"loop" logic

[Strange]

 

What was baseless and what do you mean by base ?

 

There is no evidence provided to support the claim "all of us are linked with God". (Leaving aside the question as to whether your God, or any other God, exists.)

 

What is 'apparently untrue' and how are you qualified to state that ?

 

As there is at least one person in this discussion who is not "linked to God" it is obvious the claim is untrue.

 

Why you call it 'assertion' and what you call your own statements ?

 

An assertion is a statement made which is not supported by logic or evidence.

 

Explanation about what and justification about what exactly - Please specify

 

You might want to justify any statement involving God by providing a reason why I (or anyone else) should take his existence for granted.

You might want to explain what you mean by "linked with" in this context.

You might want to provide evidence that this is true for "all" people.

 

Why does is irritate you whether I State, Assert or Exclaim ?

 

It doesn't irritate me. Why do you think it does? Do you think that anyone who disagrees with you must be irritated?

 

I just think it is funny that you tell someone else not to get worked up when you have used so many exclamation marks (which are usually used to indicate some level of emotional involvement).

Edited September 8, 2015 by Strange

[Commander]

 

There is no evidence provided to support the claim "all of us are linked with God". (Leaving aside the question as to whether your God, or any other God, exists.)

 

 

As there is at least one person in this discussion who is not "linked to God" it is obvious the claim is untrue.

 

 

An assertion is a statement made which is not supported by logic or evidence.

 

 

You might want to justify any statement involving God by providing a reason why I (or anyone else) should take his existence for granted.

You might want to explain what you mean by "linked with" in this context.

You might want to provide evidence that this is true for "all" people.

 

 

It doesn't irritate me. Why do you think it does? Do you think that anyone who disagrees with you must be irritated?

 

I just think it is funny that you tell someone else not to get worked up when you have used so many exclamation marks (which are usually used to indicate some level of emotional involvement).

 

You were exclaiming about my using exclamation symbols and pointing out as if it is a joke while I never indulged in taking such shots at your way of writing etc. And therefore I did think that it irritated you.

 

Leaving that aside, why I think that everyone is linked with God [The Controller of Everything which You and I are unable to Rule Over] is because JUST FOR OUR LIVING we need to breathe the AIR JUST AS FREELY PROVIDED BY GOD and have NO OPTION or ALTERNATIVE FOR THIS AT PRESENT !

 

THAT ALONE PROVES TO ME THAT I HAVE NO RIGHT TO PONTIFICATE AS AN ALL POWERFUL SCIENTIST !

 

And disregard the existence of a CREATOR AND SUPER POWER whom I will Continue to SEEK !

 

You may be strange with this MY WAY OF THINKING and you have EVERY RIGHT TO BE SO : I concede.

 

I will be very Glad IF YOU PROVE TO ME THAT YOU ARE ONLY RIGHT and I am certainly wrong !

 

Awaiting your Evidences and Proofs ! [another ! unfortunately]

 

Regards Always

[Strange]

Leaving that aside, why I think that everyone is linked with God [The Controller of Everything which You and I are unable to Rule Over] is because JUST FOR OUR LIVING we need to breathe the AIR JUST AS FREELY PROVIDED BY GOD and have NO OPTION or ALTERNATIVE FOR THIS AT PRESENT !

 

I see no connection between the fact we breath air and your belief in God. I can breath equally well in a world without God.

 

 

I will be very Glad IF YOU PROVE TO ME THAT YOU ARE ONLY RIGHT and I am certainly wrong !

 

You are the one making claims, so it is up to you to support them. I am only pointing out that your claims are baseless; just your personal opinion presented as fact. And at least some of them are wrong.

 

For example, you are certainly wrong that we are "all linked with God".

You have moved the thread on from "loop logic" to "no logic", well done!

[Commander]

 

I see no connection between the fact we breath air and your belief in God. I can breath equally well in a world without God.

 

 

You are the one making claims, so it is up to you to support them. I am only pointing out that your claims are baseless; just your personal opinion presented as fact. And at least some of them are wrong.

 

For example, you are certainly wrong that we are "all linked with God".

You have moved the thread on from "loop logic" to "no logic", well done!

 

I had posted the following in another thread which you had read too and I give it here as additional info as to why You are a BREATHER AND IN THE PROCESS A BELIEVER IN THE MERCIES OF GOD the PROVIDER !

 

You are showing tremendous FAITH whether you belleive or not :

 

 

We have made some Progress in Controlling WHAT WE EAT [safe Food] and WHAT WE DRINK [safe Water - We simply don't drink from a Pool say Swimming Pool with visible Contamination unlike other Animals] and We fight Natural Disasters and Forces AS BEST AS WE COULD !

However WE ALL STILL BREATHE THE AMBIENT AIR [ without any Question or asking for evidence ] even though we can see right in front of us ALL POSSIBLE CONTAMINATION , even Animals Frolicking and doing all sorts of things INTO THE SAME AMBIENT AIR and WITH NO FEAR OR FAVOUR we SIMPLY BREATHE THAT AIR and not bother about the Viruses and Harmful Bacteria and Matter which might be there ! This seems to be our ACCEPTED FREEDOM OF LIFE in this Universe. There may be Space Suits in Space explorations and Air Purifiers for some but ALL OF US INCLUDING SCIENTISTS [without caring to ensure evidence of total safety] just simply breathe !

Therefore WE ALL SIMPLY LIVE BY FAITH !

[Strange]

I had posted the following in another thread which you had read too and I give it here as additional info as to why You are a BREATHER AND IN THE PROCESS A BELIEVER IN THE MERCIES OF GOD the PROVIDER !

 

You have provided no reason why I should think that is true. It appears to be your personal opinion, unsupported by any evidence or logic. As such, it can be safely ignored.

 

 

You are showing tremendous FAITH whether you belleive or not :

 

As breathing is not a choice, I don't see where faith comes into it. But even if it were a choice, I don't see where faith comes into it. You are just making stuff up.

Edited September 8, 2015 by Strange

[DevilSolution]

Faith, almost by definition, is a position held absent and often even in direct opposition to logic and evidence. If a quality argument can successful alter the position of a faithful person, then that person could not have been accurately described as "faithful" in the first place. Faith is anathema to critical thinking and progress and should be abandoned as an acceptable approach to our modern world.

I disagree, to abandon faith for critical thinking can lead to conclusions that become self fullfilling prophecies. For examppe i have faith in human kind and have faith that as a species we have the capabillity to overcome any situation. However under the current political climate most people i speak to use "critical thinking" to come to the conclusion human kind is set to destroy itself. Logically i cant argue otherwise, we are hard wired with particular triats that lead to this conclusion, especially given the current political climate (exponential breading, nuclear war, conflicting religious ideology, monetary collapse etc). However i still have faith in humanity and its abillity to evolve, my faith may be unfounded but without that (and others who agree) we will inevitably fullfill the self fullfilling prophecy of the masses "critical thinking" and their eventual conclusion.

 

On a completely non religious base faith should not be abandonded because the odds are stacked against you.

[Ten oz]

I disagree, to abandon faith for critical thinking can lead to conclusions that become self fullfilling prophecies. For examppe i have faith in human kind and have faith that as a species we have the capabillity to overcome any situation. However under the current political climate most people i speak to use "critical thinking" to come to the conclusion human kind is set to destroy itself. Logically i cant argue otherwise, we are hard wired with particular triats that lead to this conclusion, especially given the current political climate (exponential breading, nuclear war, conflicting religious ideology, monetary collapse etc). However i still have faith in humanity and its abillity to evolve, my faith may be unfounded but without that (and others who agree) we will inevitably fullfill the self fullfilling prophecy of the masses "critical thinking" and their eventual conclusion.

 

On a completely non religious base faith should not be abandonded because the odds are stacked against you.

So because your more optimistic toward speculation about the future, which none of us will live to see, faith is a good thing? Logic and critical thinking have nothing to do with the optimism faith provides you. Optimism is a feeling one has and not a process or means by which the nature world functions.

[Delta1212]

People who think that humanity is set to destroy itself are basing that on just about as an emotional response as your optimistic take is. It's certainly not critical thinking.

 

To start with the variables are multitudinous, and we don't even have accurate data for most of the ones that would allow us to make a grand prediction like that. We might have more or less for any given problem that humanity is facing, and we might be more or less likely to solve any one specific problem, but even the problems we are less likely to solve wouldn't result in the end of humanity, at least in the relatively foreseeable future.

 

Even climate change. Failure to act on that is very likely to cause quite a lot of problems, but it's unlikely to wipe out humanity.

 

The things that could potentially kill us off rather than simply killing quite a lot of people and making everyone else less comfortable tend to be out of our direct control. Space rocks, the sun, heat death of the universe.

 

Humanity will die off eventually, but when we go it will either be because of something really big or because of a sustained series of slightly smaller things that make us more and more vulnerable.

 

Neither of those is reasonably predictable at the present time unless you think humanity is going to fail to address every single serious problem it currently faces to the point that they all kill us in tandem. And I don't think a belief that that is likely is especially based in critical thinking.

 

Most likely, we'll screw w bunch of things up before ultimately learning how to fix what we can and live with what we can't.

[iNow]

Faith is a gold-plated excuse to stop thinking. Nice points in this video by Dan Dannett.

 

[RyGuyFly]

Honestly I feel this banter is not relevant to my original post. I feel it is not productive. The subject was simply the terminology for the "loop logic" which I have discovered is called circular reasoning.

 

Some have pointed out that faith is essentially the same thing as circular reasoning. I feel many times faith is indeed the product of circular reasoning. However according to the text book definition, faith is simply a total trust or confidence in something. I suppose one could argue that putting total trust in anything is poor judgment. On the other hand it would appear we all tend to put total trust into certain things some of the time.

 

I feel circular reasoning is poor logic and, obviously, is often employed by humans. My experience has been that It is used by both people of religious and non-religious back grounds. It would even appear that both the educated and the uneducated can fall into its grasp.

Edited September 9, 2015 by RyGuyFly

[Strange]

Some have pointed out that faith is essentially the same thing as circular reasoning.

 

I don't think that. But a few people do resort to circular reasoning to try and justify their beliefs (which shouldn't be, and isn't, necessary - a belief is a belief).

 

I feel circular reasoning is poor logic and, obviously, is often employed by humans. My experience has been that It is used by both people of religious and non-religious back grounds. It would even appear that both the educated and the uneducated can fall into its grasp.

 

Absolutely. Even intelligent and non-religious people can believe irrational things that they feel the need to justify. In fact, judging by some of the bizarre opinions of a few Nobel Prize winners, one might be tempted to think that the more intelligent you are the more outlandish your beliefs might be!

Edited September 9, 2015 by Strange

[Delta1212]

 

I don't think that. But a few people do resort to circular reasoning to try and justify their beliefs (which shouldn't be, and isn't, necessary - a belief is a belief).

 

 

Absolutely. Even intelligent and non-religious people can believe irrational things that they feel the need to justify. In fact, judging by some of the bizarre opinions of a few Nobel Prize winners, one might be tempted to think that the more intelligent you are the more outlandish your beliefs might be!

I don't think the outlandishness of one's beliefs is necessarily correlated with intelligence, but the complexity of the justification for those outlandish beliefs probably is.

[Strange]

I don't think the outlandishness of one's beliefs is necessarily correlated with intelligence

 

Nor do I really, I suspect it is more that the odd beliefs of Nobel Prize winners (or other prominent people) are more likely to be noted.