What is a pedophile?

[ezekiel23]

http://www.scienceforums.net/forums/showpost.php?p=161019&postcount=566

 

thank you klanger.

 

I think what we struggle with here is the actual word "pedophile" and what that cungures up in our minds. I was just like Bettina in my though pattern towards them, the word bought to my mind a lot of suffering and harm done to children. I kept seeing the faces of all the little girls that had been taken from their families sexually abused raped and murdered... these were the images I saw thought of and got angry about everytime a pedophile made comment in here which lead me to be totally blinkered to what they were saying. I now think that my initial reaction was wrong, I dont agree with adults having sex with children that is not what I am saying.

 

Let me reassure you that these images also horrify and anger me and many other paedophiles.

 

Guys? you need to find a new name for yourselves, pedophile somehow to me seems too harsh and inacurate.

 

There are already new words...the terms boylover and girllover are now common terminologies on the net to distinguish between what we are and child molestors. I stay away fom using them because, firstly I'm not too keen on the words themselves...secondly there are always comments like "you can try and soften it with words like 'boylover' all you want that doen't excuse anything." Such terms do exist, though.

[Bettina]

LOL, Bettina! How does it feel to have a scorpion wave his tail at you.

 

I don't mind, I get them all the time, but I know what the implications are. A child does not.

 

Bettina

[pariah]

sad to see that most of you have closed minds and have bought into all the social training regarding human sexuality. people really shouldnt talk about things they dont understand. it never ceases to amuse me how people give advice like they all have degrees in psychology as well as having an ESP ability that allows them to see into the hearts and minds of "deviants." yes,we know that there are disturbed individuals out there that rape and murder kids,and these few should be locked away,but they are a minority among a minority. most Minor Attracted Adults never harm a child and wouldnt even if there were no laws. thats the difference between a child lover and a child rapist. the words pedophile,rapist,child molester are used interchangeably,but that is wrong. just because you are a childlover doesnt mean you are also a rapist.

 

some of the ones who responded on here are young,teens at best. i would think that you of all people would resent the attitude that kids are so stupid that they dont know what they want and what is good for them. granted,no man should be trying to have sex with a 2 yr old,but by the time she is 12 or 13,she knows enough to say yes or no. our society insists on infantizing young people and treating them like annoying pets. is it really any wonder why so many kids have sexual contact with pedophiles? the pedo listens to the kid and makes them feel special. he shows them things that the other adults hide and lie about. most importantly,he treats them like a person instead of a decoration. and while he might have sexual feelings for them,his relationship with kids does not center around sex.

 

you should also know that there are many more "perverts" out there than people realize or are willing to admit. most males are aroused by young females whether they will admit it or not. id be willing to bet my life that there is at least one pedo in your circle of family and friends,and the statistics would confirm that. gays and pedophiles have been around since the beginning of recorded history(and before) and only recently became demonized. in the early 20th century,the legal age of consent was 10 in some states,and child porn was legal clear up until the early 80's. creating more laws to stop pedophiles will only frustrate them and turn more of the passive ones into the ones that hurt kids. sexual repression does not cure society of sexual deviants,it creats new ones. im glad that more groups like this one are becoming willing to talk about this sensitive subject,but most of your "expert" information is way off base. i hope some of you at least are smart enough to not believe everything you hear on tv and realize that the "save the children"

campaign is more about money and politics than it is about protecting children from the bad pedos. every generation needs a public scapegoat. so far we have used witches,women,blacks,communists,and gays. now we are using pedophiles as the newest boogey man. as long as the government keeps us in fear of each other,they are free to raid the coffers and strip us of our rights when we are not paying attention. wake up people. you have more important things to worry about than the lonely man down the street. try doing your civic duty and holding the government accountable for a change before you wake up one morning and realize you are in a police state. laugh if you want.

history repeats itself...

[reverse]

yea,

 

ok guys,

enough of your hobbies,

 

what's your opinion on Michael Jackson?

[pariah]

1. he was convicted before his trial thanks too the media and other ignorant people

 

2. after what happened the first time he was a fool to allow himself to be set up like that again by people who are just looking for a payday.

 

3. i believe(opinion,not documented fact) that he is a boylover that may have had mild sexual contact with some of the boys. i believe that if there was contact,the kids were not forced,they allowed it to happen because they like MJ and think he is cool. he did not take advantage of the kids but should have been smart enough to realize that others would insist he did because that is what people NEED to believe.

 

4. since it is such a high profile case,they are trying hard to make an example out of him to discourage future celebrities from engaging in said behavior or trying to normalize it. after all,he said that there was nothing wrong with sleeping with kids in your bed. this was spit in the eye to all hysterical self-serving child protection advocates.

 

5. it will be interesting to see the fallout if he goes free a second time. i hope he does because i really dont think he is the dangerous type...

[Baldur]

Heres One Arguement For While Pedophilia Isn't Longterm' date=' True Love. Children Grow Up! Will You Still Want Them When They Are All Grown Up?

[/quote']

 

In my memory, the first girl I remember meeting who was younger than myself was a newborn baby in a crib when I was about 4. She was always fairly obnoxious and way too confident in her abilities (though she IS very capable), and is now grown up and out - she is very fat. What is more, she has strong, strange, religious beliefs.

 

I still love her.

 

Another girl from my memory was absolute perfection when she was about 11 or 12 years old. She is 5 years older than me.

 

I still love her.

 

I am no longer sexually attracted to either one, but I still love them both - and every other girl I ever admired.

 

Does that answer your question?

 

 

Baldur

[Baldur]

As a pragmatic member of society' date=' when it comes to removing antisocial elements I know that the following methods are available.

 

acceptance.

non acceptance.

punishment.

imprisonment.

hospitalisation

Medication.

Death.

[/quote']

 

Interesting. When the day comes to remove you, which method do you prefer?

 

Sir, may I ask for your opinion on Michael Jackson?

 

Certainly. I never much liked Michael Jackson's music (with a couple exceptions), but I thought he was an excellent dancer. "Captain Eo" was very well done.

 

I consider him to be rather strange, but not in a bad sense.

 

I believe he is probably a boy lover, and I believe he would never harm a boy - or anyone else. (Except, perhaps, in self-defense, or the defense of others.)

 

 

Baldur

[Baldur]

LOL' date=' Bettina! How does it feel to have a scorpion wave his tail at you.

[/quote']

 

I don't mind, I get them all the time, but I know what the implications are. A child does not.

 

Ooh! I'm a big bad scorpion! Shake in fear, my victims!

 

Aww. Poor little misunderstood scorpion.

 

I'm quite nice, actually.

 

Except to mean, nasty, brutish donkeys that try to stomp on me.

 

 

 

Baldur

[Callipygous]

Ooh! I'm a big bad scorpion! Shake in fear' date=' my victims!

 

Aww. Poor little misunderstood scorpion.

 

I'm quite nice, actually.

 

Except to mean, nasty, brutish donkeys that try to stomp on me.[/quote']

 

 

that and any child you damage because you mistakenly believed they were mature enough to have even the faintest clue what they really want.

[john5746]

When Sayonara reopened this thread' date=' I thought he was a jerk. But now, I know he wasn't. By reopening it, I got a feel for what the pedophile is going through and I have said so. I really do feel bad for you. I have come a long way from calling you a (self censored) and I am learning.

[/quote']

 

I think we have learned all we need to learn. If someone is a pedophile, they have a mental disorder. They should seek treatment. If they don't do that, they should avoid children.

[Kylonicus]

You might still look into progesterone regular.

 

Progesterone even if taken with testosterone and estrogen will make you inhospitable to children.

 

It's been shown in mice.

 

So even if you keep your sex drive, it won't be for children, you'll just be inhospitable towards them.

[Coral Rhedd]

most Minor Attracted Adults never harm a child and wouldnt even if there were no laws. thats the difference between a child lover and a child rapist. the words pedophile' date='rapist,child molester are used interchangeably,but that is wrong. just because you are a childlover doesnt mean you are also a rapist.

[/quote']

 

The betrayal of trust by someone they know well is often much more difficult for children to deal with emotionally. Children who are victims of pedophiles are also manipulated. Let's not pretend we are all naive. Pedophiles have to convince children not to tell. How do you suppose they do that?

 

Oh, I forgot. You probably already know.

 

the pedo listens to the kid and makes them feel special. he shows them things that the other adults hide and lie about. most importantly,he treats them like a person instead of a decoration. and while he might have sexual feelings for them,his relationship with kids does not center around sex.

But if he has any sexual activity with a child, one of the purposes of the relationship is sex. But your paragraph above was absolutely great. I have been telling people for years that the person most likely to molest their children is the guy who wants to spend more time with the kid than they do. You have described only one of the ways pedophiles seduce kids -- by making them feel special -- but it is one that is the point of all the other behaviors. Things like showing them special pictures, giving them gifts, and taking them to amusement parks.

 

Parents need to know that the pedophile who may molest their children usually doesn't look like Michael Jackson, but has every motive in the world for looking pretty much like everybody else.

 

Pedophiles in this thread have been emphasizing how "normal" they are. I hope parents reading this take heed. The person most likely to molest your child will seem very normal indeed. Maybe even rather smooth. That person will be almost the last person you would suspect.

 

you should also know that there are many more "perverts" out there than people realize or are willing to admit.

 

We certainly agree on that.

 

id be willing to bet my life that there is at least one pedo in your circle of family and friends,and the statistics would confirm that.

 

Yes indeedy. There is probably at least one on this forum. The one who summoned you guys to come to the defense of pedophiles who are so brutally maligned by people who would rather not have them touching their children. In fact, a close reading of this thread will allow the reader to glean an interesting inkling.

 

gays and pedophiles have been around since the beginning of recorded history(and before) and only recently became demonized.

 

I suspect there are many decent gay folks who almost throw up when they think of pedophiles equating themselves with gays. Gays have sex with other adults who are capable of giving relatively informed consent to the relationship. Pedophiles have sex with children. And we don't need to quibble about what we mean by the word "sex" do we.? A former U.S. President got into a bit of trouble because he wanted play semantics about the meaning of the word sex.

 

creating more laws to stop pedophiles will only frustrate them and turn more of the passive ones into the ones that hurt kids. sexual repression does not cure society of sexual deviants,it creats new ones.

 

Consider if someone made this argument: "It should be okay for men to put their hands up women's skirts and fondle their vaginas whether whether women want them to or not. We can always say afterwards that the women really wanted it. And not allowing men to do this only frustrates them and turns passive men into men that may hurt women."

 

Sound familiar? It is an age old justification for rape.

 

im glad that more groups like this one are becoming willing to talk about this sensitive subject,but most of your "expert" information is way off base. i hope some of you at least are smart enough to not believe everything you hear on tv and realize that the "save the children"

 

Interesting that you should mention television. I don't watch television, but I do know children who have had contact with pedophiles because -- as a CASA (Court-Appointed Special Advocate for children) -- I have interviewed pedophiles and gotten to know well a few children who have been their victims. I have seen first hand the damage that a molesting (one who sexually touches a child) pedophile does. This abuse can go on and on for a long period of time. The damage is often greater than out and out one time penetration in the act of rape.

 

Pedophiles would understandably like to reserve the word rape for some sort of brutal penetration, claiming that other sexual activities are harmless. Nothing could be further from the truth.

 

campaign is more about money and politics than it is about protecting children from the bad pedos. every generation needs a public scapegoat. so far we have used witches,women,blacks,communists,and gays. now we are using pedophiles as the newest boogey man. as long as the government keeps us in fear of each other,they are free to raid the coffers and strip us of our rights when we are not paying attention. wake up people. you have more important things to worry about than the lonely man down the street.

 

What a peculiar call to arms. I especially like the part about "the lonely man down the street." How apt. There is probably a pedophile in most neighborhoods. Are you lonely man?

[Guest WMMBS]

Dear All,

 

I am a PhD in Science, presently studying Law and Criminology.

 

I am also an ex-offender for possessing indecent images of children.

 

You may wish to visit my site:

 

http://www.madbadorsad.org

 

and the more active forum:

 

http://madbadorsad.org/sadbbs

 

I am happy to answer most questions, here or there.

 

All the best.

 

WM

MBS?

http://www.madbadorsad.org

[ezekiel23]

Consider if someone made this argument: "It should be okay for men to put their hands up women's skirts and fondle their vaginas whether whether women want them to or not. We can always say afterwards that the women really wanted it. And not allowing men to do this only frustrates them and turns passive men into men that may hurt women."

 

Sound familiar? It is an age old justification for rape.

and there is the difference between your and our arguments.

[merico]

hey Coral, i just read ur post and for some unknown reason u seem to have gone back to many sterotypes that have already been disproved.

 

suspect there are many decent gay folks who almost throw up when they think of pedophiles equating themselves with gays.

 

the arguemnet about gays was mentioned because untill recently gays were prosicuated because of their beliefs and actions, and also untill recently homosexuality was also classed as a mental disorder and it is only now recently been accepted that it isnt.

 

Yes indeedy. There is probably at least one on this forum. The one who summoned you guys to come to the defense of pedophiles who are so brutally maligned by people who would rather not have them touching their children. In fact, a close reading of this thread will allow the reader to glean an interesting inkling

 

i was not summonered here by anyone, i know no one on this board i posted here to defend by beliefs and also to offer another perspective to ur arguement. if u do not want it i will stop posting, i thought u as u started this thread would value our opinion weather or not u agree with it is another mattor, but it is another perepective to ponder. As i have enjoyed reading ur posts and although i havnt been involved directly i believe u have a wider understand of our belifs, as i have understood ur arguements.

 

Also u seem manily to be posting in reply to ezekiel23 posts, i personally do not agree with them as he seem to be promoting sex between minors and adults as right whatever age. I however and nearly all pedophiles i know personally would never accept sex between adults and minors as right. this is simply because u are unable to analyse the childs psychological actions and as such u do not know if it will harm a child. However i do believe that most 12 and 13 yr olds are capable of making up their own mind. Having never allowed myself to get into this situation i cant really comment further on it.

 

Also once again u are sterotyping cartain beliefs u have about us and then generlising them to the rest of the pedophile population.

 

Pedophiles would understandably like to reserve the word rape for some sort of brutal penetration, claiming that other sexual activities are harmless. Nothing could be further from the truth

 

Again u have used the media's defination of pedophile, as it has been established here only a very small part of the pedophile population would ever act on their beliefs and be sexual with a child, these are the ones that are prosicuated and so should be locked up. However u do not hear about the bl/gl who have these beliefs and do not act on them and as an estimate is about 95 percent of of pedophiles. u dont have to believe that figour as i have nothing to back it up with it is simply an estimate having talked about this with others.

 

And also u dont know how much attention this debate has raised it is being discussed on numerious bl boards and i assume many gl boards, but not being a gl i cant comment. A lot of people are really interested that u are willing to discuss something where people would normally simply jump to preconcieved ideas and ignore any points raised. I just thought i would mention this as someone had preciously mentioned the high view count.

 

merico

[ezekiel23]

Also u seem manily to be posting in reply to ezekiel23 posts, i personally do not agree with them as he seem to be promoting sex between minors and adults as right whatever age. I however and nearly all pedophiles i know personally would never accept sex between adults and minors as right. this is simply because u are unable to analyse the childs psychological actions and as such u do not know if it will harm a child. However i do believe that most 12 and 13 yr olds are capable of making up their own mind. Having never allowed myself to get into this situation i cant really comment further on it.

Hey, I agree too. I am not trying to promote adult/child sex as such. I am only trying to defend the actions of people who by my standards did nothing wrong but in the eyes of the law are unqustionably criminals. I ask questions and people do not answer them. I still wish to know the ill effects adult/child sex has had on children (obviously not those who were subject to rape but to consensual sex), also on what basis people think adult/child sex is immoral and indeed their definitions of morals to go with it. Arguing semantics is also something Coral seems not to want to get into, but I think, yes, is necessary. I brought this up before in fact but nobody replied to it and I since deleted that post. Anal sex is clearly a world away from masturbation, for example. There are still more points that haven't even been considered yet - what if a child would in fact turn out to be gay, and was acting on his instincts as he come into pubity?

 

I have presented different sides to the argument, situations in which I think adult/child sex could be harmful and why. I have challenged views with arguments I think are perfectly reasonable, but have as yet had no feedback as to why they might not be valid - people have tramped on saying the same things that have already been said time after time in this thread. I have said several times that I am only talking about a tiny percentage of cases and that I only believe it it could ever be right if the child was not coerced into it. It could be self moderating really: Would a two year old child ever ask for sex? Would a seven year old child? The probability of it is so small, it's never realistically going to happen. What about a twelve year old? Still extremely unlikely, but reasonable enough to assume it could happen on occasion.

 

We have clearly got past the point in this discussion where people blindly return to media stereotypes - don't get me wrong, I am very happy about that. Now people are saying they are acceptant that people have no choice as to their paedophilia, but (from what I understand at least) in no case will they accept paedophilic sex can be right. I am simply trying to challenge this view, and I apologise if I seem forceful or I come across like I advocate adult/child sex in the majority of cases. In the end it is the child's body and the child's decision, not the adult's.

[GreenDestiny]

I think what we struggle with here is the actual word "pedophile" and what that cungures up in our minds. I was just like Bettina in my though pattern towards them' date=' the word bought to my mind a lot of suffering and harm done to children. I kept seeing the faces of all the little girls that had been taken from their families sexually abused raped and murdered... these were the images I saw thought of and got angry about everytime a pedophile made comment in here which lead me to be totally blinkered to what they were saying.

[/quote']

 

Yes, I completely understand what you are saying. Actually, I felt the same way for some time. When I realized that I am a pedophile and that it is not just a "phase" or some other rationalization you can make up (), I really had problems identifying with that term. It even took me some time until I was able to type the words "I am a pedophile" or something like that. It's just that this term has very negative connotations in today's society and in the media it is usually used as a synonym for child molesters or even worse individuals. Actually, I still don't like it that much and don't identify with the term that much, but looking at it from a scientific perspective it is indeed correct and only its usage by many people is often incorrect. If you look at the word it only consists of "pedo"=child and "phileo"=love, so it only describes the affection.

 

Well, anyway I am glad that some people look at it from a different perspective now - I think it was really worth it posting on this thread then.

 

@Coral Rhedd: Why is there so much anger and hate in your postings? I wouldn't expect that you completely changed your mind, but I think that your perspective is extremely one-sided. Apart from that, so much hate cannot be healthy anyway, so maybe you should calm a bit down.

 

Or did you have negative experiences as a child yourself? Of course the situation would be different then... I'd understand that.

[Merle Noir]

Pedophiles would understandably like to reserve the word rape[/b'] for some sort of brutal penetration, claiming that other sexual activities are harmless. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Care to back that up with something other then your word that it is so. Everything I have ever read indicates that while certainly there is no predictable outcome from such relationships, and harm is a risk. However harm when present... and outside clinical and criminal research shows that harm is not all that common (typically about 75% in collage studies report no harm), is caused by either an element of coercion ,force or non-voluntary participation. Those cases that do not involve coercion and force but where harm has been done, the harm is largely due to feelings of guilt due to sexuall taboos or the reactions of adults, the courts and police that learn of the relationship.

 

Thomas D. Oellerich, Department of Social Work, Ohio University:

 

"The notion that child sexual abuse is a "destroyer" of mental health has been based largely on studies involving clinical samples. But even these, if objectively considered, indicated that child sexual abuse is neither necessarily nor usually psychologically harmful. That is, for the vast majority child sexual abuse is not a "destroyer" of mental health at any age...the widespread belief that child sexual abuse necessarily and usually causes psychological damage is a myth."

 

Coral Rhedd I'm wondering since it sounds to me that you are basing your opinion on your experience as a CASA how many victims you see of pedophiles do you see that did not involve anything inappropriate aside from the person being a pedophile? Just so I can get a feel for how accurately your work lets you see the non-offenders, or if your basing your POV on those that offend and extrapolating that information out to fit those outside your POV.

 

As well how prevelent do you think pedophilia is within society. Put another way what percentage of people are pedophiles?

 

What a peculiar call to arms. I especially like the part about "the lonely man down the street." How apt. There is probably a pedophile in most neighborhoods. Are you lonely man?

Hehe, nope not since I accepted my self instead of letting people like you beat me down. I'm blessed with many many friends.

[pariah]

after reading your reply,it is obvious that you still believe everything you have ever heard about the big bad pedos. all groups regardless of age,sex,religion or orientation have good and bad apples. noone here is denying the fact that some people abuse kids,and its not only restricted to pedos. i happen to know some "normal" parents in my hood who routinely abuse their kids on a daily basis. do they get molested? no. do they get beaten? no. but the parents manipulate the kids all the time using fear and guilt. they treat the kids like mindless property. they lie to the kids. they teach the kids to fear sex. they teach the kids to not trust anyone and to be supicious of everything. perhaps you grew up in such a home? you seem a little hostile to me. sexually repressed people usually are,and they usually have deviant fantasies that they bury deep down and never talk about. its no wonder our society is so dysfunctional. noone knows how to be honest,and if you cant be honest and try to seek truth instead of recycling the same ol BS,then you prolly shouldnt be a parent. you should be teaching the kids to think for themselves,but of course this would disrupt the system and destroy the parents control over their living property wouldnt it?

dont act like you know me. you all but called me a child abuser just because my views differ from yours. ignorant people usually resort to name calling when someone bests them in an arguement. ill have you know that i am with an adult woman who is in her 30's. i have no criminal record,im not on the sex offender witch hunt list,and i dont molest kids. lets be adults here Mr/Ms CASA member,if you can. anyone who loves kids would not initiate sex with them in our current hysterical environment. the man that goes to jail is not the only one who gets hurt by all the BS that follows.

people want to stick all the pedos into one bag and all the victims in another bag because people are selfish and lazy and dont want to take the time to do it right. too much effort i guess. such is the nature of the human race. not all pedos are the same and not all kids are permanently traumatized by a sexual encounter. each person reacts to the situation differently. in the cases where the child was not violently raped but gave "passive" consent,the damage done to the child doesnt come from the act itself,but from the social training as well as the reaction of the adults around the child. if people would stop fearing sex(i hold the church personally responsible for this evil,sick mind game) and stop terrorizing their kids about it,there would be no trauma unless the kid was actually held down against their will,which rarely happens anyway.

you also need to stop seeing hidden motives all around you. just because a pedo enjoys spending time with a child does not mean all his efforts are aimed at eventually getting the kid to "perform." making them feel good is not a trick. i guess because most normal adults have hidden motivations for being nice to other adults when they want sex you assume it is the same for pedos.

well...assume away. you know what they say about assumptions...

the reason why most pedos seem normal to us as you suggest,is because they are normal. they work,go to school,pay taxes,get married,and have families. THEY ARE YOU! they dont wear trench coats. they dont all live with their mommy. they dont hang around school yards. they live within all levels of society. some of them are cops,lawyers,doctors,government officials,military brass,etc. cling to your stereotypes if you must. i know its fun to scare yourselves. thats why so many people love horror movies. "oh my gosh,the enemy is everywhere!"

now,since people on here like to brag about degrees and victim services positions like it means everything,let me tell you that most people these days are educated idiots. just because you have a degree doesnt mean you have it all figured out. every person i have met in my life who has a 4 years degree or higher has absolutely NO common sense,and they also seem to have selective memory when it comes to their own childhood. i lived in a small town when i was growing up. there was several things going on at all times.

spouses cheated on each other with neighbors. kids snuck away to play sex games with other kids. some people played with animals. and of course,we also had several pedos in our hood. i cant count the number of kids i had sex-play with,but i do know that i had encounters with 2 adults. i can also tell you that most of the kids in that hood also had some type of sex with adults. i can also tell you that it is far more common than people are willing to admit. i have spoken with most of the kids that i played with after they became adults and they are fine. they didnt go to jail,they didnt grow up to rape kids,and they are not on drugs. neither am i. as far as i know,none of the teens got pregnant,and noone got a disease. i have been tested for aids and herpes. nada. so much for the statistics. is it possible that i was just lucky? maybe. is it probable that we were all lucky? not likely.

you have a set view on sex and child abuse and i dont think anyone is going to be able to de-program your social dependency training so i wont bother. you have your views and i have mine. consider this one thing however: people love to go on about how dangerous pedos are,but how dangerous is a person who accepts second hand info as gospel when they dont have any practical experience in it themselves just because it is popular,and then refuses to examine any new info when it becomes available? its the narrow minded zealots that have hurt the most people throughout history. this is just another witch hunt which will eventually blow over,but not before it destroys many peoples lives. i wonder who will be the next public scapegoat? necrophiles maybe? zoophiles? when will society learn to look at themselves before attacking others? so many pretend christians out there. many people have a surprise coming. did you forget Jesus' message? i think so. and for those "smart,educated" men and women who claim they dont believe,what about simple human decency? i guess the human race lacks that too. i hope we all burn out and mother nature starts over. i dont see any hope for the human race...

[pariah]

Originally Posted by Coral Rhedd

"What a peculiar call to arms. I especially like the part about "the lonely man down the street." How apt. There is probably a pedophile in most neighborhoods. Are you lonely man?"

 

"Hehe, nope not since I accepted my self instead of letting people like you beat me down. I'm blessed with many many friends."

 

 

 

yes,well said. and remember,a pedo sympathizer is the same as an actual pedo,so you have many friends indeed. people love to classify other people into neat and tidy little packages dont they? too bad the human race isnt neat and tidy.

 

ah well,they refuse to see the change coming. it never changes. how was your alice day?

[Baldur]

that and any child you damage because you mistakenly believed they were mature enough to have even the faintest clue what they really want.

 

Tell me, if I'm the scorpion, does that make you the ass?

 

 

Baldur

[Baldur]

You might still look into progesterone regular.

 

Progesterone even if taken with testosterone and estrogen will make you inhospitable to children.

 

It's been shown in mice.

 

So even if you keep your sex drive' date=' it won't be for children, you'll just be inhospitable towards them.[/quote']

 

Sounds to me more like a recipe for making monsters: Make people inhospitable to those they are attracted to? Sounds like hetero-teleio men and women.

 

 

Baldur

[pariah]

ooops,i forgot to address one of your questions...

 

 

about keeping secrets: everyone keeps secrets,so why do you think kids would be so traumatized by it? everyone lies...so why do you think kids would be traumatized by lying? they are part of the human race arent they? thats the problem...people dont treat kids as humans with feelings.

 

 

when i was "abused" (your word not mine) in my old hood,i knew that if the guy got violent or too annoying i could always tell on him,but i didnt see the point. i was having fun and he was nice to me. he was my friend. (we did many other things besides sex FYI) at 10 i was smart enough to know how to keep him in line and whether or not i wanted him to get in trouble. i kept his secret not because he ever asked me to but because i knew if certain people found out that it would end. he never made me do anything i wasnt ready to do. now,if i was capable of making these decisions on my own at 10 while keeping it a secret and sneaking around behind my parents backs to have sex in private with him and other kids,dont you think other kids could figure that out as well? im sure im not the only kid in history that ever asked an adult for sexual contact. again,i didnt grow up to rape kids,im not on drugs,and i live a normal life. furthermore,i have been around kids that have been very suggestive towards me as an adult,and i had to put a stop to it immediately for fear that someone would think we had already done something. i simply told them quite honestly "do you want me to go to jail?" to which they reply simply,"no." so i said,"then please dont do that anymore. the world is full of stupid adults that would cause problems for us both." then i get a smile and a hug with a simple "ok." thats the end of it. but im sure they find a willing adult who doesnt care about the law.

 

were these kids "abused?" the older ones perhaps. i think the younger ones were just curious to see how i would react. if a 5 year old asks if she can watch you pee because she is curious about the male gender,how does a professional like yourself handle it? do you overreact? most adults would yell at her and then give her the "your body is a private thing and that is innappropriate" speech which may stun her temporarily but will only serve to increase her curiosity in the long run which means you have virtually guaranteed that she will start experimenting to find out what the big secret is.

 

you and i both know that if you leave two kids alone together long enough they will show each other their pee pees,and this happens also with kids that have not been "abused."

 

sooner or later the human race is going to have to stop avoiding child sexuality and learn to deal with it.

 

this is 2005. get your heads out of the dark ages...

[Baldur]

The betrayal of trust by someone they know well is often much more difficult for children to deal with emotionally.

 

Yes, but does a pedophile really betray a child's trust? Or do their parents betray the child's trust when they prevent sexual education and/or experimentation, when they turn against the child's older friend, and when they subject the child to an inquisition in the name of "saving" them?

 

I suspect there are many decent gay folks who almost throw up when they think of pedophiles equating themselves with gays.

 

Then they're really not very decent' date=' are they?

 

Gays have sex with other adults who are capable of giving relatively informed consent to the relationship. Pedophiles have sex with children. And we don't need to quibble about what we mean by the word "sex" do we.? A former U.S. President got into a bit of trouble because he wanted play semantics about the meaning of the word sex.

 

I think this makes it obvious: You don't have a problem with pedophiles, you have a problem with SEX. Despite the sexual revolution, you still just don't feel very comfortable with this part of human nature. You presume there is something WRONG with sex that makes it unsuitable for children. You would starve children of this necessary part of their lives. I know how miserable you would make children - I grew up in that sort of environment, where sexuality was something that one never talked about or admitted desiring. People like you did a lot of harm to me when I was young.

 

Consider if someone made this argument: "It should be okay for men to put their hands up women's skirts and fondle their vaginas whether whether women want them to or not. We can always say afterwards that the women really wanted it. And not allowing men to do this only frustrates them and turns passive men into men that may hurt women."

 

No' date=' the proper comparison would be: Consider if someone made this argument: "It should be okay . . . if and only if women want them to. And not allowing men and women to interact in this way only frustrates them and turns gentle people into hurtful people."

 

Sound familiar? It is an age old justification for rape.

 

Actually, I have NEVER heard or seen this "justification" before. And I've been a lot of places and read an awful lot. Just because your feminist masters (mistresses?) tell you something bad about men, doesn't make it so.

 

Pedophiles would understandably like to reserve the word rape for some sort of brutal penetration' date=' claiming that other sexual activities are harmless. Nothing could be further from the truth.

[/quote']

 

Actually, I think we'd like to reserve the word "rape" for what it is. Sex with an unwilling partner. Or the seed of a turnip. Either one.

 

 

 

Baldur

[Baldur]

Would a two year old child ever ask for sex?

 

No, two year old children just take it. I know - a two year old girl once used me as a sex toy. Yes, I was just sitting there, her mother and my mother were there, and she just came over and started bouncing up and down on my leg. I didn't understand what was going on at the time, and neither apparently did our mothers - and I was a little afraid for her when I saw that glassy look in her eyes - but later I found out that that was from her orgasm.

 

Would a seven year old child?

 

Actually, a number of posters on the GL boards have reported having to turn down seven year old girls that have tried to seduce them - some very, very blatantly. It seems that girls become interested in sex at a younger age than boys (on average). One woman I know told me that she has wanted sex with men since she was four.

 

In the end it is the child's body and the child's decision, not the adult's.

 

Damn straight!

 

 

 

Baldur