Christianity has done nothing but Damn Humanity.

[Ragnarr Lodbrok]

 

 

The number doesn't matter; what matters is how effective 'they' are at getting the message out. Seems those 3 and 5 reached you and now the rest of us. And after all, Jesus, Mohamed, Buddha, Joseph Smith, Ellen G. White, etcetera each and all were and are one.

Everybody knows about communism too - but very few people support it.

 

Knowing about something is not the same as supporting it.

[puppypower]

Jesus did fulfill the law. It is not binding on Christians precisely because he fulfilled it.

 

He did? I wasn't aware that the end of days had already happened. When, exactly, did the end of the world happen?

 

 

Paul explains that the righteous man shall live by faith, and not by law. The law was for filled, but few people were mature enough to live by faith, so there was a regression back to law. The merger with Rome made this regression stick, because you can't run an empire without rule of law and consequences. The church would change away from faith.

 

 

As an analogy, say we were to get rid of all tax laws in favor of an honors systems for generating revenue for the government. This is similar to the way churches raise revenue. The first thing that comes to most people's mind, would be chaos, as too many people refuse to pay, anything, so revenues fall and government programs are lost.

 

Although such people will appear, there will also be others who are more self driven and fair, who would understand the situation and try to do their share .The majority may not be that self reliant, such that law will appear again. Living by faith is for a chosen few. These were called the children of the promise. Most are the children of the bondwoman; slave to law.

 

As is explained in the New Testament, the problem with law is law was not designed for the righteous man/woman. It was designed for the criminal. Law for all, therefore treats everyone like they are potential criminals, thereby helping to create even more criminals. If you never though about stealing but always share, you have no need for a law that says no stealing. This is law is for thieves who don't work or share. But since the honest man is also under the law, being treated the same as the criminal takes its toll.

 

If you tell a classroom of children they are all stupid enough times, even if they are smart, some of the students will dumb down. Law tells everyone you are a criminal and can't be trusted therefore you need to be told what to do using fear. This generates untrustworthiness expanding the number of criminals.

 

Jesus saw this correlation and realized if you treat all people as trustworthy, by removing law, just like a parent does to a child when they become a teen, they rise to a new level. The earliest Christians ran this experiment. However, those under the law got all freaked out. The leadership projected it own criminal tendencies and saw chaos. With law, most are under the law while the top are above the law. Without law, there is no above and below.

[ydoaPs]

Paul explains that the righteous man shall live by faith, and not by law. The law was for filled[sic], but few people were mature enough to live by faith, so there was a regression back to law. The merger with Rome made this regression stick, because you can't run an empire without rule of law and consequences. The church would change away from faith.

When we're talking about the teachings of Jesus, we should probably listen to Jesus rather than Paul. Jesus was very explicit. He said when he'd fulfill the Law and he that time hasn't come yet. He says he'll fulfill it when heaven and Earth pass away. The OT Law is valid to the letter until the end of the world. You're off the hook after the second coming is over.

 

Think about it, if Jesus already fulfilled everything, what's he coming back to do? Or we can just read what he said, since salvation by works was one of his main points.

 

"Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men. Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed [the righteousness] of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."-Matthew 5:13-20

 

"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it."-Matthew 7:`3-27

 

"Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any [man] will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."-Matthew 16:24-28

 

"And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and [thy] mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go [and] sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come [and] follow me. But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions. Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God."-Matthew 19:16-24

 

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [his] sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed [thee]? or thirsty, and gave [thee] drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took [thee] in? or naked, and clothed [thee]? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done [it] unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done [it] unto me. Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did [it] not to one of the least of these, ye did [it] not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."-Matthew 25:31-46

[John Cuthber]

Jesus did fulfill the law. It is not binding on Christians precisely because he fulfilled it.

What do you think "fulfil" means?

Because the bit about "until all things have come to pass" hasn't happened yet, so the Law hasn't changed a jot.

[Acme]

Before one can engage in hermeneutics one must actually read, and per se know, what is written. On this, atheists, agnostics, Jews and Mormons know more about what is written than Protestants or Catholics.

 

U.S. Religious Knowledge Survey: Executive Summary @ Pew Research

Atheists and agnostics, Jews and Mormons are among the highest-scoring groups on a new survey of religious knowledge, outperforming evangelical Protestants, mainline Protestants and Catholics on questions about the core teachings, history and leading figures of major world religions.

 

On average, Americans correctly answer 16 of the 32 religious knowledge questions on the survey by the Pew Research Centers Forum on Religion & Public Life. Atheists and agnostics average 20.9 correct answers. Jews and Mormons do about as well, averaging 20.5 and 20.3 correct answers, respectively. Protestants as a whole average 16 correct answers; Catholics as a whole, 14.7. Atheists and agnostics, Jews and Mormons perform better than other groups on the survey even after controlling for differing levels of education.

...

Note that this is a 78 page report and I have cited only the 2 opening paragraphs. At the link I gave is a link to the full report in PDF. Feel free to not read it at your leisure and/or at the same pace at which you don't read the Bible or the holy books/writings of other religions.

[Ragnarr Lodbrok]

 

 

What do you think "fulfil" means?

 

The goal of the Old Law was, ultimately, Christ. He fulfilled everything that was written in the Old Testament

 

The Old Law is made of three parts:

1. Ceremonial - this includes all rules relating to worship - dietary laws, prayers, religious festivals etc.

2. Civil - which encompases all rules relating to state - criminal punishments, rules of trade, organization of government.

3. Moral law - law that is in the mind of a believer - mostly the Ten Commandments.

 

Ceremonial law was abrogated because all sacrifices point towards Christ, civil law was abrogated because the "kingdom" that Jesus talked about is no longer the physica Israel but a spiritual kingom in heaven. Moral law was or was not abrogated (there is a controversy)

[ydoaPs]

The goal of the Old Law was, ultimately, Christ. He fulfilled everything that was written in the Old Testament

Except that he didn't. As a matter of eschatological doctrine, he's coming back to fulfill prophecy. As a matter of scriptural fact, he didn't fulfill all of the messianic prophecies. As a matter of what Jesus is recorded as saying, he won't fulfill it until heaven and Earth pass away (if you want a source, see the good chunk of Matthew I quoted for you which you completely ignored).

[John Cuthber]

 

The goal of the Old Law was, ultimately, Christ. He fulfilled everything that was written in the Old Testament

 

The Old Law is made of three parts:

1. Ceremonial - this includes all rules relating to worship - dietary laws, prayers, religious festivals etc.

2. Civil - which encompases all rules relating to state - criminal punishments, rules of trade, organization of government.

3. Moral law - law that is in the mind of a believer - mostly the Ten Commandments.

 

Ceremonial law was abrogated because all sacrifices point towards Christ, civil law was abrogated because the "kingdom" that Jesus talked about is no longer the physica Israel but a spiritual kingom in heaven. Moral law was or was not abrogated (there is a controversy)

That seems to miss the rather obvious point that if "all things came to pass" about 2000 years ago, what are we doing?

Or, to be a little less subtle, it's obviously nonsense, and you know it.

[Ragnarr Lodbrok]

Well, you guys can always write to the Pope (or Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith), the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinopole, the Archbishop of Canterbury or a head of some other Christian church - and argue that all of them have been plain wrong for almost two millenia and only 8 guys in America got it right. Maybe we'll have a revolution in Christianity and Pope Francis will start advocating death penalty for homosexualism? Who knows...?

Edited September 21, 2015 by Ragnarr Lodbrok

[John Cuthber]

I could write to them and ask them to confirm that the early Christian church did impose the death penalty for witchcraft (as an example; another example would be the endorsement of slavery, or "trial" by ordeal). And, in doing so I would prove that Christianity (under Christ and shortly afterwards) did actually follow the OT. And people could deduce from that that our society adopting a more restrained attitude was not due to the teachings of Christ or his church, but in spite of them.

 

But actually I'm just asking you to address the point that has been put to you.

 

if "all things came to pass" about 2000 years ago, what are we doing?

Edited September 21, 2015 by John Cuthber

[ydoaPs]

Well, you guys can always write to the Pope (or Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith), the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinopole, the Archbishop of Canterbury or a head of some other Christian church - and argue that all of them have been plain wrong for almost two millenia and only 8 guys in America got it right. Maybe we'll have a revolution in Christianity and Pope Francis will start advocating death penalty for homosexualism? Who knows...?

So, when considering the teachings of Jesus, you give men using scripture to jockey for power more weight than what Jesus said?

[Ragnarr Lodbrok]

Why reject St. Paul's explanation? St. Paul is the second most important person in Christianity after Jesus and his interpretation of the teachings of Jesus takes precedence over any other interpretation.

[John Cuthber]

You seem to have missed my earlier comment:

But actually I'm just asking you to address the point that has been put to you.

if "all things came to pass" about 2000 years ago, what are we doing?

[ydoaPs]

Why reject St. Paul's explanation?

Because he disagrees with Jesus. You still didn't answer, when exactly, did the heavans and Earth pass away?

[puppypower]

Why reject St. Paul's explanation? St. Paul is the second most important person in Christianity after Jesus and his interpretation of the teachings of Jesus takes precedence over any other interpretation.

 

 

St Paul became a follower after Christ dies on the cross and goes to heaven. When Jesus spoke, certain things had not yet happened, but were still in the future. Paul speaks from a difference place in time. When Jesus was alive Paul was by the book of law. But afterwoods, Pau has a vision because now things have changed.

 

But that aside, if you look at Revelations, the Red Dragon or Satan is thrown from heaven. Revelations was written decades after Jesus died. This passage implies that Satan was still in heaven at the time of Jesus, based on the timeline. In the old testament, Satan was the left hand man of God having evolved from Lucifer. The influence of Satan, can be seem in the book of Job, where Satan has God's ear, and is getting God to follow his council; left hand man.

 

Satan has a connection to knowledge of good and evil; law. Law teaches us the knowledge of good and evil. When Jesus was alive on earth, and Satan was in heaven, law was still in effect due to the position of Satan. Once Satan is thrown out of heaven, knowledge of good and evil or law leaves heaven with him. If law is still in effect, then Satan would still in be heaven.

 

One key place where Jesus for fills law connected to the Old Testament Prophesies is the temptation in the desert, when he first begins his ministry. Satan, who is still in heaven, offers Jesus vast wealth, power and immorality. Satan can give these things, this because he is in charge of the earth, as a middleman from God. Had Jesus accept this, he would have become the Messiah that the Jews had been expecting; a man of power, glory and wealth. The expected Messiah was going got kick butt, But Jesus would have been Satan's subordinate; third in line. By not accepting this offer from Heaven, via Satan, but instead going directly to the big guy; God, Jesus supersedes Satan; Faith supersedes law.

 

When Jesus was killed on the cross, as punishment, he technically became beyond the law. In other words, the death penalty is the most severe law. Once the death penalty has been enforced, there is no need for any other further legal action of lesser value against a dead person. Other lessor laws would be enforced or lumped before the death penalty.

 

After Jesus is killed and the death penalty is enforces, Jesus has no more obligation to law as a man. But since Jesus comes back from the dead, he comes under a legal technicality.There had been a loophole. This loophole allows Jesus to go to Hades to release the captives since, by making the loophole known to them.

 

God had placed a fail safe, when he took away the tree of life; law does not last forever, The moment you eat of tree of knowledge true you shall die; ends but does not perpetuate. This use of the loophole, creates a disturbance in heaven; power struggle. Only faith is connected to the tree of life. This is why Jesus will be there forever at the right hand of God.

Edited September 22, 2015 by puppypower

[Ragnarr Lodbrok]

Because he disagrees with Jesus.

He cannot disagree with Jesus because he was appointed by him as his successor. If Paul disagreed with Christ, it would mean that Christ either lied about himself or was wrong about Paul. Lord Christ could not lie about himself because he was sinless and he could not be wrong about Paul because he "(Christ) was God.

[Strange]

St. Paul is the second most important person in Christianity after Jesus and his interpretation of the teachings of Jesus takes precedence over any other interpretation.

 

What is that claim based on?

He cannot disagree with Jesus because he was appointed by him as his successor.

 

You only have Paul's word for that.

[ydoaPs]

He cannot disagree with Jesus because he was appointed by him as his successor.

Uh, no.

 

If Paul disagreed with Christ, it would mean that Christ either lied about himself or was wrong about Paul.

The part after the comma does not follow from the part before it.

[John Cuthber]

You seem to have missed my earlier comment:

But actually I'm just asking you to address the point that has been put to you.

if "all things came to pass" about 2000 years ago, what are we doing?

[Asimov]

My humble views:Define damned for one thing. Nothing describes any religion in its entirety. If there is a God ,God likely existed before religion. We invented it for our purposes, both good and bad. I doubt God would have any use for it.Misuse of religion is mankind's worst evil and continues to be a bain on humanity.I find all religions silly. Still I know of many who get peace and happiness and strive to be better persons through religion.I dont try to belittle them. Respect them as you would have them respect you. Helps many deal with mortality and gets them through the night.

 

P.S. Never argue religion with a naked man. Learned the hard way at a YMCA locker room.

[puppypower]

He cannot disagree with Jesus because he was appointed by him as his successor. If Paul disagreed with Christ, it would mean that Christ either lied about himself or was wrong about Paul. Lord Christ could not lie about himself because he was sinless and he could not be wrong about Paul because he "(Christ) was God.

 

Paul's biggest contribution was he was allowed to give a presentation to the Roman Senate. Paul was not addressing peasants, but rather he had to address the most powerful men of a world empire who had control over life and death. Paul was very educated for his time and well written and spoken.

 

His thesis to Rome was about how law had been superseded by faith. His lecture did not go over well, since a world wide empire assumed it needed law to maintain order and control. The idea of no law extrapolates in most people's mind, as meaning lawlessness not transcendence. His speech was considered treason and he was put to death. Paul knew this would happen, but he had to do it as a test of faith. A transcript of his speech became the book of Romans.

[puppypower]

Law is a unique form of memory in terms of memory storage in the brain. When the brain creates memory, aspects of the limbic system in the core region of brain will attach an emotional tag, while writing the memory to the cerebral matter. This is useful to animals and natural instinct since looking at something; bone, that is also previously written in memory, will trigger the attached feeling that was written to memory; this feels good, allowing the animal to make a quick gut decision.

 

Law is unique because law is a binary form of memory; Satan is traditionally the binarius. To know a law you need to know what not to do; the evil, as well as the correct and accepted path of action; the good. This allows one to extrapolate new situations. Because these are opposite and mutually exclusive feelings, the result is the brain stores each law in two places; good feeling place and bad feeling place. This is not natural but is manmade. Symbolic places like heaven and hell are a projection of this; all the good feelings are in one place and all the bad feelings are in a different place. If you think of heaven all is nice while hell is a place of fear and pain.

 

The problem with binary memory via law is connected to the way consciousness works. We tend focus on one thing at a time and therefore if we fixate on being good by the law, the dark side of the law remains in memory, but becomes repressed. This is why a person who works hard to be perfect by the law, can becomes unconsciously compelled to sin; fight this each day.

 

Sin taking opportunity through the command produces sin of all kinds. This quote is based on repression of the evil side, written into the brain, due to law; by trying to do only what is considered good by the law. During the Salem witch trials, people felt they were doing good by their law; protecting others. The repression of evil, caused compulsions all the way to murder; sin taking opportunity through the command produced sin of all kinds. The self righteous often get mean due to the repressed dark side of law, allowing the ends to justify the means; sin taking opportunity through the commandments.

 

When Paul talks about doing away with law, this is about getting rid of the binary writing process; one law with both love and fear. One is not getting rid of good and evil, but rather one become more like a natural animal who can react to both love and fear, but in a unified memory way, that does not cause binary memory unconsciousness.

 

An interesting application of this is of the two political parties, the Democrat party creates the most laws and regulations by far. They induce the most writing to binary memory. The liberal brain, in turn, who accepts this easiest, become polarizes so they see the world as polarized into black and white, male and female rich and poor, police and civilians, etc.

 

Since they are good and right, their unconscious projects all the evil on the other sides. They teach tolerance but are intolerant of all the polarized others.The need for relative morality is in response to the constant repression of half the huge binary memory law, and therefore a need to justify constant unconscious compulsion no matter how bizarre.

 

The EPA has 70,000 pages of laws of good and evil. Even with that much "evil" regulated, people project this as the worse of times in terms of pollution. This irrationality is driven by binary unconsciousness. The way this is reversed is by decreasing the polarization of the mind with less and less binary law. One can still achieve the goal of law, but without binary law; through faith.

Edited September 26, 2015 by puppypower

[John Cuthber]

Law is a unique form of memory in terms of memory storage in the brain. ...

Law is unique because law is a binary form of memory;

Unless you can prove that (and I bet you can't), you can not rely on it as the basis for any deductions, so the rest of you post is nonsense.

[Strange]

 

the Democrat party creates the most laws and regulations by far

 

Citation needed.

 

(Although, as John pointed out, as your initial premise is bogus the rest of your argument can be dismissed.)

[puppypower]

 

The hippocampus, for example, is essential for memory function, particularly the transference from short- to long-term memory and control of spatial memory and behaviour. The hippocampus is one of the few areas of the brain capable actually growing new neurons, although this ability is impaired by stress-related glucocorticoids. The amygdala also performs a primary role in the processing and memory of emotional reactions and social and sexual behaviour, as well as regulating the sense of smell.

 

The way you infer that law is stored in two places is based on how memory (long term) is written to the cerebral matter. This requires aspects of the limbic systems, which also assign emotional valance. Law is effective because of the fear of punishment for violation of the law. I don;t drive 100 mph all the time on the highway, because of fear of the law. It is not because my car can't drive that fast or I am afraid to drive that fast. The good side of the law stores a different feeling. If you do good and drive 65 mph, there is no fear, because the other fear side of the law is not conscious, even if implied.

 

This is different from someone, for example, either being afraid of a new idea, or able to embrace it with both hands. Both emotional reactions are possible, but only one or the other emotion will be assigned. If this happens in a group, this may result in two sides forming around the issue; those with the negative association and those with the position association. With law, both feelings are implied inside the person, but only one may be conscious at a time. Either I feel safe, or concerned due to fear of violation.

 

Mixed emotions are similar. I can love and hate by girlfriend. I can think of the things I like about her; good times. I can then switch my mind to things I don't like; bad times. This inner conflict of switching back and forth quickly to merge the feeling takes a lot of energy. So I might settle on one side, and think of the good times and forget about the bad. Unlike time healing all wounds, and the bad time memories with the girlfriend will lessen with time, the law binary is refreshed and not allowed to change.

 

Law is often mistaken for moral law, but actually laws means all law, since all law uses the same binary memory schema of fear and social reward. Law was not written for the honest person, but for the lawless and the sinner. I did not need a law about strip mining because I don't even think of doing that. If there was no law I would act the same. The problem is, since the honest man has to remember all the negative sides of law, to know th law, culture has written evil into the mind of the honest man. Violation will increase.

 

The example of the EPA shows although there are now 70,000 pages of laws to protect the environment and therefore one should logically feel cleaner and safer, many people are convinced things are worse. This is not even logical based on all the extra being done. There was less fear before the EPA was formed as an agency, even though there were hundreds of problems that were not yet addressed. The law is compounding fear in the name of doing good, even in the minds of good people.

The hippocampus is one of the few areas of the brain capable actually growing new neurons, although this ability is impaired by stress-related glucocorticoids.

 

 

This is interesting because the fear side of law creates stress and therefore prevents the hippocampus from forming new neurons, which could potentially alter the valence association of the law memory. Law makes you linear and partially brain dead to where you can;t think but can only react; children of the bondwoman; slaves to law.

Edited September 27, 2015 by puppypower