What is a pedophile?

[5614]

OK, fair enough.

 

I wasn't really saying paedophilia is immoral, because after all it is just a feeling, but more having sex with pre-puberty children is immoral.

[ezekiel23]

Actually, thinking of pedophiles as inferior human beings could far better be compared to Nazis thinking Jews or foreigners are inferior to them, but I don't really want to do that (as it is sometimes done), because that's close to comparing pedophiles to the victims of the Nazis - but the acts done in the Third Reich were so terrible that it would be somewhat disrespectful to their victims to compare that with something from today, because what happened back then was far worse.

 

No! no! don't do it! some smart alec will declare the thread closed by Godwin's law.

[Merle Noir]

Homosexuals are not a problem, at least not to me. To me, they are still moral. I know not by church standards, but who says the church is right. They have a right to be happy with each other no matter who they are with.

 

Speaking of Religion and morality here is an interesting article. You may have seen it as it was referenced in a link I put in a post I did earlier so if you looked at that source and followed their references it may be old news.

 

However this is a very well done article on a Christian news site. I think they did a great job and is very objective without making the pedophile = Child Molester assumption. I will warn you this is a very very long article that could probably stand to be edited down as there is a bit too much info. It may be good to look over and come back and finish it later if your short on time. http://www.greenbelt.com/news/98/12/02.htm

 

If I were a pedophile' date=' I would get help for my sickness and would hide it from everyone no matter how hard it would be. I would live out my entire life without hurting one single kid, and no one would have been the wiser.

 

Bettina[/quote']

 

And what if in the course of getting help they suggested you come out to others... as some therapists do suggest? Additionally you say you would never hurt a child... very good but when actual pedophiles say they would never hurt a child suddenly its a double standard of thats not possible.

 

The only similarity is that once I get to know a child the sexual attraction becomes less and he becomes just a friend with very little sexual desire attached to the relationship. ?[/quote'] whys that?

 

I don't really know actually. I have seen on some forums where other Pedophiles say they have similar experience but I have no clue how common that may be. I can add that a boy I knew about 12 or 13 years ago who was either a bit of a flirt or liked to mirror sexual things he picked up around him is about the only exception. I really have no information on why that may be I might be able to come up with a few educated guesses but at the moment I have no answer or theory.

[Phi for All]

Well hard to say with my own child since I don't have one but I have rarely ever felt any attraction towards my Nephew.. The only similarity is that once I get to know a child the sexual attraction becomes less and he becomes just a friend with very little sexual desire attached to the relationship.

Could it be that you have an ideal in mind when you first see a child and the ideal wears away as you get to know them and you realize how empty a sexual relationship would be with them? This is not unlike some forms of prejudice that disappear as soon as you actually get to know someone from the group you've been stereotyping (hint hint, everyone).

Other Pedophiles that have seen a photograph of my nephew say he's good looking so I'd have to say its not that he's just not attractive.

What would be your reaction if a pedophile you knew expressed an interest in a relationship with your nephew?

[Merle Noir]

but at the end of the day paedophilia is totaly immoral and consequently the majority of people will be prejudice against it.

 

However morality is a subjective notion. What you and I may say is Immoral someone in a different culture who was raised differently may find completely moral.

 

For example in the US the Morals of many say that nudity in public such as Movies, TV programs, Newspapers, and so on is Morally objectionable. However in much of Europe it is practically the norm but Violence that is much more accepted in the US is considered more objectionable in Europe.

 

In terms of Pedophilia it does very from culture to culture. Japan had over a Millennia of acceptance of Pedophilia until Commodore Perry Forced them to open up to the west. Japanese considered it morally acceptable.

 

Another example is an Island tribe in the Pacific. The boys in this tribe spend the first 7 years of their life with the women. At 7 they associated with the men and is normal that they are to have sex with older boys 14 to 21. At 14 they can then have sex with the younger boys, my understanding is the older boys teach the younger ones. However at 21 they are considered men and are to Marry and have a wife and kids and heterosexual life style. A man from California in his 30's heard about this and figured Pedophilia was acceptable. By western standards of Morality the 7 year difference in ages of the boys would be defined as Pedophilia. When this man had sex with a young boy in this tribe he was arrested for child abuse. The reason is sex between what they consider children is acceptable but sex between what they consider an adult and a child is not. Reversed if a 20yo boy from this tribe came to our culture and had sex with a 12yo he would be charged with child abuse due to different moral expectations.

 

Which kind of leads me to a question. Excluding Force or coercion or any tactics someone might use to get a child that does not want to have sex to do so with an adult, What is or might be abusive? In other words if the child fully consents to the degree a child can what would be abusive about that? I do have some answers to the question cause I have considered it and debated it else where which is why I support AoC laws. But I'm interested in what others especially non-pedophiles have to say.

[Merle Noir]

Could it be that you have an ideal in mind when you first see a child and the ideal wears away as you get to know them and you realize how empty a sexual relationship would be with them?

 

From the way I read what you wrote I'd have to say no... A sexual relationship I think would be very wonderful and fulfilling. However in considering it more broadly then they way I read it I could see possibly that without some kind of feed back from the boy it kills the mood. Sort of like if a man goes to have sex with a women and she is not in the mood but say OK and then just lays there waiting for it to be over with it kills the mood for the guy. Or at least thats the way it is in the movies. But I really don't know that it is the case but seems pretty logical to me.

 

What would be your reaction if a pedophile you knew expressed an interest in a relationship with your nephew?

 

Lots of variables there. For example since he is now 16 I'd probably say thats between him and the Pedophile. However If they expressed interest in him at a younger age it get a bit more difficult. Most pedophiles I have meet I would say fine no problem. Although even then it gets difficult since he's my nephew and not my son I'd feel a lot more concerned that should it come out that I knew this person as a pedophile and hid that fact it would be a big problem ethically, and I'm not saying should it come out after a sexual relationship I'm saying should it come out period. There are some that I have met that I doubt would do anything in appropriate but I think I would be very suspicious and considering the ethical issue above I'd probably be a major pain in their ass. In the end I would have to say its not my position to say who is my nephews friend and who is not but for example to be a pain in the ass I'd be telling my sister while he may be a friend of mine I don't think my nephew should associate with him as he may be a bad influence and hope my sister stepped in. I'd also probably talk to my nephew a lot about the relationship and I am close enough with him, I'd know if I needed to be worried. The last variable is while so far no pedophile that I know has meet my nephew but those that I would introduce to him are ones that have developed a level of trust to begin with so anyone that I might really worry about is never gonna meet him.

[Lance]

Lots of variables there. For example since he is now 16 I'd probably say thats between him and the Pedophile. However If they expressed interest in him at a younger age it get a bit more difficult. Most pedophiles I have meet I would say fine no problem. Although even then it gets difficult since he's my nephew and not my son I'd feel a lot more concerned that should it come out that I knew this person as a pedophile and hid that fact it would be a big problem ethically, and I'm not saying should it come out after a sexual relationship I'm saying should it come out period. There are some that I have met that I doubt would do anything in appropriate but I think I would be very suspicious and considering the ethical issue above I'd probably be a major pain in their ass. In the end I would have to say its not my position to say who is my nephews friend and who is not but for example to be a pain in the ass I'd be telling my sister while he may be a friend of mine I don't think my nephew should associate with him as he may be a bad influence and hope my sister stepped in. I'd also probably talk to my nephew a lot about the relationship and I am close enough with him, I'd know if I needed to be worried. The last variable is while so far no pedophile that I know has meet my nephew but those that I would introduce to him are ones that have developed a level of trust to begin with so anyone that I might really worry about is never gonna meet him.

 

What if he was your own son and he was eight years old?

[klanger]

Merle Noir

 

We got off on a wrong footing the other day, I was just curious in trying to get to know you and your circumstances is all. It kinda went pear shaped when other assumed what I was thinking and I cant honestly say hand on heart that you werent throwing up a few smoke screens yourself.

 

Let me explain something to you ok, no hostility I promise. When I asked about child pornography and whether you have it or not, I wasnt thinking of art or catalogues of underwear (which by the way we do still have here in the uk) the kind of literature I was refering to is what I consider hard core, children not just naked, (sure you can get that stuff everywhere, though I havent seen any of the films you mentioned) but being photographed doing obcene things, obcene that is in my mind, when it concerns little children doing stuff such as felatio, either to them or having to do it to others, that it what my mind thinks of when child porn is mentioned, tear stained faces, quivering bottom lips, partially concealed faces so that the child is just a body and not a little person that feels and hurts and laughs and cries.

 

I cant deny the feelings I had initially upon realising that we had a pedophile in the forum, it wasnt so much disgust as a combination of OMG! and fear for the kids that come on here.

 

I cant say I agree with how you are, I have children of my own and I know I would do time for them if the need arose. But I have seen, curtesy of you, a different side. I can understand a little, not fully, but a little more than I did before that's for sure, I can see that though you have these feelings, the fact that you are so open about it to us in here is a kind of healing I think for you and us alike, and that above all you try very hard to keep your urges under control. I just wish all pedophiles had the control that you do, then parents like myself wouldnt be so frightened.

 

Yeah things in Germany are different from here in the UK, we do have tighter laws in some areas, but Germany too has its weird ones, or did have when I was stationed out there. For example our soft porn magazines are on the top shelf well out of the reach of kids, yours at that time (probably still are now) are head high to a child in a buggy, I know cos my two year old son at the time had one in his hand while I was in line to pay for my shopping, and yet you would get an on the spot fine for hanging your washing out and visible to others on a Sunday, and I think if memory serves, a garunteed fine if anyone saw your undies on the line at any time of the day. We are not stupid or idiots any more than you are, we just have different views on things, neither is wrong just different.

 

I hope you can accept what I have said in the way it has been written. I still dont think that any sexual activity between an adult and a child is acceptable, but I feel I know a little bit more about the subject than I did before.

[5614]

Merle Noir: I think it is safe to say that in (the majority of) Europe and the USA paedophilia is immoral.

 

There are always random cultures and tribes who do what to the rest of the world seems a bit strange, but lets not take them as a role model!

[merico]

hi one and all, this is my first post here, i simply decided to post here after reading this thread. i am as u are probably going to assume a boy lover or as the majority calls it a pedophile, its taking me a lot of confidence to post here to please listen to what i have to say b4 u shoot me down, im sure u will any way but thats ur opinion and its always valid even if i dont agree with it. i have also read nearly almost all the posts here to understand what is being discussed even tho thats taken me about 5 hours lol just to show my commitment.

 

Anyway back to the discussion it has been assumed here that a pedophile (argh i hate that word) is automatically a child molester, this is not so i have never touched a child neither will i ever, as this can have way to many psychology effects on the child, as this has already been dicussed here i wont bring up all the cases again. i also know of many other BL's that will never touch a child either, and never have. a majority of pedophiles will actually never touch a child and only wish to be there as a mentor.

 

However there are some pedophiles out there who do and as a BL i think this is wrong and something should be done about it, but this is only a very small majority of the pedophile population.

 

Also i can remember somewere in the past post the idea of isolation at birth being brought up, this is rediculis. i tried many methods of 'cureing' this feeling for many years (im only 18 so not that long really lol) and these were to non avile. however discovering a BL community online i was able to discuss my beliefs with people who believed the same, and as such have accepted myself for who i am this has helped me to live my life as 'normal' as possible.

 

there is no cure for this as many of u are saying get help, expecially one above the others but i will not bring them into my arguement. If there was there are meny BL's out there who would take it as living this life is very frustrateing knowing that u have a love which can never be expressed in any way which is acceptable to us (me) pr the majority of the population.

 

To bring up the AoC laws i dont believed they should be altered however i beliec that 18 + is to high to be an AoC. Thios has been debated to many times for me to argue it again as i agree with the AoC, even tho in some case a lot of boys are more sexually mature at 12/13 then a lot of adults at 16/17 .

 

I am willing to answer any questions u post as i know there will be loads lol, but i may take me a while to reply as i have a lot of work at the mo but i will check up when ever possible, im also sorry for the bad spelling as i was very emotional about this subject and wrote from the heart not the mind lol and also i just cant spell lol. thanks for listening and for actually thinking about another persons perspective b4 automatically shooting us down as many do.

 

thanks for being openminded even if a lot of points here refer to comon media sterotypes

 

Merico

[Merle Noir]

What if he was your own son and he was eight years old?

Well then ethically I would not have a problem as I am not hiding anything from anyone. Since I would be in a bit more position to tell my son who his friends should and should not be I would be a bit more inclined to tell my son that he maybe should not get so close to someone I have concerns with... just as I would do with anyone else that was wanting to be his friend that I had concern about.

 

I still dont think that any sexual activity between an adult and a child is acceptable, but I feel I know a little bit more about the subject than I did before.

Well so long as a child has no way of seeking out independent support for the relationship (s)he is in I completely agree. Any relationship that requires an element of secrecy has a problem to begin with.

 

Well I'm glad to know you feel you've learned more about the subject, the more you know about it the more likely your position will be correct... even if I or others may disagree with it.

 

Merle Noir: I think it is safe to say that in (the majority of) Europe and the USA paedophilia is immoral.

 

There are always random cultures and tribes who do what to the rest of the world seems a bit strange' date=' but lets not take them as a role model![/i']

Yes no doubt. But just because a society views something as immoral and another does not does not mean one is wrong and the other right. Nor does it mean that one society needs to change it's definition of morality.

[merico]

sorry in order to answer the original question

 

 

Do you think they are insane?

 

no i dont believe we are.

Do you think they are repeating a cycle of abuse?

 

no i dont believe abuse at childhood is the only way pedophiles are created or how they pass on abuse. i was never abused be it psycholgically or physically yet i am still a BL however i would never abuse a child. A lot of pedophiles wernt abused and yet are still pedophiles weather the abuse or not so know it is not the only way they are created however it must obviously contribute in one form or another.

 

Could pedophilia simply be another sexual preference?

 

yes i believe it is however it will never be accepted within my life time or for many to come.

 

Merico

[reverse]

Is this still going.

 

Too much to read.

 

Mr Noir,

you have obviously had lots of time to examine this subject inside out.

I suppose if it was my interest,

I could develop a counter- argument to every position you held,

and it would be like a game of chess.

Who knows how well you have justified your disposition to yourself.

I don’t want to treat you like a guineapig in a social experiment by asking you a bunch of invasive questions.

The thing is, we are not just reason.

Like yourself, we too are instinctive creatures.

We have a strong instinct to protect our young.

We will face the most severe dangers quickly and bravely to do so.

We will act without mercy.

Because we are the mob,

we sit just below the surface of any civilised society.

 

Don’t fill your brain with this junk, get another pastime.

Good luck.

[Sayonara]

Who is "we"?

[reverse]

Hi.

Please don't tempt me with definitions or language games,

you know I love those.

 

but ok.

 

that depends on what your definition of "is" is.

 

suppose you will get miffed with that answer.

 

ok then I mean everyone who is a parent or grandparent or caregiver.

 

nothing clever, more of a basic math "set" "subset" type definition.

[YT2095]

answer his question, it`s a perfectly reasonable one.

 

I for one would also like to know of this collective you refer to as "we"

[reverse]

sorry no conspiracy here .

 

better luck next time.

[YT2095]

so you can`t qualify your own post?

 

 

Is this still going.

 

Too much to read.

 

Mr Noir' date='

you have obviously had lots of time to examine this subject inside out.

I suppose if it was my interest,

I could develop a counter- argument to every position you held,

and it would be like a game of chess.

Who knows how well you have justified your disposition to yourself.

I don’t want to treat you like a guineapig in a social experiment by asking you a bunch of invasive questions.

The thing is, we are not just reason.

Like yourself, we too are instinctive creatures.

We have a strong instinct to protect our young.

We will face the most severe dangers quickly and bravely to do so.

We will act without mercy.

Because we are the mob,

we sit just below the surface of any civilised society.

 

Don’t fill your brain with this junk, get another pastime.

Good luck.[/quote']

 

and yet you expect him to accept it?

 

how Very Bizzare!

[reverse]

I'm not going to fight with you.

you aren’t the topic of this post.

 

I just don’t want Mr Noir to believe his own bs.

some truths are self evident.

[YT2095]

I'm not going to fight with you.

you aren’t the topic of this post.

 

I just don’t want Mr Noir to believe his own bs.

some truths are self evident.

 

No-one`s fighting anyone here, you were asked a simple enough question, to which you made an issue/challenge of.

 

you don`t want him to beleive his own bs, so you thought a "Flame" might help him?

 

and what "Truths" might those be?

[Sayonara]

Hi.

Please don't tempt me with definitions or language games' date='

you know I love those.

 

but ok.

 

that depends on what your definition of "is" is.

 

suppose you will get miffed with that answer.

 

ok then I mean everyone who is a parent or grandparent or caregiver.

 

nothing clever, more of a basic math "set" "subset" type definition.[/quote']

Who is this "we"?

[Dak]

once I get to know a child the sexual attraction becomes less and he becomes just a friend with very little sexual desire attached to the relationship.

do you think that its possible that the more you get to know the child, the more you realise how unready for sex he is? or maybe that you are attracted to the childs body but not there mind?

 

the closest analogy i can think of for me, is if i see a sexy woman, and then find out that their is no aspect of her personality that i find sexually attractive -- she will become less and less attractive to me as i get to know her better. im just curiouse as to why this seems to be the case with you when you get to know a child?

[SoFarAway]

First, welcome to the BB.

 

Thanks for the welcome and for replying to my post.

 

I carefully considered them and put them in the trash.

 

Okay. Can you please give me a synopsis of how you interpreted my previous post? Also, what thought process led you to discard my words?

 

Second, are you a pedohile too?

 

Yes.

 

i can see no reason why removing societys instinctive hatred of non-practacing paedophiles would do anything other than lead to less offences being commited.

 

Certainly. And if the hatred was removed, there would likely be more and more "non-practicing" pedophiles.

[reverse]

who do you mean by "were"? sp

 

I didn't know it was a flame, didn't mean it to be.

 

this is not a word game.

 

this is about real people in real trouble.

 

I will pay all the word games you want on another topic at a later date.

this is just not the right place to do that.

.

[reverse]

Who is this "we"?

The question has already been answered,

the is "is" quote was taken form a famous situation that encapsulates the BS that's going on here.