What is a pedophile?

[Coral Rhedd]

they dont come under the defenition of psychopaths.

 

You are correct that they don't fall specifically under that definition. I am a little tired to look for links tonight.

 

Here is what I remember learning. Pedophiles are more sociopathic than the average person, but less sociopathic than the general criminal population. They actually tend to be more messed up. They tend to be more schizoaffective, more dependent, and more depressed. In other words, more desperate with less of a handle on reality. They show lots of thinking distortions.

[mezarashi]

Maybe some were born with it, but for the record, pedophilic tendencies can be acquired. A good example is anime. Anime naturally breeds pedophilia, and many I know (*eyes himself*) have started to fall victim.

[Coral Rhedd]

Maybe some were born with it, but for the record, pedophilic tendencies can be acquired. A good example is anime. Anime naturally breeds pedophilia, and many I know (*eyes himself*) have started to fall victim.

 

You're joking, right?

[rakuenso]

Do NOT ask me how I know this...

 

But I've heard there exists a type of legal anime porn (yes cartoon porn) called lolikon which pretty much depicts cartoon underaged kids performing... well you get the idea. But would this count as pedophilia as well? even though its with cartoons?

[Coral Rhedd]

Do NOT ask me how I know this...

 

But I've heard there exists a type of legal anime porn (yes cartoon porn) called lolikon which pretty much depicts cartoon underaged kids performing... well you get the idea. But would this count as pedophilia as well? even though its with cartoons?

 

I don't know. I would have to do some research, but generally pornography and pedophile criminal law is separate. Where a problem arises is when actual children are used in the production of pornography and when a pedophile uses pornography in the process of "grooming" a child for abuse. In the U.S., those are against the law for sure.

 

Do you know if the anime you speak of is legal in Japan?

[mezarashi]

Do NOT ask me how I know this...

 

But I've heard there exists a type of legal anime porn (yes cartoon porn) called lolikon which pretty much depicts cartoon underaged kids performing... well you get the idea. But would this count as pedophilia as well? even though its with cartoons?

 

For the people inexperienced with Japanese culture, yes, these "cartoons" make up a great deal of Japanese entertainment. In fact they are not considered cartoons at all. People of all ages watch it. Some of their "cartoon" shows (anime) air at midnight or 2 AM (obviously not for kids). Similarly in their adult video industry, there is a large market for porn cartoons, known as "hentai". A search on google for "hentai" or "lolicon" will land you some relevant results. They can be used as substitutes for sexual stimulation, and to many people are actually better, and do not need to break the law. Not all hentai is themed on child sex of course, and different people enjoy different themes. It is somewhat disturbing to know however, that alot of people enjoy depictions of what appear to be underaged girls.

[Coral Rhedd]

For the people inexperienced with Japanese culture, yes, these "cartoons" make up a great deal of Japanese entertainment. In fact they are not considered cartoons at all. People of all ages watch it. Some of their "cartoon" shows (anime) air at midnight or 2 AM (obviously not for kids). Similarly in their adult video industry, there is a large market for porn cartoons, known as "hentai". A search on google for "hentai" or "lolicon" will land you some relevant results. They can be used as substitutes for sexual stimulation, and to many people are actually better, and do not need to break the law. Not all hentai is themed on child sex of course, and different people enjoy different themes. It is somewhat disturbing to know however, that alot of people enjoy depictions of what appear to be underaged girls.

 

In this case, the civil libertarian in me wars a bit with the child advocate. My sense is that people who are attracted to "cartoon" child porn may have some issues involving an attraction to children. In the U.S., using real children in the production of porn or the possession of such will get someone a long prison sentence. I feel this is justified because using the child in such a manner directly harms the children.

 

I once had a rather contentious argument with my philosophy of law profession that if we deny convicted felons who committ armed robbery access to guns, it is justifiable to deny felons convicted of any sexual offense access to pornography. Note that I did not argue how this could work in actual practice. It would be extremely difficult to enforce.

 

Communities struggle everyday with the fact that dangerous predators are released into their their cities and towns. Most of these people are usually no less dangerous than when they were convicted, but they have served their time (and usually been model prisoners) so that the system has little choice but to release them. Laws such as Washingon State has to retain these criminals are still wending their way through the U.S. court system. Making the possession of pornography by these criminals against the law is one way to deal with this problem

 

We will never have a world in which children are wholly protect against adult sexual aggression. Educating the public, strengthening existing laws, and strengthening the Child Protective Services, is probably the best solution.

 

At this time, I would oppose making such anime as you describe against the law if it is viewed or possessed by the non-criminal citizen.

 

When people overstimulate themselves sexually by the use of porn, it can create problems for themselves as well as others, but I know little about this issue and it would probably belong more properly in another thread.

[Dak]

best explination iv heard is that all males are desighned to look for both sighns of youth and sighns of age in a potential sexual mate. so, for example, large eyes, full lips, round face etc are all sighns of youth, whereas full breasts, wide hips etc are all sighns of age. by looking for both simultaniously the male is directed toward mating with a female that is old enough to bear child, but also young enough to be robust enough to survive the prosess. for example, a twenty-year-old femal will exhibit both sighns of youth (larger eyes, rounder face etc) AND sighns of age (developed breasts, child-bearing-hips etc) and so will appear attractive1. whilst a 5-year-old girl will have the sighns of youth, the absence of sighns of age will prevent her appearing sexually attractive to most males (and likewize, whilst a 90-year-old will exhibit sighns of age, the absence of sighns of youth will prevent her appearing attractive).

 

however, as with all psycological stuff, it is possible for this instinct to become broke. if a person does not have the 'also look for sighns of age in the individual' bit, then there instinkt basically reads 'look for sighns of youth'... thusly, they are attracted to kids.

 

or more succinctly, the basic instinkt is to look for someone 'not too old, not to young': if you ignoor the 'not to young' part...

 

as to why they think like this:

 

#natural preference ie naturally screwed-up instinkts, akin to homosexuality (in cause -- not meaning to equate homosexuality to paedophillia)

#hatred of childeren

#mental problems which prevent them from forming sexual relations with adults, thus causing their sex-drive to retarget itself to childeren so that they can have sexual release

#clinical psycosis (if i understand its definition correctly -- the lack of ability to emphasise with others?)

#power fetish?

 

and how to treat them -- at the end of their sentance, remove their testicles. i know it sounds harsh, but the sex drive is the strongest instinkt humans posess, and its hard to ignoor. its not really surprising that most reoffend (imagine trying to refrain from having sex for your entire life! i like to think that, if i was paedophillically inclined, i would refrain from acting out on my desires, but im sure it would be very difficult). removing the testicles would reduce the sex-drive and help them controle their urges. im not normally given to such extreme solutions, but i think that what they do is so potentially damaging to the child, that it can be justified in cases where adults have sex with young childeren.

[Callipygous]

i dont know much about this, but would it be possible to medicate the indivdual to remove the sex drive as opposed to removing organs?

[Coral Rhedd]

Yes, it is possible to greatly reduce the "behavior" but allowing the person who receives the drug to be less impulsive and driven about sex. It is not as decisive as actual castration, but it has created some controversies. You can read about it here:

 

http://www.heretical.com/money/soffence.html

[john5746]

At this time' date=' I would oppose making such anime as you describe against the law if it is viewed or possessed by the non-criminal citizen.

[/quote']

 

I agree. While it is disturbing, Japan has alot of violence in games, etc also, but they don't seem to act upon it. Telling someone they can't draw or speak of things is different then telling them who they can videotape.

[Ophiolite]

and likewise, whilst a 90-year-old will exhibit signs of age, the absence of signs of youth will prevent her appearing attractive.

Unless you are a 94 year old man.

 

Now on a serious note related to above. Many people (I suspect most) have a mental image of what age they are that does not relate to their chronological age. I 'think' I am in my mid to late twenties, and have done for thirty years. Thirty years ago it was true.

When I am in the company of twenty somethings I 'feel' I am with peers - they see a grumpy old man.

So, is it possible that some pedophiles are 'trapped' at a much earlier age in terms of the age they feel they are, so that they are attracted to the 'same' age range? If so, one would have thought the perception could be corrected by therapy. Any ideas?

[Coral Rhedd]

Unless you are a 94 year old man.

So' date=' is it possible that some pedophiles are 'trapped' at a much earlier age in terms of the age they feel they are, so that they are attracted to the 'same' age range? If so, one would have thought the perception could be corrected by therapy. Any ideas?[/quote']

 

Actually seeing themselves as "children" and a peer-mate of the children they molest, is a very common trait of pedophilia. The question that I think arises is whether this a symptom or a cause of the behavior.

 

If it is an underlying contributor to the behavior, then altering the pedophile's self concept as to age would no doubt be useful.

 

I used to think of myself as being in my twenties until I was in my forties. Then that pleasant illusion faded. Have you ever been interviewed for a job by a 21 year old? That'll do it.

[ramin]

I believe they should be identified early and incarcerated through monitoring these things in the community. However, and here's the catch, society has to take responsibility as well. These things are necessarily illicited and allowed by society, through isolating people.

[Coral Rhedd]

I believe they should be identified early and incarcerated through monitoring these things in the community. However, and here's the catch, society has to take responsibility as well. These things are necessarily illicited and allowed by society, through isolating people.

 

Ramin, can you expand a bit upon your last sentence? I am not certain I understand what you mean.

[ramin]

Ramin, can you expand a bit upon your last sentence? I am not certain I understand what you mean.

 

It isn't clear? Society isolates, and this comes out in different ways such as the non-burden, isolated, schizophrenic and autistic attitudes, or the revenge-seeking, sick, meaningless attitude of various types of psycho-paths and pedophiles, or the self-destructive attitude such as the bulimics.

 

To close-up into the problem of pedophilia, societies that assume sickness and disturbance are susceptible for self-fulfilling prophecies and the snowballing of people's disturbing thoughts (tell someone they are sick, and they will become it). Being rejected from false and arbitrary definitions of right, as well as being labelled sick (just by the label existing), one does not gain anything from following those definitions and in fact sees reason to not follow them and rationalizes their habit as a decision. Another factor is when society itself is currupt and discriminatory. Why should one follow these people's rules and norms?

[Dak]

are you saying that the labeling of paedophiles as mentally ill causes them to become mentally ill, or that the labelling of someone as a paedophile causes them to become a paedophile?

 

Another factor is when society itself is currupt and discriminatory. Why should one follow these people's rules and norms?

 

this is exactly how i have always felt. i follow my own rules, not the rules that society attempts to press upon me. in my mind, if something is illegal, this equates to 'dont get caught doing it'. however, i have never had sex with a kid. i guess that getting annoyed with society could be a factor which makes it easyer for paedophiles to have sex with childeren, but they would need the inclination to have sex with kids first. unless its just to spite society, which is mindlessly distructive enough that id assume the perpetrator was mentally ill.

[ramin]

are you saying that the labeling of paedophiles as mentally ill causes them to become mentally ill' date=' or that the labelling of someone as a paedophile causes them to become a paedophile?

 

 

 

this is exactly how i have always felt. i follow my own rules, not the rules that society attempts to press upon me. in my mind, if something is illegal, this equates to 'dont get caught doing it'. however, i have never had sex with a kid. i guess that getting annoyed with society could be a factor which makes it easyer for paedophiles to have sex with childeren, but they would need the inclination to have sex with kids first. unless its just to spite society, which is mindlessly distructive enough that id assume the perpetrator was mentally ill.[/quote']

 

That's why I mentioned in conjunction with other social factors, such as various forms of isolation, abuse, arbitrary expectations & discrimination, false assumptions about nature, and labelling of pedophilia.

 

To clarify the labelling, what I mean is the consciousness that people and society reject you as a person due to your current thoughts and inclinations.

 

And for yourself, I'm sure your circumstances have allowed your mental health and willpower. Even if you have the isolation of a premature pedophile, however, I don't think you would have become one. You may have resisted it or expressed via other forms of mental illness such as schizophrenia, autism, depression, anxiety etc.

[ramin]

Relieving isolation is easier than one thinks. It can come from simply thinking that one is basically a human being just like everyone else. It doesn't mean communism, theocracy or any other purported lack of freedom.

[Coral Rhedd]

That's why I mentioned in conjunction with other social factors' date=' such as various forms of isolation, abuse, arbitrary expectations & discrimination, false assumptions about nature, and labelling of pedophilia.

 

To clarify the labelling, what I mean is the consciousness that people and society reject you as a person due to your current thoughts and inclinations.

 

And for yourself, I'm sure your circumstances have allowed your mental health and willpower. If you have the isolation of a premature pedophile, I don't think you would have become one. You may have resisted it or expressed via other forms of mental illness such as schizophrenia, autism, depression, anxiety etc.[/quote']

 

General legal definition of a pedophile is someone who acts upon this impulse. What is a "premature pedophile?" Is there a "premature" schizophrenic? You seem to be saying all of these illnesses have the same root cause.

[ramin]

General legal definition of a pedophile is someone who acts upon this impulse. What is a "premature pedophile?" Is there a "premature" schizophrenic? You seem to be saying all of these illnesses have the same root cause.

 

I used the word "premature" to indicate premature stages of it. Any illness has onset stages.

 

Yes, most illnesses have the same root cause of social isolation.

[Coral Rhedd]

I used the word "premature" to indicate premature stages of it. Any illness has onset stages.

 

Yes' date=' most illnesses have the same root cause of social isolation.[/quote']

 

Okay. But to put a rather simple twist on it, are these related to attachment disorder of a sort or to poor object relations?

 

I know from a past chat with you that you reject any genetic causes.

[ramin]

Okay. But to put a rather simple twist on it, are these related to attachment disorder of a sort or to poor object relations?

 

Directly why not. But ultimately this is due to social norms, beliefs, and behaviors.

 

I know from a past chat with you that you reject any genetic causes.

 

This can be taken in two different ways, and hopefully you're not playing semantics on me.

 

I reject the importance of genetic factors in depleted environments.

[Dak]

Even if you have the isolation of a premature pedophile, however, I don't think you would have become one. You may have resisted it or expressed via other forms of mental illness such as schizophrenia, autism, depression, anxiety etc.

 

ahem! exuse me, but i did not avoid becoming a paedophile by becoming insane. i avoided becoming a paedophile simply by not having the desire to have sex with kids.

 

Relieving isolation is easier than one thinks. It can come from simply thinking that one is basically a human being just like everyone else. It doesn't mean communism, theocracy or any other purported lack of freedom.

 

and i do not feel isolated from society or that its completely corrupt etc, when i said 'this is how i feel' i was agreeing with the last centanse, ie 'why should we follow these peoples rules etc', but reguardless of the reasons, the effect is still that i have no inclination to respect the rules of society. however, i am not a paedophile or, may i add, schitzophrenic, autistic, a member of the monstor raving loony party etc. my point was that disreguard for the rules of society does not nessesaraly equate to paedophile

[Coral Rhedd]

 

Actually, having no inclination to follow social norms is one of the earmarks of a sociopath. However, fortunately there are others.