seriously disabled Posted September 7, 2015 Posted September 7, 2015 Why do some people experience very extreme pain after getting injured while other people, the vast majority in fact, experience little to tolerable pain after an injury?
fiveworlds Posted September 7, 2015 Posted September 7, 2015 Can you elaborate on the type of injury? I know some spinal cord injuries can be extremely painful if bone is rubbing off nerves.
Phi for All Posted September 8, 2015 Posted September 8, 2015 Why do some people experience very extreme pain after getting injured while other people, the vast majority in fact, experience little to tolerable pain after an injury? Medication is certainly one answer. Also differences in physiology. Psychologically, I think people can focus on pain and make it seem more intense and unbearable while others distract themselves from it and don't notice it as much. Sort of a nebulous premise, with some trivially false assumptions (the vast majority feel little to tolerable pain after an injury?!). You need to define injury. I would imagine different injuries in different areas cause different kinds of pain for different people. You aren't going to get any productive answers with those parameters. Anecdotally, I had two cracked ribs once, and they gave me little pain at all until I tried to button my pants or shirt, and then it was enough to drop me to my knees. Pulling the edges of the clothing together towards the middle made those ribs really scream.
CPG Posted September 21, 2015 Posted September 21, 2015 (edited) Pain can be a tricky thing to talk about, and a more focused question could facilitate a better discussion. A few considerations to move things along in a productive direction: 1) When you say the vast majority experience little to tolerable levels of pain, it sounds as if you have a specific type of injury in mind or at least would be able to provide an example. The type of injury, and to what part of the body, could be very useful as a starting place because then we could discuss the relevant neuroanatomical structures and functional networks involved in concrete terms. We should also be very deliberate with our language in discussing nociception (sensory signals encoding information about harmful stimuli coming from the periphery), as opposed to the conscious perception of pain and the unpleasant subjective experience that occurs when these signals are received and processed in the brain. 2) Are we talking about acute pain at the moment of injury and the immediate aftermath, or longer term pain such as chronic and persistent pain during healing and recovery (or even beyond)? The considerations associated with these two are quite different. 3) "Why" questions are notoriously difficult to answer. I have assumed you're looking for an explanation along the lines of a physiological contrast between a person who experiences a lot of pain and one who doesn't. But at the same time your question could also be interpreted as more ontological; What adaptive value and evolutionary consequences are associated with various types of nociception and/or pain - and could that explain the population-level variability that we observe? 4) I'm also curious whether you're describing a spectrum of pain that serves a purpose, or if your "extreme pain" case is really more of a pathology. When I say "purpose" I'm referring to the instructive and even punishing aspect of pain that can be useful if it alters your behavior to avoid repeating or exacerbating tissue damage. Edited September 21, 2015 by CPG 1
seriously disabled Posted October 2, 2015 Author Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) Most of what they teach in biology and genetics is actually pseudoscience. Classical electromagnetism, thermodynamics, statistical mechanics, quantum mechanics and quantum field theory pretty much contradict what is taught is biology and genetics. I believe that the human body was actually designed by some higher force and that consciousness was also designed by some higher force. If some higher force actually engineered the human body and human consciousness then this could definitely explain why the vast majority of people have very high pain tolerance and different reactions to pain than the very big minority. Edited October 2, 2015 by seriously disabled -8
Phi for All Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 Most of what they teach in biology and genetics is actually pseudoscience. Classical electromagnetism, thermodynamics, statistical mechanics, quantum mechanics and quantum field theory pretty much contradict what is taught is biology and genetics. I believe that the human body was actually designed by some higher force and that consciousness was also designed by some higher force. If some higher force actually engineered the human body and human consciousness then this could definitely explain why the vast majority of people have very high pain tolerance and different reactions to pain than the very big minority. Hold on, here. You can't be saying that you're tossing out modern biology in favor of some supernatural designer who has it out for you for some unfathomable reason. You're not explaining ANYTHING with this stance. What's worse is you're creating a whole order of magnitude more questions by introducing the supernatural, questions that science can't help with. I know you're smarter than this. But if you want to keep wasting your mind on wishes and guesses, I'm going to ask that this thread be moved out of mainstream science. 3
John Cuthber Posted October 3, 2015 Posted October 3, 2015 If some higher force actually engineered the human body and human consciousness then this could definitely explain why the vast majority of people have very high pain tolerance and different reactions to pain than the very big minority. However in reality, pain perception isn't bimodally distributed as you suggest. This "magical" split into two groups isn't real. If it was then it would be obvious inevery study on pain and painkillers- yet it never gets a mention in those studies Now here's an interesting thought. If you think that this "higher being" implies that there must be two sorts of people- based on pain perception, and those two sorts of people don't actually exist, then you have shown that this "higher power" does not exist.
CPG Posted October 4, 2015 Posted October 4, 2015 (edited) Most of what they teach in biology and genetics is actually pseudoscience. Classical electromagnetism, thermodynamics, statistical mechanics, quantum mechanics and quantum field theory pretty much contradict what is taught is biology and genetics. I believe that the human body was actually designed by some higher force and that consciousness was also designed by some higher force. If some higher force actually engineered the human body and human consciousness then this could definitely explain why the vast majority of people have very high pain tolerance and different reactions to pain than the very big minority. That's disappointing. I had hoped the responses to the OP would start a nice scientific discussion. The feedback from the initial question seems to have been completely ignored. I'm fairly open to wherever discussions progress. Non-sequiturs aside, some sort of reasoning should be provided to support the claims in sentences 1,2, and 4. Edited October 4, 2015 by CPG 1
seriously disabled Posted October 26, 2015 Author Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) Still isn't it possible that some higher physical entity (perhaps an evil entity) engineered humans making some people stronger and more resistant to pain after an injury? I know it contradicts what is being taught in evolution, genetics, and biochemistry but could it be true that humans have been engineered by someone or something higher? If this is true then I think it pretty much contradicts Darwin's theory of evolution and also the theory of natural selection. Edited October 26, 2015 by seriously disabled -3
michel123456 Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 If this is true then I think it pretty much contradicts Darwin's theory of evolution and also the theory of natural selection. And your conclusion is....?
seriously disabled Posted October 27, 2015 Author Posted October 27, 2015 I have no conclusion. I just don't know At this point we just don't know for sure if the theory of evolution is completely true or if needs to be corrected and updated when new discoveries will be presented.
CharonY Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 A) Evolutionary theory as other scientific theories are constantly expanded, revised and refined. B) It has nothing to do with your arguments and certainly does not require the presence of some ominous unknown entity. There does not seem to be a lot of grounds for a scientific discussion here.
Phi for All Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 At this point we just don't know for sure if the theory of evolution is completely true or if needs to be corrected and updated when new discoveries will be presented. YOU don't know for sure. Those who have studied this extensively know that the Theory of Evolution is our best current explanation for the development of Earth's diverse species. It's constantly corrected and updated. This is how science works, and you should know that by now. Thousands of smart people sharing knowledge globally, checking, rechecking, testing, measuring. Like evolution, it's an ongoing process. Unlike evolution, science seems to be geared towards improvement.
Alisa-cusabio Posted October 29, 2015 Posted October 29, 2015 Man and woman aslo have diffirent pain threshold. But I don't know who have a higher threshold.
seriously disabled Posted November 15, 2015 Author Posted November 15, 2015 (edited) Biology is rapidly becoming a pseudoscience. I experience much more pain after I get injured than other people which very much contradicts what they teach in biology. I mean why is one person so much different in pain perception than the rest of the people? As usual, mainstream science cannot explain this. Edited November 15, 2015 by seriously disabled -4
J.C.MacSwell Posted November 15, 2015 Posted November 15, 2015 Most of what they teach in biology and genetics is actually pseudoscience. Classical electromagnetism, thermodynamics, statistical mechanics, quantum mechanics and quantum field theory pretty much contradict what is taught is biology and genetics. I believe that the human body was actually designed by some higher force and that consciousness was also designed by some higher force. If some higher force actually engineered the human body and human consciousness then this could definitely explain why the vast majority of people have very high pain tolerance and different reactions to pain than the very big minority. …and, presumably, that higher force was designed by an even higher force… ...turtles all the way down!
CharonY Posted November 15, 2015 Posted November 15, 2015 Biology is rapidly becoming a pseudoscience. I experience much more pain after I get injured than other people which very much contradicts what they teach in biology. I mean why is one person so much different in pain perception than the rest of the people? As usual, mainstream science cannot explain this. There is quite a lot out there on the psychology and neurophysiology of pain perception. But of course one would need to read up on it, instead of making things up.
TheGeckomancer Posted December 10, 2015 Posted December 10, 2015 Nothing about you experiencing more pain makes biology a pseudoscience. I am sorry that you are in pain but that is a really bad statement to make for a lot of reasons. Pain is very subjective. I have usually been considered tougher than other people in my life. And tolerance levels change completely. When I was in the the army, I was suffering from a severe migraine from severe dehydration, I checked into the troop medical center and they asked me on the pain scale where I was. I rated that an 8 out 10, at the time for me it was. I have experienced MUCH worse pain since then. That would rate a 5 on my scale now. I broke my ankle one time, had no medical insurance and just a job I HAD to show up for. I broke it on one of my fridays after work. I recuperated for the weekend, and went back to pushing carts at Albertsons on my monday. It was excruciating, but it totally changed my perspective on pain. Over the weekend I would have put that at a 9, no way no how was I doing anything but trying not to scream. But when necessity reared it's ugly head I realized I was at more of a 7. Pain is VERY subjective. You may just think you are experiencing more pain.
Phi for All Posted December 10, 2015 Posted December 10, 2015 Biology is rapidly becoming a pseudoscience. I experience much more pain after I get injured than other people which very much contradicts what they teach in biology. I mean why is one person so much different in pain perception than the rest of the people? As usual, mainstream science cannot explain this. Can I ask the thread for a full-stop reconsideration here? The Path of Let's Be Reasonable seems to be blocked by the felled Tree of Emotional Certainty. Take a breath and let's look at this. We have a situation where someone is in extreme pain. Reason is being forced aside in favor of emotion. I think even seriously disabled will admit that pain + frustration + stress + anger aren't the best conditions for rational thinking. For most people, in my personal experience, the more you emotionally fixate on pain, the worse it is. I know the opposite is true. How many times have you been in pain, and something distracted you for a while and you forgot about it, only to have it come back when you remember? Also, from my personal experience, there are many people who struggle with executive functions because they have sensory problems of one kind or another. These folks often feel like events are coming at them too fast, they're uncentered because the light is too bright, or the music too loud, or the pain too distracting. They have to learn to deal with the sensory issues first, then when they're calm, they can much more easily tackle the executive functions and decisions. I learned this from looking into Asperger's Syndrome. The physiology is pretty clear; people are different. The cocktail of chemicals that keep life going are very specific in some crucial areas, but for the most part, there are a lot of variations that don't threaten survival. How our bodies deal with pain is influenced by a lot of other factors. So perhaps (and PLEASE take this as a suggestion to educate yourself about this rather than any kind of medical advice) you should look into ways to mentally secure yourself from the more obvious stresses (you're really smart, there are folks out there who care about you a great deal, you're capable of things few people are), before tackling how you deal with pain rationally.
seriously disabled Posted December 30, 2015 Author Posted December 30, 2015 Can I ask the thread for a full-stop reconsideration here? The Path of Let's Be Reasonable seems to be blocked by the felled Tree of Emotional Certainty. Take a breath and let's look at this. We have a situation where someone is in extreme pain. Reason is being forced aside in favor of emotion. I think even seriously disabled will admit that pain + frustration + stress + anger aren't the best conditions for rational thinking. Most of what you wrote there is bullshit in my opinion. Pain has nothing to do with stress and emotions. It is a completely physical phenomenon which modern biology cannot yet explain. -4
Strange Posted December 30, 2015 Posted December 30, 2015 Most of what you wrote there is bullshit in my opinion. Pain has nothing to do with stress and emotions. It is a completely physical phenomenon which modern biology cannot yet explain. You seem to have missed the point which, as I understand it, was that the combination of several factors make it harder to remain rational. Nothing was said about any other connection between the factors. But, of course, not all pain is purely physical. There is often a psychological component as well.
Phi for All Posted December 30, 2015 Posted December 30, 2015 Most of what you wrote there is bullshit in my opinion. Pain has nothing to do with stress and emotions. It is a completely physical phenomenon which modern biology cannot yet explain. I'm sorry you chose to react to the bullshit rather than to the legitimate questions I asked. Have you ever been distracted from the pain by something that takes your full attention, only to have the pain return when you think about it again? That's not fully physiological, is it? Two questions. Please answer.
seriously disabled Posted December 30, 2015 Author Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) I'm sorry you chose to react to the bullshit rather than to the legitimate questions I asked. Have you ever been distracted from the pain by something that takes your full attention, only to have the pain eturn when you think about it again? That's not fully physiological, is it? To both of these questions: Never happened to me before. Even when I don't think about the pain or at least when I try not to think about it, the pain is still there therefore I think that in my case it's completely physiological. Edited December 30, 2015 by seriously disabled
Phi for All Posted December 30, 2015 Posted December 30, 2015 To both of these questions: Never happened to me before. Even when I don't think about the pain or at least when I try not to think about it, the pain is still there therefore I think that in my case it's completely physiological. Then you must be unique (I think that's what you wanted to hear; does that make it bullshit too?). In my experience, even though pain from an injury doesn't completely go away while recovering, it lessens when you aren't thinking about it. A quick query of friends and family reveals the same, sorry for the anecdotal evidence. Many studies show the brain controls it all. Doesn't it seem reasonable that the brain can affect pain levels? I think it's possible I'm still right, but you're so fixated on some evil higher power who's out to get you, that you never stop thinking about it, and thus you get no benefit from distraction. I'll take you at your word for your observation, but only because I have little choice. My incredulity is based on how untrustworthy anyone's perspective about themselves is. We often wear heavy filters when we look deep inside.
seriously disabled Posted January 12, 2016 Author Posted January 12, 2016 How our bodies deal with pain is influenced by a lot of other factors. So perhaps (and PLEASE take thiss as suggestion to educate yourself about this rather than any kind of medical advice) you should look into ways to mentally secure yourself from the more obvious stresses (you're really smart, there are folks out there who care about you a great deal, you're capable of things few people are), before tackling how you deal with pain rationally. How do you know that there are folks out there who care about me a great deal? That's a lie. In fact the evidence shows that no one really cares about me at all. I'm about to become homeless or in prison because I have no money and nobody really give a shit. In the world we live everyone only cares about himself and his money and nobody cares that there are homeless people like me who are disabled and have nothing to eat and no money for a home and no money for good healthcare.
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