

 

However, for the people not quite sure what they want to do when they grow up, specialising too soon is putting quite a lot of pressure on an individual at quite an early age. The problem is inherantly finding a compromise between an education that is very specific and extremely flexible in choices and one which is more rigid and allows for less specialization at an early age.

 

I do believe that people should be given a choice as to what they want to do at an earlier age. I also believe that people need the core skills of English (or a primary language used in the country of origin), numeracy, and IT. However, things like a second language, philosophy, etc are for some people a waste of space and they definately shouldn't be inflicted on those that don't want to learn them.

[Rasori]

I say BRING ON THE INDEPENDENT STUDY PROJECTS... at least we get to CHOOSE what we want to do with those.

 

My personal... peeve... is writing prompts. Yeah, someday we'll likely have to write what we don't want to, but we won't be required to do it in an hour and in some cases won't be required to at all. It's nowhere near a good judgement of how well we write- I recently had to make a portfolio for an advanced English course and I made sure I included my own work, not just stuff I was forced to do. If they hadn't left the option, I'd never make it in. At least now I have a chance.

 

I think a school day should consist of a teacher telling us what we need to know (not in notes, but generally, such as how to do scientific notation or something) by the end of the day. After that, we should spend time on the computer (which, this is the computer age, we should USE them), or in the book, and research the subject. For homework, we then have to create a presentation for each class explaining what we've learned. It's more work, yes, but it allows us to work at our own pace (and it's really frustrating when you've finished the page and the rest of the class is on the first paragraph) and allows us more creativity- do we write an essay, and if so what way do we write it, expository, persuasive? Do we maybe write a story- science is learning about hurricanes, why not write a (realistic) story about a person stuck in a hurricane? Maybe make graphs for math in excel, make powerpoint presentations about a certain book.

 

Dunno, just an idea.

[psi20]

I agree with almost everything written here. I have 7 periods a day. Let's see... I believe I only benefit from like 3 of those classes, P.E., biology, and math. Everything else is a waste. Dude, it is said I have to take certain classes, like foreign language, to get into universities. My classes mostly suck. No creativity involved. PE I like because it's the only time I get to get out and be more active. Biology and math are just fun subjects. In biology, we get to do labs, which is fun. My math teacher is one of the smartest people I know. In the last few weeks, he brought in some home-made stuff like the Van de Graff and a tesla coil. Today, he made some lasers that were linked to a radio to make a laser light show on the wall while music was going. It was pretty cool.

 

Yeah, but I wish I could drop the other 4 classes and get other classes I like.

 

I also think that people shouldn't be tested with STAR's and SAT's and stuff. That's just too strict. My math teacher constructed his lessons based on the SAT's and testing. If we didn't have those tests, my math teacher would probably teach more stuff and bring in more home-made gadgets. Those tests are a waste of time and effort, not to mention money. Tons of paper are wasted on tests, tests that determine whether or not you go into a college of your choice. It seems that colleges aren't looking at creativity if they're looking at your test scores.

 

I've had the luck to have every teacher from 5th grade up actually read and look at my work to grade it. Even so, school is still very easy. I don't try and still get straight A's. One of my friends try so hard and can't pass a class.

 

I say there has to be a reform on testing.

 

But what I'm picturing in my head is that there will be some people who don't want to do anything at all, just play games all day.

[Dave]

In the UK, we get tested in years 2, 6, 9, 10, 11, 12 and 13. For people who aren't from the UK, year 2 equates to 6-7 year olds (I think).

[J'Dona]

actually that was at a fancy ass preppy private school. but i think it was pretty much what you were talking about.

 

makes me wish i was home schooled.

I was homeschooled actually... and it helped, I can tell you.

 

EDIT: Snipped a large part that didn't add anything to the thread...

 

Homeschooling helps, because you're allowed to go at your own level. I don't think I would have gained anything more if I'd stayed in any longer, but I can safely say that if I'd been in normal school I'd have been miserable, as I am now for having blown my lead on extra A-Levels and soon a gap year If you have kids, try to homeschool them. As long as they get the social mixing they'll turn out fine, better than fine. Homeschooling is on the rise and governments are generally taking them more seriously... it worked for me.

 

It's true that creativity is somewhat supressed (if that's not too strong a word) in the normal education system. Also, since there's so much to learn and they want everyone to start out broad so that they can choose what they want to do (even if they already know), everyone's made to do a large splice of subjects. I know this sounds a little off-topic, but memory also suffers from the current system; the mnemonic systems that most of the "perfect" memorisers use require lots of imagination and association, which are discraded in a standardised system. If someone has an inquisitive mind and is gifted in a particular field, they are quite often forced into boring, standardised material from a range of subjects they mostly hate, and the would-be top student remains at everyone elses level. This is one of the areas where homeschool helps; because you can concetrate more on certain fields, without the near-useless essays that the system requires and parental encouragement, homeschooled students can do better than not. It just depends on the parent in that respect. Maybe I'm just biased because I was homeschooled myself, but it makes sense, doesn't it?

 

 

Oh, and I went to a private school for a while too, when I was about 4. I pretty much got expelled... for helping the other students. :/ When I finished something I'd help the ones who might still be working on it, and after the management changed they cracked down on elements such as myself. Not that I'm unhappy; they made us sing "Baby Beluga" every... day...

[felinlasv]

Where I live, you can get in every university you want, as long of course as you've finished your high school. I really think the american system sucks. It's overexpensive and you have to be allowed to enter a university. This is a serious form of racism. Just imagine, you and your best friend both have excellent grades (since you have to get in college), but your dads work doesn't pay as well as the work your friends dad does so he can go to college but you can't afford it.

 

This is pure racism, on top of that you have to get really good grades to get into a college which most of the time doesn't even offer a decent education. I have a cousin that goes to college in california and his university costs his dad massive amounts of money and what and how they teach my cousin is definitely not worth the money they ask.

 

I'd like to hear some reactions from people that go to college in the USA (other people are welcome too ofcourse)

[Glider]

Explain exactly how this is racism?

 

What you describe has nothing to do with race, it has to do with ability to pay.

[felinlasv]

True, my mistake.

What I'm trying to say is that everybody should have acces to a good education. One should not be denied acces to education because his (or her) parents don't make enough money.

[Glider]

I agree.

[iglak]

although in the USA there are THOUSANDS of scholorships that WANT to be given out. all one needs to do is find that special book of "1001 scholorships that are easy to get"... (yes, they exist). plenty of scholorships aren't ever given out, and a third of the scholorships only require you to be either poor, female, or a minority, then you go in for an interview or write a 100 word essay about whatever they ask and you pretty much automatically get the scholorship...

 

but about the education system in highschool... it sucks.

there is no motivation to learn and become intelligent and creative, and there is no motivation to be healthy. grades do not reflect intelligence, they have very little to do with intelligence. grades reflect how hard you work... bad system.

 

lucky for me i go to a school where 90% of the teachers just love teaching. they try to teach us creativity and intelligence while also making us work hard for the grades (homework takes so much time out of my life...)

[galaxygirl]

As a newcomer to SFN, I’ll start off by sharing my views on education:

 

Here in Massachusetts, every public school student is required to take the MCAS exam multiple times throughout their elementary, middle, and high school career. Weeks before these tests, teachers take time away from class to “prepare” students for these tests. This preparation consists of taking practice tests and giving methods of guessing answers to questions that are likely to come up. This not only takes time from actual learning, but it also encourages students to only focus on test content, rather than learned information as a whole. For instance, a teacher may have his or her students read a whole unit in a textbook, but tell them exactly what they need to study for the unit test. Because of this, students only study what’s required and don’t focus on other essential information.

 

Another problem with local school systems are budget cuts. Towns are spending millions of dollars on new schools, resulting in less money for education and extracurricular activities. Many teachers are laid off, making larger classes (some have gotten to over 30 students per one teacher). Because of the large classes, teachers are often forced to use pre written lessons that were made to focus on the class as a whole, not the needs/interests of the individual students. These lessons are not only uninteresting, but they don’t provide the creativity or motivation that students these days need.

[NavajoEverclear]

felinlasiv--- where do you live? Cause i need to move there.

 

The system forkin sucks, it is maintained by mentally limited arrogant brutes, and everyone else has to compromise to fit into their stupid rules. Grades are the stupidest things invented---- that is if the goal is to learn. Anyone who denies this is lying to themselves- no other possibility, even stupid people could see how stupid grades are, except that stupid people the tendancy to be very shallow and good at decieving themselves in order to maintain security or something. Excuse me, that last comment was just an ill-tempered rant and off subject.

 

Schools should incorporate the concept of evolution: allow the freedom of each individual to find their own niche (or niches). Their only intervention should be to provide the resources available to help students become as efficient as possible in their development of their chosen skills. I do believe in the need of some structure. But that would be variable in different schools and in all cases the rules would be simple and straightforward, with real reasons. Any schools that hold onto stupid bueracratic systems of governent will be boycotted and eventually go extinct. That is evolution, and its the only way we'll survive. The current system is a damper of evolution--- limit the possiblility for growht by limiting resources for actual learning and distracting pupils with standardized tests. As said in Farenheit 451, the American way is designed to follow our founding principle, with one alteration : All men are not born equal, but made equal.---- something like that.

 

It's a lukewarm, bland existence we're heading in. But i have faith that the next peak of punctuated equilibrium in human evolution (at least in the sense of social organization) is soon at hand.

[psi20]

I agree, we should just dump the grade idea altogether. Some of my friends are worried their grades drop down and others are worried that they won't do well on the SAT's and stuff. I'm worried that I won't be able to compete in the world of math and physics if English classes are going to get in the way.

 

Some people have already mentioned this in the thread. But I still can't believe you must take certain classes in order to be able to go on to the next grade. It's just a constraint.