Pepetual Motion Device that really works

[levelnine]

It is a mere spring that is the perpetual device, along with two motors or generators. The following is the reason why:

 

When the spring is all "cranked" and has become tight, the energy output to a motor or generator is extremely high, rotating at nearly 1000 to 3000 RPM's, depending on how it is geared. So, the tight and constant pressure from the cranked spring is essentially creating abundant energy by rotating a motor or generator while slowly unraveling the spring. Once the spring has become lax and weak, which may take quite some time after all the energy the spring has contributed, we have a second motor, whose job is to crank the spring back to it's small and tightened state. Now this second motor, if you can tell, takes very little energy in tightening the spring all the way back to it's small and tightened state. Given that the first motor or generator has spun for quite a long time and has created quite a lot more energy than it takes to wind it back from a lax state to a small and tightened state, this would mean that the spring is capable of creating more rotational energy (or just energy for that matter), than it requires for the second motor to crank the spring from a lax state to a small and tightened state. Therefore, there is an output of more energy from this system than it's input of energy. Quite a simple perpetual motion device, capable of providing free and everlasting energy, with virtually no smog or pollution.

 

Now, I am not in it for the "money" here, but I would like to be eligible to win the nobel prize for such a discovery. Free energy without pollutants, and perpetual motion elegantly solved, sounds like a big deal, and I hope that it helps the world and all humanity for all the years to come (by that I mean I hope humanity benefits from my perpetual motion energy device forever), and that this is why I am interested in winning the nobel prize. If you are interested in this idea for monetary reasons or philanthropic reasons, and would like to help me achieve my goal of the nobel prize, please contace me in a way that doesn't put you at risk, and we may discuss this further. Thanks. Only serious and professional replies please.

Edited September 10, 2015 by Phi for All
gmail address removed

[Strange]

Given that the first motor or generator has spun for quite a long time and has created quite a lot more energy than it takes to wind it back from a lax state to a small and tightened state

 

This is one of your errors: the energy required to wind the spring cannot be less than is released by unwinding the spring.

 

You have also failed to take into account the inefficiencies in the system (friction, losses in the motor and generator, etc).

 

 

but I would like to be eligible to win the nobel prize for such a discovery

 

You haven't made a discovery.

[levelnine]

the energy released by the spring is definitely greater than the energy required to wind the spring, if you take the rotational energy slowly...

[Strange]

the energy released by the spring is definitely greater than the energy required to wind the spring, if you take the rotational energy slowly...

 

Prove it. Feel free to use mathematics.

Edited September 10, 2015 by Strange

[timo]

I propose you keep your invention secret, build an engine that creates energy without the need for any kind of fuel, and get super-rich commercially exploiting your idea. Of course, given that you posted your idea here already, I also recommend to do so in a secret location in maybe some Chinese mega-town that no one in the west ever heard about (to avoid being sniped by hired hitmen of the oil companies).

[andrewcellini]

try patenting it

 

[Phi for All]

Magic gears and motors are pretty sweet if you can get them on sale. They're even better if you can just imagine them.

 

Not that you'll be able to, but you need some maths to match the conclusion, "Therefore, there is an output of more energy from this system than it's input of energy". There are formulae you can use for this.

[John Cuthber]

the energy released by the spring is definitely greater than the energy required to wind the spring, if you take the rotational energy slowly...

OK, so you don't know what energy is.

Why not look it up on Wiki or something, rather than posting nonsense here?

[Fuzzwood]

the energy released by the spring is definitely greater than the energy required to wind the spring, if you take the rotational energy slowly...

No it isn't.

[imatfaal]

!

Moderator Note

 

Moved to Speculations. This is not science it is fantasy. Please provide either maths behind your idea or experimental information or this thread will be locked.

 

do not respond to this moderation. report this post if you feel it is unfair

 

[Sensei]

Level nine.. ?

Are you scientologist.. ?

Only serious and professional replies please.

 

It's very easy: build one.. If you manage to do so..

[ydoaPs]

the energy released by the spring is definitely greater than the energy required to wind the spring, if you take the rotational energy slowly...

Let's look at the energy. You start with a compressed spring. This spring uncompresses. In uncompressing, it releases energy to the environment in the form of heat. If you don't believe me, grab a paperclip and bend it back and forth a few times. This powers the generator. The generator shaft releases energy to the environment in the form of friction heat and noise. So, the energy going to the electrical generation is lower than what we started with.

 

E₀>E_shaft

 

The electrical generation gives off quite a bit of energy in the form of heat in both ends. The wire connecting the generator to the motor also gives off heat. So, we're down even more.

 

E_shaft>E_{motor input}

 

The electronics of the motor give off heat. The shaft of the motor gives off heat and sound.

 

So, E_{motor input} > E_{spring input}

 

Compressing the spring releases heat. Again, grab a paperclip.

 

E_{spring input} > E_f

 

So, for one cycle, we get E₀ > E_f. The system loses energy in even one cycle.

 

Now, the story gets even worse for your device, because the compression and uncompression of the spring alters the material properties of the spring. The amount of energy in a compressed spring is a function of not only the distance compressed, but also the material properties of the spring. As the spring goes through compression cycles, it becomes less springy and so holds and requires less more energy for the same compression distance.

 

So, not only does the system lose energy every cycle, every cycle makes the spring able to hold less and less more and more energy to power the generator.

 

And that's without the system taking on a load which would remove more energy. So, if you want your machine to *do something*, then you need to account for that loss too.

 

Where are you imagining the extra energy comes from?

Prove it. Feel free to use mathematics.

Actually, it is. The energy to compress a spring, and released by the spring, is given by E=(1/2)kx². The act of compressing and uncompressing changes k. k₁>k₂, so E_{from release}>E_{to recompress}. This, however, means the spring can hold less energy as well. As the spring cycles tend to infinity, k tends to zero. And, if it cycles fast enough, it will melt first.

 

As pointed out by studiot below, k goes up instead of down.

 

EDITS ARE IN ITALICS

[studiot]

 

Actually, it is. The energy to compress a spring, and released by the spring, is given by E=(1/2)kx². The act of compressing and uncompressing changes k. k₁>k₂, so E_{from release}>E_{to recompress}. This, however, means the spring can hold less energy as well. As the spring cycles tend to infinity, k tends to zero. And, if it cycles fast enough, it will melt first.

 

Are you sure you have this the right way round?

 

It seems to be that for both strain hardening and elastic hysteresis

 

https://www.google.co.uk/#q=strain+hardening

 

https://www.google.co.uk/#q=elastic+hysteresis

[ydoaPs]

Are you sure you have this the right way round?

 

It seems to be that for both strain hardening and elastic hysteresis

 

https://www.google.co.uk/#q=strain+hardening

 

https://www.google.co.uk/#q=elastic+hysteresis

You what, you're right. My bad. k does increase. Good catch.

[swansont]

the energy released by the spring is definitely greater than the energy required to wind the spring, if you take the rotational energy slowly...

 

It's so easy to just make a statement like this, but that doesn't make it true. You need to be able to show this, either from basic physics, or experimentally. And you can't, because it's not true.