What is a pedophile?

[Coral Rhedd]

I think there is a problem in that what somebody thinks is love often turns out not to be. Attraction can of course feel very very much like love' date=' and in fact can be seen of as a 30-day trial version thereof, just to keep a couple together long enough to check if the potential for true love to form is indeed there. I am sure that even those rapists who do not perhaps realiase what they are doing, do FEEL like they are really and truly in love with a child leading up to and in the moment.

 

It is INDISPUTABLE that there are cases in which adult/child sex is not harmful. Were it not illegal to engage in such activity, I would go and find people it's happened to and ask them to post here for you as proof. There is a study somewhere I once saw - it had three interviews with boys who had had sex with oldr men without any regrets. I tried to find it just a moment ago, but I could not. Anyone else know where it is?[/quote']

 

Interviews are not the same as studies.

 

Ezekiel, you'd better quit. You are only harming yourself. People reveal themselves by what they write. Their rationalizations and justifications become available for all to see.

 

I will tell you frankly that the casualness with which you discuss rape is a little chilling. Try to see what others (not necessarily the pedophile crew) see in your words here. Sometimes it is hard for people to know what is normal when they left normal behind a long time ago. Try to think of when that was for you. Maybe you can find a way to help yourself.

[Kylonicus]

How stupid were you when you were a kid?

 

Could you really make decisions that were smart?

 

Unless you were born like Gregory R. Smith, you really didn't know what was good for you when you were little.

 

Most little kids are stupid, I know I was.

 

What's the likelyhood that the child will regret it?

 

Children can't really decide for themselves what's best for them.

 

That's what parents are for. If the parent consents, it's still usually wrong, because usually the parent would be consenting for money.

 

It would be like, if you were in a coma, and someone decided to have a good time with you.

 

Or if you were drugged up, and you decided that everything was a-okay, and that the rapist was perfectly fine, during the time you were drugged up.

 

That's what a kids conciousness is like, sweet, innocent, maleable, and not that bright. A child can be abused so easily, and it's so easy to convince them that they have not been abused, even when they have, that we MUST have laws to protect those who cannot protect themselves.

 

 

 

Not only do our laws, and ethical standards have to be adjusted to what would be the hypothetical right situation, but they have to be adjusted to what possible abuses could occur due to that law.

 

Whatever can go wrong, will go wrong, even when you put the legal boundries on there. There will still be violations. So you have to make it extremely strict in order to compensate for that.

[Callipygous]

its not about the childs regrets, its about the psychological effects it has on the child. how it alters their world view. its the same reason you shouldnt let your 8 year old look at porn. children arent supposed to be exposed to sex. if you dont believe me listen to love line sometime. adam corrola and dr drew answering phone calls with all sorts of problems. you would not believe the percentage of people who call in with serious psychological problems, and problems with their relationships, that are people who were exposed to sex at a very young age. people with sexual disfunction, people who cant reach an orgasm unless their partner is wearing a mask and acting out a rape. they come to associate the relationship they had early as the only type of relationship they can have. those are only a couple of the things that have been linked back to people who had sexual experiences before they were ready.

[ezekiel23]

.

[GreenDestiny]

Maybe this could be interesting to some. It's from an article about pedophilia published in a German science magazine. It's from the "Bild der Wissenschaft", issue 4/2004:

 

Polizeisprecher bezeichnen Sexualstraftäter, die sich an Kindern vergreifen, oft kurzerhand als Pädophile. Doch die meisten sind keine echten Pädophilen. Unter ihnen versteht die Weltgesundheitsorganisation nur Menschen mit einer sexuellen "Präferenz für Kinder, die sich zumeist in der Vorpubertät oder im frühen Stadium der Pubertät befinden". Die meisten der "Kinderschänder" genannten Täter interessieren sich aber sexuell nicht in erster Linie für Kinder. Sie vergreifen sich lediglich an ihnen, weil Kinder eine leichte Beute sind.

Der emeritierte Bremer Soziologieprofessor Rüdiger Lautmann und das amerikanische Kinsey-Institut schätzen den Anteil der Pädophilen unter den Tätern auf 5 Prozent.

 

My translation of the paragraph:

Police speakers refer to sexual offenders who abuse children often short as pedophiles. But most of them are no real pedophiles. For the World Health Organization those are only people with a sexual "preference for children who are usually in pre-puberty or at the beginning of puberty". But most of the offenders called "child molesters" aren't primary sexually interested in children. They only choose them because children are an easy target.

The professor emeritus of sociology from Bremen, Rüdiger Lautmann, and the American Kinsey Institute estimate the portion of pedophiles amongst the offenders as 5 percent.

 

There is also graph in that issue which shows the different types of child molesters and only one part of them are pedophiles. Still, for the general public all of these seem to be the same which is just not the case.

 

Here is a scan of the graphic, with my translation beyond:

 

click to see scan

 

(numbers added by me)

 

First block: offenders with many contacts

1 - interpersonal

2 - narcistic

 

Second block: offenders with many contacts

3 - exploitative, non-sadistic

4 - subliminal sadistic

5 - aggressive, non-sadistic

6 - sadistic

 

----

 

1: The offender wants to have a mutual relationship with the child, sex usually only fondling, intercourse by hand and oral intercourse. This type embodys the classic pedophile.

2: The offender is mostly interested in sex, sexual intercourse. No relationship to the child, the victims are often strangers.

3: The offender doesn't harm the victims physically or at most unintentionally and insignificantly.

4: Hints of sadistic fantasies, which are acted out without injuries. Ritualizations, penetration with objects without injury, frightening of the child.

5: The offender does harm, but there are no indications that he experiences the harming or frightening of the child as erotic. This type of offender is rare.

6: Ritualized and bizarre acts with significant injuries e.g. at the genitalia and breasts. This type of offender is very rare.

 

----

 

7 - The text below the profiles:

"American scientists have, with the help of a statistical procedure, classified sexual offenders who abuse children into different types of personalities and characteristics of their actions. This differentiated classification withstood an examination of real offenders. The generally accepted result: Pedophiles represent only a part of the child molesters and usually don't belong to those who use violence - up to murder."

 

8 - Source: Kraus: "Die Klassifikation v. Straftätern" from Knight & Prentzky, "Monatsschrift f. Kriminologie u. Strafrechtsref. 6/2000"

 

----

 

So one can see that pedophiles are only a fraction of actual child abusers. And not every pedophile is a child abuser. So, when all of this is merged together, as it is often done, this is just not correct.

[Phi for All]

And I don't want to risk anything. I will be erasing all my posts.

Thus erasing any credibility you may have gained.

 

 

 

Thanks for wasting our time.

[GreenDestiny]

But many people here think that way' date=' normal heterosexuals. Still, the laws in Germany could also need improvements in some aspects. To name an example, it would be legal for a 12yo to have sex (of whatever kind, not necessarily intercourse) with a 13yo, but one year later, when one turns 14 it would become illegal (Maybe it would even be illegal before, but of no importance because both are children [persons under 14'], I'm not sure about that). Or imagine a 16yo boy having sex with a 13yo girl - that would also be illegal and this is not a completely abnormal situation. I think if you can have legally sex when you are 14, why should it be impossible that there are also 13yo's who are mature enough for it?

You can parse this all you want and it is all a red herring. The issue is adults exploiting children to satisfy their own sexual needs and then trying to convince people that the child is the seducer. Gimme a break!

 

I didn't write anything like that. In the paragraph you quoted I didn't even talk about adult/child sexual relations. You asked me what I think about the AoC laws and gave you an answer concering the laws of my country and what IMO could be improved. Somehow I get the feeling you don't really read what I write, but have your preconceived opinion which you just post, regardless of what I say.

 

I think you are dreaming mostly. But even you use the word rare. Rare. Rare does not justify changing the law.

[...]

No there shouldn't. The law is there to protect children because they are not able to protect themselves. Making exceptions would only make children more vulnerable and would give seducers of children more legal wiggle room.

 

Yes, of course I used the word rare. Like most people here I don't think it is the norm that a child wants to have sex with an older person. Still, such cases seem to exist, where the child wants it and is mature enough and then I wouldn't think that it should be punished. That would be rather unjust. But I didn't suggest big changes. Just a law with the possibility of allowing an exception in cases where it is clear to anyone that the relationship was not abusive and both persons profited from it. You know, sometimes such cases are in the news, where the judge says that no harm has been done, but it is still illegal and must therefore be punished. Such a law wouldn't really make it any easier for child molesters...

 

But as I said before, what does the opinion about Aoc laws have to do with general social acceptance of pedophiles?

Plenty. Pedophiles should not accepted because to do so would make pedophile aggressions against children more acceptable. Pedophiles need to be studied, understood, cared about, and treated. I think this is about as good as you are likely to get given the large numbers of adult men and women, some of whom I have talked to, who see adult/child sex, or what they call abuse, as having caused them PTSD, identity problems, depression, and an abiding fear and mistrust of others.

 

Somehow sex is all you can think about. I wasn't even talking about accepting child sex, I was only talking about showing more social acceptance to pedophiles in general.

 

You could be more tolerant towards pedophiles, but still be against any changes of the law.

Tolerance leads to moving the line. I think we should -- at the very least -- hold the line.

 

I am sorry for your suffering, but I am sorrier still for what a child may suffer should you cross that line.

 

Sorry, but this argumentation isn't very logical. Then you could also say that society should look down upon men in general, because they could be rapists/sexual abusers of women. Tolerance of men leads to moving the line up to accepting rape. You see, arguing this way just doesn't make much sense.

 

Also, you don't know me. You just assume that I might be in danger of making a child suffer. Do I assume that you are in danger of raping someone, killing someone or doing something else along these lines?

[GreenDestiny]

Here you are clearly saying that you want pedophilia to be viewed as an orientation. I have no problem with that if the word orientation is applied very broadly but orientation need not confer the right to sexual activity with children.

 

Yes, I agree with that.

[GreenDestiny]

I think in today's society nobody should be judged based on his sexual orientation.

There not.......What's being judged is the mindset of some pedophile ADULTS who have come here to tell us that ADULTS having sex with little kids is ok if the little kid doesn't mind for various reasons.....thats all.

 

An example of mindset is in another post of yours......the bold print bothers me the most.

 

Regarding adults and children' date=' well, I think sexual abuse should be illegal. This includes rape, abuse where the child is passive and just lets the adult do because of fear and also cases where the child has been coerced into it. [b']Still I think that there are some rare cases where such sexual relationships can be positive for both sides and I think a poster even told about such a situation somewhere on this thread. Because of this I think that there should at least be a law which would allow excptions if it is really clear to the judge that the relationship was really consenting and not damaging to the child.[/b] All other sexual relationships should still remain illegal of course.

 

Well, someone asked me what I think about the AoC laws and I just responded. As I said before I think social acceptance and the discussion of AoC laws are two seperate issues. Personally, the whole sex talk isn't that important to me. I never had sex so far and certainly won't have it in the near future. Actually, I think that it's most likely that I will never have sex, since I think that it's rather unlikely that I will someday meet a boy who would want to do that. As I said, in Germany it would be legal if he is 14, so I could have sex, it's just not that I really think it will happen. So it's actually not a very important issue in my life. But these discussions about pedophilia somehow always seem to focus on this topic.

 

It also wonders me a bit that my opinion about AoC laws bothers you that much. It's just an opinion, it doesn't harm you. I've read discussions like this one before and have also met some heterosexual people with similar opinions - would those people bother you that much as well?

 

Only because you are a pedophile people seem to think that you are close to hurting a child. I can tell you I'm not. But I guess you won't believe that anyway.

[Coral Rhedd]

I didn't write anything like that. In the paragraph you quoted I didn't even talk about adult/child sexual relations. You asked me what I think about the AoC laws and gave you an answer concering the laws of my country and what IMO could be improved. Somehow I get the feeling you don't really read what I write' date=' but have your preconceived opinion which you just post, regardless of what I say.

 

 

 

Yes, of course I used the word rare. Like most people here I don't think it is the norm that a child wants to have sex with an older person. Still, such cases seem to exist, where the child wants it and is mature enough and then I wouldn't think that it should be punished. That would be rather unjust. But I didn't suggest big changes. Just a law with the possibility of allowing an exception in cases where it is clear to anyone that the relationship was not abusive and both persons profited from it. You know, sometimes such cases are in the news, where the judge says that no harm has been done, but it is still illegal and must therefore be punished. Such a law wouldn't really make it any easier for child molesters...

 

 

 

Somehow sex is all you can think about. I wasn't even talking about accepting child sex, I was only talking about showing more social acceptance to pedophiles in general.

 

 

 

Sorry, but this argumentation isn't very logical. Then you could also say that society should look down upon men in general, because they could be rapists/sexual abusers of women. Tolerance of men leads to moving the line up to accepting rape. You see, arguing this way just doesn't make much sense.

 

Also, you don't know me. You just assume that I might be in danger of making a child suffer. Do I assume that you are in danger of raping someone, killing someone or doing something else along these lines?[/quote']

 

I believe most of the pedophiles posting here want far more than social acceptance. They want to change the law. I want to strengthen the law in the other direction. I think fondling a child is sexual assault. I know enough of children who have been assaulted in this manner from both professional and volunteer work to know that it is harmful.

 

I don't assume you are in danger of forcible rape involving penetration. Nor do I assume you are in danger of killing someone. Ezekiel is the one who kept talking of rape as if it were the only harm to a child. Manipulation is also harmful. Other sexual activities are harmful. The study the APA once considered (very old news by the way) involved adolescents not children. The evidence that sexual abuse is harmful to children is overwhelming.

 

If you want social acceptance and that does not include changing the law then please explain what social acceptance you can possibly have when you define yourself as a pedophile. You surely don't think that people will then trust you around their children?

[Merle Noir]

With all due respect' date=' I am surprised you would find this so confusing. I have never thought of nor have ever been tempted to have sex with a little boy. This makes you and I as different as night and day....In other words.....I'm a normal human being.

 

Don't get me wrong. I am not flaming you, I realize there is something wrong with your brain that makes you different from me, but you need help.

 

Bettina[/quote']

 

Yes there is a difference between you and me. But why is my difference wrong and your difference OK... because you are a majority and majority rules that makes it acceptable to hate someone because of a difference.

 

You have already said that if your attraction to guys your age was deemed illegal and was hated by society that nothing would stop you from having sex with them. Yet I live in exactly that situation where my sexual attraction is denied to me by law. But rather then say OK law be damned I'm going through with my desires I follow the law.

 

BUT I'm human and subject to temptation just like everyone else and subject to make mistakes. I open up my life so you can get a better understanding and I get the impression instead your not looking to understand me and what it might be like or even that it is possible that pedophiles are not all a bunch of Monsters and predators waiting to nab a child and abuse them, but instead your looking for parts of my life you can hold up and say Look he's not a Perfect Saint so that your hatred of pedophiles can be justified and rationalized.

 

Yes you may find my attraction disgusting I find lots of other peoples sexuality disgusting and revolting. You may even think that some of the aspects of the way I live my life is disgusting. Thats fine but nothing I do harms anyone nothing I do is even illegal. But your the one with the problem as you find it disgusting and so to make you feel more comfortable I'm to just magically make myself someone I'm not or chemically castrate myself or torture myself with aversion therapy so you don't have to be troubled by someone who is different. Sorry I'm willing to follow the law as I see the importance of it even if I disagree with aspects of it. But I am NOT going to change who I am or subject myself to torture so you can stick your head in the sand and not have to face up to differences.

[YT2095]

I can`t speak for Bettina, nor would I presume to do so, but I also find the concept quite Alien and repugnant, I admire your honesty though!

 

I have a couple more questions if you don`t mind.

 

1) when it come to the basic human need for sexual satisfaction of appetites, what`s your outlet?

 

2) when it comes to most of a certain age the idea of wanting to have children of your own, what are you going to do?

 

I`ve read your posts, and in the main I get the notion that your life must be Extremely Frustrating to say the least!

[Dak]

If you were truly a pedophile who is under control, you would continue a very near normal life. Nobody would know that you crave little kids. You would not be on a bulletin board posting your feelings.

im a pasafist. doesnt mean that i dont occasionally want to cave peoples skulls in. it just means that i refrain, and sometimes it isnt easy. ie, me being a pasifist does not make me the same as someone who never has violent thoughts.

 

Yes I do recall saying I'm interested in changing [AoC laws][/i'] but don't recall saying to help people like me although I suppose I could say it may have that effect. I think AoC laws of about 14 or 15 is about right and 16 is not bad but 18 and 21 are just ridiculous IMO. The changes I think need to be made are things like expanding Romeo and Juliet laws so fewer children have their lives ruined by being listed as a sex offender because they played around while under age. If 2 children that are below the AoC (or when R&J laws below the R&J AoC) have consensual sex with each other generally the one that first reports it is the victim and the other the the sex offender. When discovered in many locations it is the older that is the offender or if male/female it is the male that is the sex offender.

actually, im inclined to agree that 21 is a tad on the strict side however the purpose of an AoC law is to prevent someone from having sex at an age where it is considered that a significant number of individuals will make a wrong desision, and suffer as a consequense - when viewed like that, it seems a lot more justified, as it depends on what the (portugese, if i remember correctly) view as 'a significant number of mistakes'.

 

applying the AoC laws to someone who is, themself, under the AoC seems a bit dumb though. i assume theyre not treated as harshly?

 

Who says I don't have a therapist... BTW coming out is one of the things Therapists will often recommend as they realize that the more people know about the truth the harder it is to offend. Thats the same logic behind Sex Offender Registries. However I come out primarily because I think and believe that if young pedophiles can get support and understanding from society instead of hate and ridicule, they may be able to avoid the the rationalization that can lead to them becoming abusers as it nearly did for me as a teen.

do people (other than on forums and other paedophiles) actually know that your a paedophile? if so, what are there reactions/do they accept you once youv made it clear that your non-practising?

 

Since the question of pornography has arisen today' date=' I thought some of you might be interested in how the internet allows pedophiles to connect with each other so that they do not feel and alone and also pursue their interest in pornography:

[/quote'] perhaps it would be benificial to clearly define what kind of 'child porn' we are and are not talking about here? maybe even link to examples if they are legal and we are only talking cataloge-grade stuff here but, and i want to make this clear so that i dont get into trouble for sujjesting it, ONLY IF THEY ARE LEGAL AND ASK AN ADMIN BEFORE POSTING A LINK TO ANY EXAMPLES OF LEGAL 'PORN' BEFORE DOING SO OTHERWIZE I MAY HAVE MY ASS KIKED FOR SUJJESTING IT admins are the ones whos names are in red - blike, sayonara³ and dave DONOT POST THE LINK WITHOUT GETTING IT OK'D BY AN ADMIN FIRST sorry for shouting that, but i dont want to get in trouble.

 

This is really disgusting' date='

 

Why can't yall just to agree to disagree and to hate each other?

 

Bettina obviously won't change her mind.

 

I and the other anti-pedophiles won't change our minds.

 

The pedophiles aren't gonna change their minds.

 

And the pedophile supporters are probably going to stick by what they have said.

 

The ped supporters have essentially said so much stuff saying how pedophilia is right, they couldn't admit their wrong even if they were confronted with a large amount of evidence, because that would be an extremely large amount of embarrassment.

 

Everybody is in too deep to change positions now.

 

Therefore, since nobody's mind is going to be changed by the arguements present here, then there is no point in having this debate.

 

Speaking of debate, this should be moved to the debate section.[/quote']the point of discussion is to understand. understanding can lead to a better ability to deal with the issue. maybe we should lower the AoC, maybe we should raise it. maybe we should punish paedophiles less, maybe more. well never know unless we think about it, and discussion is part of testing your ideas and making you think about stuff. and as sayo said, its quite fortuitouse that some paedophiles turned up just as we were discussing them. as a scientist, i for one appreciate, at the very least, the raw data present in this thread.

 

and no, if you look through the debate forum youll find that the threads there work in an entirely different way to this thread.

 

It is INDISPUTABLE that there are cases in which adult/child sex is not harmful. Were it not illegal to engage in such activity, I would go and find people it's happened to and ask them to post here for you as proof. There is a study somewhere I once saw - it had three interviews with boys who had had sex with oldr men without any regrets. I tried to find it just a moment ago, but I could not. Anyone else know where it is?

yes, one of them posted his experienses here. but in the intrests of most childeren, the right of those few childeren to have sex is sacrafised, and overall less childeren suffer, and those that do suffer less.

 

Yes, of course I used the word rare. Like most people here I don't think it is the norm that a child wants to have sex with an older person. Still, such cases seem to exist, where the child wants it and is mature enough and then I wouldn't think that it should be punished. That would be rather unjust. But I didn't suggest big changes. Just a law with the possibility of allowing an exception in cases where it is clear to anyone that the relationship was not abusive and both persons profited from it. You know, sometimes such cases are in the news, where the judge says that no harm has been done, but it is still illegal and must therefore be punished. Such a law wouldn't really make it any easier for child molesters...

as i said before, i felt mature enough to have sex at 11 but now, as an adult, i feel that had an adult taken advantage of my attetude i would regret it now.

 

If you want social acceptance and that does not include changing the law then please explain what social acceptance you can possibly have when you define yourself as a pedophile. You surely don't think that people will then trust you around their children?

would you have a problem with the social acceptance of non-practising paedophiles

[ezekiel23]

Thus erasing any credibility you may have gained. Thanks for wasting our time.

Your time has not been wasted by merit of the fact that you know my opinion now, even if it still isn't written down. I am not the best debater here by a long shot, others are doing well gaining credibility for me, and, partly prompted by Coral's comments that I seem to talk about sex and rape a little too freely, I think I was going down the wrong road and arguing about the wrong things way too much. Much of what I wrote is still available to be read through quotes. This thread is receiving a scary number of views, and I thought that for my own personal comfort, it would be better that I removed my posts from the forum.

 

I am sorry if you view that as disrespect.

[Merle Noir]

I can`t speak for Bettina, nor would I presume to do so, but I also find the concept quite Alien and repugnant, I admire your honesty though!

Well hey I would expect no more then that. In fact I'd probably wonder about you if you didn't find the concept of it so.

 

I have a couple more questions if you don`t mind.

 

1) when it come to the basic human need for sexual satisfaction of appetites' date=' what`s your outlet? [/quote'] Since I do have heterosexual interests in women I tend to find that is the best outlet for me when I desire a partner. I have experimented with sex with other males and it can be an outlet as well but I find the thought repulsive and disgusting so I tend to avoid it but in some ways it seems an easier outlet to find then women. Probably cause with such men I'm looking for sex only and with women I'm looking for longer commitment.

 

2) when it comes to most of a certain age the idea of wanting to have children of your own, what are you going to do?

OHHHH boy I see this as a question that Bettina and Coral Rhedd are NOT gonna like the answer to. I actually do want to have children and hope that I can find a wife some day. However its a bit difficult since my primary attraction is to Boys.. any wife I manage to find is gonna have to have a HUGE heart to say the least... first she'll have to realise she's second to boys, she better not ask me to give up motorcycling like my last girlfriend and she's gonna have to know and accept me as a pedophile. I suspect I'm more then shooting for the moon but I have met such women... in fact I know that if she did not already have a BoyFriend I'd probably ask her out. BTW she meets ALL those requirements including knowing I'm a boy loving Pedophile.

[Merle Noir]

applying the AoC laws to someone who is, themself, under the AoC seems a bit dumb though. i assume theyre not treated as harshly?

One would hope. Coral Rhedd sounds like she maybe better able to answer then I, but the punishments I have heard about don't seem to be less, but as with the AoC laws themselves varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. I did read on IMDb forum a women whose husband is a registered sex offender in the US. As a result his neighbors are informed he's a registered sex offender, he can't get a decent job even though he has a college degree. His offence... when he was 17 he had sex with his 16yo girlfriend in a state with a AoC of 16 but no Romeo Juliet laws that would otherwise have excused this. I also read a horrific story about a mother whose son molested his little brother. From the report the school interrogated it out of the younger boy and then reported the abuse to the police. After going through all the therapy for the younger son and the aversion therapy for the older son in the end she said the process did more damage then her son had done and wished she lived in a country with more sensible attitudes. I'll find it there is interest but I'll put out first of all I think it is mostly a modern myth as I find a number of aspects to be hard to believe... I also subsequently found out it was published in a NAMBLA bulletin so I really started to suspect it.

 

do people (other than on forums and other paedophiles) actually know that your a paedophile? if so, what are there reactions/do they accept you once youv made it clear that your non-practising?

Well at the moment only one actually... and that is sort of a not really counts. Her Boy Friend is a Pedophile and I meet her through a Pedophile Forum. I am in the process of trying to tell my best friend but have not told him as there is a lot of distance and since I'm not close to his wife it makes it more difficult as I need to find if he would want to tell her as well. I may be out to my dad but if so we have not talked about it. On the other hand he may be in denial. I do know people who have come out and most report it went pretty well. The owner of a board I'm on was open to a lot of his professors and other students at his University. There are some Strangers that know it as I tend to get together with others and well people inevitably listen in as we talk and well its fun to watch their reactions.

[Phi for All]

Your time has not been wasted by merit of the fact that you know my opinion now, even if it still isn't written down.

I actually didn't get a chance to read all your posts before you erased them. I wasn't sitting at my comp the whole time. I rely on the forum to pick up the thread where i last left off. And with so many members, threads and posts, I don't always get a chance to read them all until sometime later.

I am sorry if you view that as disrespect.

As a poster and a member, I view it the way someone seeking knowledge views burning books. You have taken away my chance for learning. Despite the nature of this thread and the fact that many of us have children in the range you're describing, all here were willing to listen.

 

As a Moderator, you have violated this thread and made many replies look silly for future viewers. Of what were you afraid? Surely you must realize by now that, despite what some people were mentioning earlier, your IP address would never be shared. Word quickly spreads when internet forums depart from their integrity.

[GreenDestiny]

If you want social acceptance and that does not[/b'] include changing the law then please explain what social acceptance you can possibly have when you define yourself as a pedophile. You surely don't think that people will then trust you around their children?

 

What I'm asking for is simply acceptance in the way that people don't look at pedophiles as monsters or something similar... you know, it should just be possible to publicly talk about it, tell people about the way you feel without automatically being looked down upon by others. A bit like homosexuality has gained some social acceptance during the last decades. Only the orientation. Imagine if someone would mention that he's a pedophile. Most people would shun him thereafter, think of him as sick, disgusting, evil - some might even get violent. People shouldn't automatically associate every pedophile with a child molester, that's all.

[GreenDestiny]

1) when it come to the basic human need for sexual satisfaction of appetites' date=' what`s your outlet?

[/quote']

 

Well, you can always have sex with yourself. That's not the best imaginable probably, but it's better than nothing...

 

2) when it comes to most of a certain age the idea of wanting to have children of your own, what are you going to do?

 

Personally, I don't want to have children. But maybe that's because I'm still rather young and couldn't imagine being a father myself. Should I later develop the desire of having children, that could be a problem. I'm not really interested in women and getting into a relationship only for having children would be very dishonest towards the woman. And I don't think a woman would want to marry someone of whom she knows that he doesn't love her or at least doesn't desire her. But I couldn't imagine marrying anyway, at least at the moment I surely wouldn't wanna do that.

 

I`ve read your posts, and in the main I get the notion that your life must be Extremely Frustrating to say the least!

 

It is at times... mainly because you can't always talk to other people about how you feel... that can be extremly frustrating sometimes. There's also a certain feeling of lonliness. But I guess it can be very rewarding if you are lucky enough to have a friendship with a boy. I'm not talking about a sexual one, just a deep friendship.

Well, apart from that, there are of course other things in life like friends or hobbies, etc. which can make it worthwhile.

[Merle Noir]

OK I'm gonna take a different approach to the acceptance aspect. Rather then taking a bunch of quotes and tying myself to those comments I'll just summarize what I think some primarily Bettina and Coral Rhedd but certainly others as well. I'd say a large point is that we should deal with pedophilia by keeping it hidden, keeping it a secret and repressing this aspect of ourself.

 

OK fair enough I question the motivation behind this attitude. Is it to push something people find offensive under the rug, rather then dealing with it. IMO yes but I'll take it on its merit as a point.

 

Have you ever heard of Mike Echols. He's the author of the book that later became a made for TV movie call I know my First name is Steven. He was a self described "enemy of Pedophiles" and a child advocate. Now I'm sure on the surface he might be the kind of person some here might like. He set up an organization to scour the internet searching for pedophiles, like myself, to gather information on. Again I'm sure if you didn't know Mike Echols, you might like the sound of what he's doing. His organization would also seek to find children that where victimized by pedophiles. Starting to think he sounds like a great guy. Well if you never had the mis-pleasure to cross his path you just might think so.

 

However, Prepare for the side of him that is not so pretty. Unlike some of the pedophiles he harassed he IS a convicted child abuser along with a long list of other crimes. He had 53 disc and two magazines containing child pornography seized by the Canadian Immigration while on his way to, get this, a March Against Child Pornography.

 

Why the duality, fighting against pedophiles, while abusing children and crossing the boarder in possession of child pornography. Well according to his Psychological Evaluation a part of it has to do with Repressed Pedophilia. Thats right he was diagnosed as being just like me. I should point out the Diagnosis was done without meeting him in person it was based on his criminal record.

 

To quote from the Diagnosis "Mr. Echols' case clearly represents an archetypal example of a Reaction Formation (an "ego defense mechanism" first described by Sigmund Freud). In psychodynamic theory, the ego deploys defense mechanisms to protect itself from allowing disturbing, unconscious thoughts from ever reaching the level of consciousness." Or said another way the reason he abused children and the reason he possesed child Pornography all the while claiming to be working to stop both is because he repressed the Pedophile with in his subconscious mind with the upstanding citizen fighting against pedophilia. He was trying to do exactly what society asked of him trying to deny himself so as to be acceptable and unoffensive.

 

Of course maybe his good cause is sufficient to overlook his crimes. Well his organization "Saved" a boy from abuse. But the charges against the accused where dropped, But at least the boy was moved to another State. Of course the move was due to harassment and death threats because of a flier his organization circulated with the Victims picture and name on it... unfortunately this harassment followed him to his new location

 

You can read more about him here but just for Everyones info this is a pedophile site... its legal and clean with mostly info and discussion but I don't want anyone accusing me of hiding this fact. The link goes just to Mike Echols Un-authorized Biography and nothing else you'll have to shorten the URL to see anything else. -http://www.safet.net/echols/tubome.html-

[Callipygous]

OHHHH boy I see this as a question that Bettina and Coral Rhedd are NOT gonna like the answer to. I actually do want to have children and hope that I can find a wife some day. However its a bit difficult since my primary attraction is to Boys.. any wife I manage to find is gonna have to have a HUGE heart to say the least... first she'll have to realise she's second to boys,

 

wow... thats gonna be a healthy relationship.

 

your partner shouldnt be second to anyone or anything except maybe your own children.

 

if thats your approach im thinking adoption would be a better option, but, of course, im extremely hesitant to suggest adoption to a pedophile. i would actually be severely disappointed if any agency would give a pedophile a child.

 

i feel like a jackass saying you shouldnt have a child, but thats what i honestly feel, so here goes:

 

you shouldnt have a child.

[Merle Noir]

I am victim advocate. I see children who are harmed by men who "only wanted to love them." I know what the children say the men said to them to persuade them to sex and silence. Those men usually tell the children how much they L O V E them. I want to see the laws strengthened so that it is easier to convict sexual offenders.

 

Well your position is a bit more understandable. However are you really seeing the whole picture. Your position as a victim advocate means that the ONLY side of it that you see is those that have involved abused. What is the likely hood of a you being a victim advocate for a relationship that involves no abuse of any kind? And sense you tend to assume sex when its not there I do mean a relationship where it has nothing in it illegal... in appropriate or other assumptions you may assume associated with Pedophilia other then the Attraction and NOTHING more. Because of the hysteria and paranoia surrounding this its almost impossible to look at this with out the blinders on of seeing the abuse and nothing more. As I said before if you're only knowledge of Heterosexuality is from the worst examples what are you likely to think. Should we assume Robert Blake, Scott Peterson, or OJ Simpson are representative of ALL Heterosexual relationships.

 

I think you are dreaming mostly. But even you use the word rare. Rare. [/size'] Rare does not justify changing the law.

Fine enough but does it justify Hating an entire group based on the minority with in them.

 

Plenty. Pedophiles should not accepted because to do so would make pedophile aggressions against children more acceptable. Pedophiles need to be studied, understood, cared about, and treated.

 

What studied like lab rats.. ohh joy.

 

Cared about... well telling someone there a Monster, a predator, a child abuser regardless of anything other then the label Pedophile is sure a great example of caring.

 

treated... if they are offenders or have some other problems stemming from say being so cared about sure but otherwise what treatment do we need.

 

I am sorry for your suffering, but I am sorrier still for what a child may suffer should you cross that line.

 

And I'm concerned about the child that may have the mis-fortune of coming across someone who has been isolated, rejected shunned and stigmatized by being told he's a monster and a predator and in-capable of anything but abuse... tell someone they are a monster long enough and thats exactly what they will be. [Added link and associated comment] here is a link with some excellent informations pay particular notice to the description of the results of "treatment." -http://www.mhamic.org/sources/gieles.htm-

 

Lets apply some of whats said about Pedophiles to other Minorities. Take Racism if you where to say Arabs are Predators and Monsters can you imagine the outcry that would follow. Considering the War on Terrorism it is easy to image such a slanderous comment being said but its easy to imagine the public out cry as well. How about Men are Predators and Monsters. While I can image some feminists possibly wanting to be able to make such a statement but the outcry again would be deafening. How about Homosexuals are Predators and Monsters. Considering they have only recently gained acceptance this would most certainly create an outcry against someone that made such a statement. You would probably even hear an out cry if you called a Shark a Monster (have to drop predator since it is). Yet when it comes to Pedophiles people can read Predator and Monster and hardly anyone will blink an eye, and raise an outcry... HUH not hardly. And yet I have not seen ANY of the references provided from either side that did not say most pedophiles don't act on their desires.

[Bettina]

I actually didn't get a chance to read all your posts before you erased them. I wasn't sitting at my comp the whole time. I rely on the forum to pick up the thread where i last left off. And with so many members' date=' threads and posts, I don't always get a chance to read them all until sometime later.As a poster and a member, I view it the way someone seeking knowledge views burning books. You have taken away my chance for learning. Despite the nature of this thread and the fact that many of us have children in the range you're describing, all here were willing to listen.

 

As a Moderator, you have violated this thread and made many replies look silly for future viewers. Of what were you afraid? Surely you must realize by now that, despite what some people were mentioning earlier, your IP address would never be shared. Word quickly spreads when internet forums depart from their integrity.[/quote']

 

Would you give out the IP if the police requested them? If no......then would you in a warrant. I'll be willing to bet thats what he is afraid of...the police.

 

Bettina

[Bettina]

What I'm asking for is simply acceptance in the way that people don't look at pedophiles as monsters or something similar... you know, it should just be possible to publicly talk about it, tell people about the way you feel without automatically being looked down upon by others. A bit like homosexuality has gained some social acceptance during the last decades. Only the orientation. Imagine if someone would mention that he's a pedophile. Most people would shun him thereafter, think of him as sick, disgusting, evil - some might even get violent. People shouldn't automatically associate every pedophile with a child molester, that's all.

 

Homosexuals are not a problem, at least not to me. To me, they are still moral. I know not by church standards, but who says the church is right. They have a right to be happy with each other no matter who they are with.

 

Do not try to compare homosexuals with pedophiles. Homosexuals don't try to bed little kids. If they did, they would be pedophiles....homosexual or straight.

I'm glad I live in a country that looks upon the pedophile for what they really are. A sick individual who is immoral, not only to the church, but to Mothers, Fathers, and the rest of civilization too.

 

If I were a pedophile, I would get help for my sickness and would hide it from everyone no matter how hard it would be. I would live out my entire life without hurting one single kid, and no one would have been the wiser.

 

Bettina

[Bettina]

wow... thats gonna be a healthy relationship.

 

your partner shouldnt be second to anyone or anything except maybe your own children.

 

if thats your approach im thinking adoption would be a better option' date=' but, of course, im extremely hesitant to suggest adoption to a pedophile. i would actually be severely disappointed if any agency would give a pedophile a child.

 

i feel like a jackass saying you shouldnt have a child, but thats what i honestly feel, so here goes:

 

you shouldnt have a child.[/quote']

 

I agree, and I won't comment on what I think of pedophiles having children less I get in trouble.

 

Bettina