Should colleges discontinue "career-less" majors?

[Elite Engineer]

My friend recently finished college in the spring with a degree in....drum roll...you'll never guess..."Outdoor Recreation". Seriously, what career does this kind of major

 

provide? It's more of a bad joke than a bad major. Sadly, this is just one of the many majors that will land college grads into crippling debt. I believe

 

colleges have an obligation to discontinue a service that does not benefit the whole of it's students. Lets be honest, no high school graduate goes to college to "enhance

 

their minds and enrich their thinking". We all go to college to get a higher paying career, period. A bachelors degree alone should be sufficient to get a gaduate a

 

decent job in the market than can start a professional career. How can you argue that a BA/BS in outdoor recreation, sports studies, creative writing, art history and

 

eventually history, pyschology, and even english can lead to a sustainable, professional career for a college grad. College is a vehicle to make yourself more

 

marketable. If the college cannot honestly do that with these courses, shouldn't they discontinue these degrees?

 

~ee

[ydoaPs]

Were degrees intended to furnish a career?

[Elite Engineer]

Were degrees intended to furnish a career?

If you want to learn, buy a book. If you want to earn, get a degree.

[ydoaPs]

If you want to learn, buy a book. If you want to earn, get a degree.

That doesn't answer the question.

[Elite Engineer]

That doesn't answer the question.

An investment in applicable skills, i.e. a degree is meant to furnish a career..so yes.

[ydoaPs]

Indiana University:

"Its mission is to create, disseminate, preserve, and apply knowledge. It does so through its commitments to cutting-edge research, scholarship, arts, and creative activity; to challenging and inspired undergraduate, graduate, professional, and lifelong education; to culturally diverse and international educational programs and communities; to first-rate library and museum collections; to economic development in the state and region; and to meaningful experiences outside the classroom."-Mission Statement

 

Purdue University:

"The mission of Purdue University is to serve the citizens of Indiana, the United States, and the world through discovery that expands the realm of knowledge, learning through dissemination and preservation of knowledge, and engagement through exchange of knowledge."-Mission Statement

 

Harvard:

"Harvard University is devoted to excellence in teaching, learning, and research, and to developing leaders in many disciplines who make a difference globally."-About Harvard (Harvard has no official mission statement)

 

Yale:

"Like all great research universities, Yale has a tripartite mission: to create, preserve, and disseminate knowledge."-Mission Statement

 

So, what's the point of university?

 

An investment in applicable skills, i.e. a degree is meant to furnish a career..so yes.

Says who?

 

If you want to learn, get a degree. If you want to earn, get a plumber's license.

[Elite Engineer]

 

If you want to learn, get a degree. If you want to earn, get a plumber's license.

University at Buffalo Mission statement: "We view the tripartite mission of the public university – research,

education, and public service – not as separate or discrete actions, but as interdependent activities

continually informing and enriching each other. As a public research university, we value our

institutional responsibility to bring the benefits of our research, scholarship, and teaching excellence

to the members of our local and world communities in ways that enhance both our understanding of

our world and the quality of life for all people".

 

For psychology majors, provided by UB:

 

"Salaries range greatly from one occupation, position, and work setting to another. According to the 2013 NACE national salary survey for bachelor's degree graduates in psychology, the average salary was $37,400, with salaries ranging from $30,200 to $44,000."

 

-Why include career salaries if the mission statement of the university is to "...enhance both our understanding of our world and the quality of life for all people."

[ydoaPs]

University at Buffalo Mission statement: "We view the tripartite mission of the public university – research,

education, and public service – not as separate or discrete actions, but as interdependent activities

continually informing and enriching each other. As a public research university, we value our

institutional responsibility to bring the benefits of our research, scholarship, and teaching excellence

to the members of our local and world communities in ways that enhance both our understanding of

our world and the quality of life for all people".

Emphasis mine.

 

 

-Why include career salaries if the mission statement of the university is to "...enhance both our understanding of our world and the quality of life for all people."

Why not?

[MigL]

Actually, even plumbers have to learn before they earn.

Learning, and knowledge in general, enhances the quality of life.

It is not simply a way to earn greater compensation.

(as all the retired people who go back to school will attest to )

[iNow]

Should colleges discontinue "career-less" majors?

(Leaving aside for a moment your attempt to poison the well...) Absolutely not. A thousand times, no, and the case for avoiding this is brilliantly argued in this book:

 

In Defense of a Liberal Education - Fareed Zakaria

 

http://fareedzakaria.com/books/in-defense-of-a-liberal-education/

The liberal arts are under attack. The governors of Texas, Florida, and North Carolina have announced that they will not spend taxpayer money subsidizing the liberal arts. Majors like English, once very popular and highly respected, are in steep decline. President Obama recently urged students to keep in mind that technical training could be more valuable than a degree in art history.

 

In this urgently needed book, Fareed Zakaria argues that this turn away from the liberal arts is a mistake. A liberal education teaches you how to write, how to speak your mind, and how to learnimmensely valuable tools no matter your profession. Technology and globalization are actually making these skills even more valuable as routine mechanical and even computing tasks can be done by machines or workers in low-wage countries. More than just a path to a career, a liberal education is an exercise in freedom. Above all, it is an expression of the most basic urge of the human spiritto know.

http://www.amazon.com/Defense-Liberal-Education-Fareed-Zakaria/dp/0393247686/

"I get it," writes Fareed Zakaria, recalling the atmosphere in India where he grew up, which was even more obsessed with getting a skills-based education. However, the CNN host and best-selling author explains why this widely held view is mistaken and shortsighted.

 

Zakaria eloquently expounds on the virtues of a liberal arts education―how to write clearly, how to express yourself convincingly, and how to think analytically. He turns our leaders' vocational argument on its head. American routine manufacturing jobs continue to get automated or outsourced, and specific vocational knowledge is often outdated within a few years. Engineering is a great profession, but key value-added skills you will also need are creativity, lateral thinking, design, communication, storytelling, and, more than anything, the ability to continually learn and enjoy learning―precisely the gifts of a liberal education.

 

Zakaria argues that technology is transforming education, opening up access to the best courses and classes in a vast variety of subjects for millions around the world. We are at the dawn of the greatest expansion of the idea of a liberal education in human history.

Edited November 11, 2015 by iNow

[Ophiolite]

My friend recently finished college in the spring with a degree in....drum roll...you'll never guess..."Outdoor Recreation". Seriously, what career does this kind of major provide? It's more of a bad joke than a bad major. Sadly, this is just one of the many majors that will land college grads into crippling debt.

In many countries this would secure a job with local councils (municipal authorities in trans-Atlantic speak?) administering their parks, sports facilities and the like. Do you feel that is not a worthwhile career?

 

 

I believe colleges have an obligation to discontinue a service that does not benefit the whole of it's students.

I am not clear how classes on microbiology would benefit a civil engineer, so we had better discontinue the microbiolgy. (And if we conduct classes in tents, we can discontinue the civil engineering on the same grounds.)

 

 

Lets be honest, no high school graduate goes to college to "enhance their minds and enrich their thinking". We all go to college to get a higher paying career, period.

Bollocks! That is precisely why I went to university. I had acquired an interest in geology and I wanted to know more.

 

 

A bachelors degree alone should be sufficient to get a gaduate a decent job in the market than can start a professional career. How can you argue that a BA/BS in outdoor recreation, sports studies, creative writing, art history and eventually history, pyschology, and even english can lead to a sustainable, professional career for a college grad.

1. I have already dealt with the outdoor recreation.

2. Coaches, personal trainers, PE teachers, sports journalists, etc would all find a sports studies degree a benefit to careers in those fields.

3. A creative writing degree could provide the skill set to become a published novelist, a teacher, a prolific writer of magazine articles,etc. At the very least it would reduce the risk that two sentences in an online forum would contain three egregious spelling errors.

4. An Art History degree opens up the possibility of working as a museum curator, an author, a role in advertising, a teacher, etc.

5. Historians have found employment in the intelligence services, journalism, publishing, local and national government departments responsible for historical buildings, etc.

6. If you doubt that there are psychologists employed by governments, health services, educational establishments, sporting organisations, advertising agencies, industry, etc, then you need your head examined.......by a psychologist.

7. With a degree in English careers open up in teaching, advertising, publishing and many more areas.

 

College is a vehicle to make yourself more marketable.

The vehicle does not have a single destination, despite what you erroneously think.

 

If the college cannot honestly do that with these courses, shouldn't they discontinue these degrees?

Absolutely not.

 

Lets be honest, no high school graduate goes to college to "enhance their minds and enrich their thinking".

Clearly you didn't go to college to enhance your writing skills.

 

 

We all go to college to get a higher paying career, period.

Speak for yourself. Many people go to college because they are interested in acquiring knowledge in general or a particular subject.

 

 

A bachelors degree alone should be sufficient to get a gaduate a decent job in the market than can start a professional career. How can you argue that a BA/BS in outdoor recreation, sports studies, creative writing, art history and eventually history, pyschology, and even english can lead to a sustainable, professional career for a college grad.

I can argue that because there are many thousands of people with these degrees who have rewarding and often lucrative careers.

 

College is a vehicle to make yourself more marketable.

Based on how you have come across in this thread, it hasn't worked for you.

[CharonY]

As others have noted, OP has the (unfortunately) common misconception that college is a type of vocational training. To be fair, Uni administrations like to push this line of thinking as tuition is important and for many it is an important fiscal decision.

The overarching goal of unis, however, is to provide a space for individual development, exploring ones interest (whatever they are) and broaden ones horizon. Even in highly technical fields, degrees (especially at the Bachelor level) are nowhere close to a full technical training. The little bit of stuff you learn is just the basis that helps in understanding the complex bits later on. Rather, it is expected that students gather a selection of intellectual tools that will help them in their life, including (but not exclusive) to their jobs. This includes things like disassembling complex issues and questions, communication skills and a host of other skills.

 

In addition to what others have said I will also emphasize that the environment outside of curricula is really important for individual development, especially in unis with a large amount of foreign students.

For many this is the first time to actually get into contact (real contact, not second-hand anecdotal ones) with people from a large variety of backgrounds that actually share similar interests. Learning to communicate with people outside your own bubble (and thereby learning to see that people from other background are every bit as complex as you are) is incredibly important in the modern worlds in many areas.

 

Edit: to answer OP's question: abso-friggin-lutely not.

Edited November 12, 2015 by CharonY

[Strange]

"What did you study at university?"

[swansont]

. We all go to college to get a higher paying career, period.

 

~ee

Your friend apparently did not. If his/her degree had led to a nice job, you wouldn't be complaining. Congratulation, you've debunked your own argument

[Arete]

The confusing thing about the OP is I would generally think of a BA in outdoor recreation as a pretty (very) vocational degree with rather obvious and direct industry outcomes i.e. http://www.academicinvest.com/arts-careers/outdoor-recreation-careers

 

Simply to add to the chorus of already extensive and good posts outlining the value of a liberal education, one of the most important things I try to teach students in my courses is how to think. Critical thinking is a skill that can be developed on and applied to a vast array of subjects. It doesn't matter if one learns critical evaluation and communication skills whilst studying microbiology, industrial design, Renaissance art, or the hokey pokey. The skills acquired, if taught well are applicable to virtually any field. I see many jobs requiring a college degree with no specification as to what major is needed as a result.

[Elite Engineer]

I can understand if college were cheap or free,or if i were a trust-fund baby... then why not better yourself, right?. However, times are changing. Students attend college these days because they're told that college is the only way to a good paying career. This is relayed to them by their teachers, parents, the media and even politicians..including the president. STEM is the most emphasized. In high school, everyone was telling me if I want a good life, I have to be either an engineer, or a doctor.

 

Now, these kids go to college with one thing in mind, money. They immediately start predicting their future salary and the new car they'll have..cause they're going to be an ENGINEER or a DOCTOR. They dont think about "oh, my I'm really bettering myself intellectually". Of course, not everyone is meant for the college life, and once these kids get into the STEM programs, they realize they've bitten off more than they can chew. Now that have to make a decision: Change your major (and hey, the media and my teachers say college = a good career), get a vocational job (well that's below me). Naturally, the kids pick the former and usually pick an easy major...resulting in massive attendance in BA (LIBERAL ARTS ) majors like history, sociology, psychology etc. Then they push through 4 years of college, and accumulate...$40k-70k of debt, with a useless, over-inflated BA that 70% of their graduating class has. I forgot to mention, my friend wanted a career in the STEM field. After his first chemistry class, he immediately changed to an easier degree..OR.Of course in his mind, and many other students..as long as they GET A DEGREE...they'll get a job.

 

So, let's be realistic here.This isn't Athens. People aren't going to college because of some sudden renaissance in seeking a well-rounded mind. It's money, period. Colleges have detailed statistics of who their students are, and why they are there.

 

Of course, I forget that some of members here are PhD's with university teaching positions. Gotta increase that 6-figure salary..better keep the flow of ill-informed, naive kids going.

Charles Murray explains it here: "Who needs college anyway"

 

[overtone]

The founder of PayPal got his BA in philosophy.

 

For a while the undergraduate degree at Georgetown with the highest average starting salary upon graduation was a BA in Political Science. (Ok, that's a ringer - take a bow for walking the line and graduating, Patrick Ewing).

 

If you want bang for your buck get a two year degree from a good school in CNC Machining, and study hard for good references and comparatively impressive mental skills (not difficult, your competition has trouble adding fractions - get the stats down cold) - if you borrow the whole thing and pick up part time on the way you'll graduate about 15k in debt and walk into 50k @yr, plus broad choice of location.

 

If you want to have a life instead of a job, you can listen to various old guys - they mostly say the same thing: more poetry, less vocational training, pick your lovers carefully and don't worry too much about the damn job. College is a better place to find lovers than the local bar - and doesn't cost all that much more, if you add it up.

 

One of my grandfathers was a very successful dairy farmer, with a BA in something he never specified - he said the most valuable subject he ever took a class in all his schooling, the education that helped him the most in his very prosperous farming career, was Latin.

[fiveworlds]

If the college cannot honestly do that with these courses, shouldn't they discontinue these degrees?

[\Quote]

 

Of course they should. What job would I get out of studying harry potter?? Sure a harry potter fan might enjoy the course but people usually go to college to get a good job. What about the kids who don't realize when they have to pick a course that what they are picking is completely useless.

[CharonY]

 

Of course, I forget that some of members here are PhD's with university teaching positions. Gotta increase that 6-figure salary..better keep the flow of ill-informed, naive kids going.

And of course you will notice that a) all PhD with teaching positions are in STEM (so rendering your argument pretty invalid) and b) unless there is a senior full prf here, they won't get 6-figure salaries. Maybe we got an issue of perspective here (as the ones who have been around longer actually went through job searches...?).

 

I do think that the high cost of education is the problem not the fact that education is broad. I would deplore a situation where people do not even have the chance to follow their passion, however slim their chances may be (hey just look at how many people try to get jobs as scientists).

Also note that in a number of countries, secondary degrees are more heavily subsidized so that you actually do not have to pay tuition, which in my mind makes much more sense.

 

Again, if you want a specialized training, a vocational degree and training on site is the way to go. Also if you think that if you get a STEM degree you automatically have a defined career stream, you are woefully wrong. It is true that STEM generally offers better job chances, but many degree holders end up in a non-STEM area (according the US Census Bureau the number was around 70% IIRC). So in that regard, your friend is right, some employers just want a college graduate.

 

 

With a bachelor in biology or engineering you won't be able to stroll in a company and immediately be useful to them. You still have to have significant training in whatever you are supposed to do. As such, the precise degree often does not matter much, as long as you have got the right tools to apply yourself. Of course, if the job is in production a science degree will help. But if your track more about in marketing or management, it won't matter that much.

 

Even looking at unemployment rates the situation is complex. Looking at 2013 numbers from a study published by the Georgetown University the unemployment for experienced college graduates in engineering is 4.4%. In social sciences it s 4.6 and recreation 4.5. Barely a difference. In fact life and physical sciences is at 4.8%!

 

And yes, the disciplines matter. Electrical engineering is at 5.7%, chemistry at 5.6% and geology at 5.8. To reiterate, recreation (which is a single discipline) has 4.5. So it seems your friend actually made a fiscally sound decision.

 

Finally, I do not understand the general line of argument here. Even if the job chances are lower, what is the reasoning not to offer the degree? You are not interested in it, so no one else should learn something that interests them? I think what college students need to realize is that once out of college, it is not going to be like elective coursework. With degree X you won't be in line for career X. Rather you have to take what you learned and market yourself, and as mentioned, most likely outside of your field.

Edited November 13, 2015 by CharonY

[Elite Engineer]

Finally, I do not understand the general line of argument here. Even if the job chances are lower, what is the reasoning not to offer the degree? You are not interested in it, so no one else should learn something that interests them? I think what college students need to realize is that once out of college, it is not going to be like elective coursework. With degree X you won't be in line for career X. Rather you have to take what you learned and market yourself, and as mentioned, most likely outside of your field.

I'm thinking the title of my post was not very accurate. I'll explain 3 summaries that will explain it in clearer detail:

 

1.) Students are told to go to college, especially for STEM. The ones that can't handle STEM go into an overstaurated BA.

 

2.) Some students intend to go to college for an oversaturated BA.

 

3.) These colleges are more than happy to thrust both these groups into massive debt, and give them fluffed satistics on how they'll get a job right out of college. Yes there are STEM graduates who have trouble finding a job, but in general they have a much lower level fo unemployment.

 

What I'm asking is colleges resolve these issues:

 

1.) Colleges know students are disillusioned, and brainwashed and see schooling as a fast track for a financial career, not better their minds.They need to be honest with them, tell them that getting an oversaturated degree may not be the best track to a good life, especially if they're taking out massive loans to pay for it. Tell them which degree's are most likley to land them a job.

 

2.)Tell students college isn't the only way to have a career.

 

If school were cheaper, I'd have no problem with people going to college and getting a piece of paper that doesn't do anything...no real big consequence. The line has to be drawn when people go to school for a useless piece of paper and leave with crippling debt...the system has to be changed.

 

 

Even looking at unemployment rates the situation is complex. Looking at 2013 numbers from a study published by the Georgetown University the unemployment for experienced college graduates in engineering is 4.4%. In social sciences it s 4.6 and recreation 4.5. Barely a difference. In fact life and physical sciences is at 4.8%!

Were these statistics based on Georgetown University grads, or nationwide college graduates? Georgetown Uni. is a pretty presitigous college, so I'd expect BA's from there have a better employment status, just like how BA's from Harvard are going to have a very different employment rate than BA's from a smaller local college no one has heard of.

 

Again, if you want a specialized training, a vocational degree and training on site is the way to go. Also if you think that if you get a STEM degree you automatically have a defined career stream, you are woefully wrong. It is true that STEM generally offers better job chances, but many degree holders end up in a non-STEM area (according the US Census Bureau the number was around 70% IIRC). So in that regard, your friend is right, some employers just want a college graduate.

 

 

Yes, however a STEM graduate is far more attractive than a BA graduate. STEM requires hard critical thinking, problem solving, creative thinking. A BA requires you know when Rome fell. A BA just shows you can commit to something, STEM shows you can problem solve. In fact you're right that many STEM don't end up in their field, because they get a wider range of job offers. My brother's friend got a BS in electrical engineering from Syracuse U and now he's a data analyst for a mutual fund.

 

Also note that in a number of countries, secondary degrees are more heavily subsidized so that you actually do not have to pay tuition, which in my mind makes much more sense.

 

If this were the case, this conversation would have never happened.

Edited November 13, 2015 by Elite Engineer

[CharonY]

 

Were these statistics based on Georgetown University grads, or nationwide college graduates? Georgetown Uni. is a pretty presitigous college, so I'd expect BA's from there have a better employment status, just like how BA's from Harvard are going to have a very different employment rate than BA's from a smaller local college no one has heard of.

 

You could have looked it up, but I stated it was a study published by the University (or rather, the Center on Education and the Workforce) based on the American Community Survey. A study on a single cohort would not have made sense. Did you actually look at unemployment numbers (you know, critical thinking and all?).

 

Based on that I challenge the 3 points that you made in the post. First, what is an over saturated BA? Looking at various data it appears that everyone should just go and get a business or nursing major. Also note that if everyone takes STEM, by definition STEM would be over saturated. The 3rd point has limited veracity as uni administration likes to sell the career aspect. You will note that most (especially younger) professors are unlikely to sell you that line. And, as others have noted, I reject the idea that colleges should exclusively cater to career advancement vs personal growth especially on the bachelor level. Rather acquisition of personal and transferable skills are the key issue.

 

And, as I mentioned, within STEM unemployment varies a lot with a number of non-STEMs being close or better than some STEM disciplines.

 

 

A BA requires you know when Rome fell. A BA just shows you can commit to something,

 

If you really think that, I think you should broaden up your education. A degree in history teaches you to contextualize events and evaluate sources for example. That is high-level critical thinking for extremely complex issues.

 

As further evidence that STEM are not the only degrees providing transferable skills:

 

Fresh college graduates unemployment rate/experienced college graduate (i.e. 30 y and older):

Life/Physical science: 7.3/4.8

Engineering: 7.4/4.4

Humanities liberal arts: 9.0/6.3

So even using employment as criterion you are arguing massive changes based on a 2% average difference (with large differences in disciplines). To me that looks like a very narrow-minded view with comparatively little data to back arguments up.

 

And again your initial example for comparison:

Recreation: 5.2/4.5

Edited November 13, 2015 by CharonY

[Arete]

I can understand if college were cheap or free,or if i were a trust-fund baby...

 

This post shows a very high level of naïveté about the outcomes and purpose of college degrees.

 

Students attend college these days because they're told that college is the only way to a good paying career.

 

Or they are interested in a specific career which requires specific tertiary training. Believe it or not, there are many people out there whose career aspirations are motivated by something other than monetary greed. Try your friend doing outdoor education. As I demonstrated previously, this degree has very straightforward and obvious applied career outcomes. If you had of asked your friend "What do you want to do after college?" my guess is you would have got a very specific answer - he/she may have a much better of why they are at university than you do.

 

This is relayed to them by their teachers, parents, the media and even politicians..including the president. STEM is the most emphasized. In high school, everyone was telling me if I want a good life, I have to be either an engineer, or a doctor.

 

Sorry to hear that you got given such terrible career advice, and took it to heart. 1) It may come as a surprise, but there are many jobs other than engineer or doctor, and some of these are highly lucrative. 2) There has been a push for more STEM graduates over the last ~15 years, with little forethought as to what industries they will be employed by after they graduate. This has led to an oversupply of job seekers in a number of STEM industries - for e.g. biotech and pharma. 3) If monetary gain is your primary motivator to go to university, an MD is a TERRIBLE idea. By the time you're done with residency, you'll have been a full time college student for around a decade, accruing an average of $170,000 in debt, adding up to half a million dollars behind your average college graduate in realized and potential financial loss. On the other hand, it usually tops the list in terms of prestige and public respect.

 

Now, these kids go to college with one thing in mind, money.

 

This is not my experience of college students at all. The decision to attend college is generally far more nuanced than simple greed. The decision to go to university is usually professional, but you'll find students want a more fulfilling, impactful and, yes, generally better paying job at the end. They also want to learn about things that interest them, expand their social and intellectual circles and broaden their experiences. It might be all about the $$$ for you, but you'd be in the minority.

 

Of course, I forget that some of members here are PhD's with university teaching positions. Gotta increase that 6-figure salary..better keep the flow of ill-informed, naive kids going.

 

This is factually incorrect and logically fallacious.

A) Salaries for professors are not 6 figures. Average salary for a faculty professor in the US is $73,207. For adjunct faculty it's $31,316. Safe to say most professors aren't really in it for the money.

B) Your statement is begging the question regarding the motivations for correcting your really bad advice on college degrees.

 

Ultimately, the idea that people ONLY go to college to become an engineer or an MD specifically because they will earn more money is ludicrously myopic. A college education can train a person for a variety of careers - many people find fulfilling and lucrative careers with their English Lit majors.

[Ophiolite]

Of course, I forget that some of members here are PhD's with university teaching positions. Gotta increase that 6-figure salary..better keep the flow of ill-informed, naive kids going.

I don't have a PhD and I am not in academia. I am however going bald. This is a consequence of tearing my hair out when dealing with young graduates with engineering degrees who have apparently acquired them with the intent of getting a well paying job and not because they loved the subject, or because they wanted to improve their minds.

 

How does that express itself? One is faced with a set of people who seem unable to think for themselves, unable to apply lessons learned in one area to another area, unable to employ lateral thinking, unable to employ critical thinking, unable - by and large - to think. And the error they made - in my opinion - was setting out to get a degree for the sake of getting a degree.

 

The good news is that after challenging their intellects and demanding performance several of them make it. But in the mean time I lose more hair.

[CharonY]

Well, if it any consolation, it is no different already in academia. It used to be that the pre-meds were the worst offenders but I feel it getting more prevalent (or I am just getting older....).

 

The good news is that after challenging their intellects and demanding performance several of them make it. But in the mean time I lose more hair.

 

Pretty much sounds like PhD programs. Including the hair bit.

One thing that is often overlooked is motivation. If people are not interested in a given topic they may get passing or even good grades, but they will never excel in what they do. People switching degrees are not solely doing it because it is hard. It is mostly because they are not interested enough to actually make a serious effort.

Edited November 13, 2015 by CharonY

[Elite Engineer]

 

 

This post shows a very high level of naïveté about the outcomes and purpose of college degrees.

 

 

Or they are interested in a specific career which requires specific tertiary training. Believe it or not, there are many people out there whose career aspirations are motivated by something other than monetary greed. Try your friend doing outdoor education. As I demonstrated previously, this degree has very straightforward and obvious applied career outcomes. If you had of asked your friend "What do you want to do after college?" my guess is you would have got a very specific answer - he/she may have a much better of why they are at university than you do.

 

This is not my experience of college students at all. The decision to attend college is generally far more nuanced than simple greed. The decision to go to university is usually professional, but you'll find students want a more fulfilling, impactful and, yes, generally better paying job at the end. They also want to learn about things that interest them, expand their social and intellectual circles and broaden their experiences. It might be all about the $$$ for you, but you'd be in the minority.

 

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/college-inc/2010/04/survey_college_applicants_want.html

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/30/college-is-not-for-learni_n_558200.html

 

 

 

Both links cover surveys college students took explaining why they're going to college..$

 

 

Ultimately, the idea that people ONLY go to college to become an engineer or an MD specifically because they will earn more money is ludicrously myopic. A college education can train a person for a variety of careers - many people find fulfilling and lucrative careers with their English Lit majors.

An engineer, doctor, lab tech, architect, pharmacist, etc all have a clear connection to applicablity in the real world. Aside from "critical thinking", what applicable skills does a history major have in the real world? An engineer can design an engine or build a bridge. Yes, there are history majors who find jobs, maybe at banks or as managers. But as a whole, BA's dont have much applicable power, especially since more college grads are getting BA's.