YoungStrife Posted April 30, 2003 Posted April 30, 2003 Is it possible to efficiantly produce energy from the acceleration and heat produced by fast moving atoms/atom particles? How could we capture any energy produced by the plasma?
Radical Edward Posted April 30, 2003 Posted April 30, 2003 It would be a completely useless and efficient way to do it too, akin to driving a windmill by blowing it with an electric fan.
fafalone Posted April 30, 2003 Posted April 30, 2003 Useless....... unless of course you reach the critical temperature in hydrogen gas where fusion becomes self-sustaining. This is how fusion power plants will work in a few decades.
JaKiri Posted April 30, 2003 Posted April 30, 2003 And here was me thinking they were going to use methods like 'increasing the pressume' or Muon catalysis to help with the fusion. No, they're just going to get it REALLY HOT.
fafalone Posted April 30, 2003 Posted April 30, 2003 and here was me thinking "plasmas" implied those things
JaKiri Posted April 30, 2003 Posted April 30, 2003 Originally posted by fafalone and here was me thinking "plasmas" implied those things Well, for a start, plasmas don't have to be hot, afaik.
JaKiri Posted May 1, 2003 Posted May 1, 2003 Originally posted by fafalone Well when you achieve cold fusion, let me know You said that fusion had to be hot because it was a plasma. Plasma != Hot
fafalone Posted May 1, 2003 Posted May 1, 2003 Current research into fusion involves superheated plasma.
superchump Posted May 1, 2003 Posted May 1, 2003 Yeah...that's FUSION research. There are such things are cold plasmas. Supercold ionized gas is an example.
fafalone Posted May 1, 2003 Posted May 1, 2003 There's also such a thing as black holes. That's not what I was talking about. This conversation was about fusion.
YoungStrife Posted May 1, 2003 Author Posted May 1, 2003 ok ok ok! So in the future, self sustaining fusion...now how do nuclear powerplants wor again?
fafalone Posted May 1, 2003 Posted May 1, 2003 Fission, heavy elements like uranium are split into lighter elements, releasing energy.
YoungStrife Posted May 2, 2003 Author Posted May 2, 2003 Oh, fusion would in theory then, be 100 times as efficiant. Is it possible to disconnect water particles into its components of H and O, and simply use that as a fuel to power a bigass turbine??
Radical Edward Posted May 2, 2003 Posted May 2, 2003 I don't know about "efficient" but the fuel would be more readily available, and not nearly as dangerous, same for the byproducts. the radioactive waste from a fusion plant would only be low level. as for splitting water.... essentially this is how hydrogen powered cars work, although again it would be impractical as a power station because you would have to expend more energy splitting the water than you got from burning it again, so it would be pointless. Some people think that sonoluminesence may be the key, as that creates little bubbles with sound. I doubt it personally though.
YoungStrife Posted May 2, 2003 Author Posted May 2, 2003 I remember seeing a show on Discovery chaqnnel about how they can make rocket fuel from the hydrogen of the disconnected water particles and the oxygen working as, well...an oxident. Just like saltpeter in gunpowder. I wonder though, if the butning hydrogen would be efficient enough to propel a turbine, or power an engine. This is because hydrogen is naturally a gas, and I have doubts that it would expand enough, when it explodes to do such things. I'm noty talking about splitting water, that only creates an electrical charge. I'm talking about burning the split water.
Radical Edward Posted May 2, 2003 Posted May 2, 2003 oh it would make excellent turbine fuel, though as I said, it would end up being inefficient, as you would have to get hold of hydrogen in the first place, and the only way to do that is through electrolysis of water. Hydrogen powered cars will work on exactly this principle.
beammeupscot Posted May 3, 2003 Posted May 3, 2003 Press Release 04/21/03 Genesis World Energy Introduces Revolutionary Automotive Hydrogen Fuel Generation Device Genesis HICEF™ Technology leapfrogs current fuel cell-based transportation development by enabling the use of hydrogen in internal combustion engines Boise, ID - April 21, 2003 - Genesis World Energy, the company behind a revolutionary energy generation technology introduced in December 2002, has announced an automotive and transportation application that creates an on-demand source of hydrogen fuel for internal combustion engines. The Genesis HICEF (Hydrogen Internal Combustion Engine Fuel) Technology represents a stunning breakthrough in hydrogen-based automotive power systems through its on-board, on-demand generation of hydrogen gas derived from water — circumventing the need for either externally supplied sources of hydrogen or hydrogen generation based on chemicals or fossil fuel derivatives. The Genesis HICEF Technology represents a dramatic departure from current hydrogen-based fuel cell research, which has focused primarily on the generation of power for electric vehicles. Rather than abandoning the internal combustion engine and the decades of progress made in its improvement, the Genesis technology will enable automobile makers to design power systems that run off hydrogen gas rather than fossil fuels - thus eliminating a major source of pollution. For a 60-day period effective May 1- June 30, 2003, World Energy Management, the licensing arm of Genesis World Energy, will make its HICEF Technology available to companies who are interested in applying it to automobile, trucking, mass transit, aircraft, locomotive and marine engines. The HICEF device can be easily incorporated into existing internal combustion engines with relatively few modifications made to the vehicle, and is similar in approach to today's conversion of vehicles from gasoline to natural gas or propane — without the need for high-pressure storage of flammable gases. On Demand Hydrogen Fuel Although manufacturers have demonstrated both internal combustion engine and fuel cell-powered automobiles using hydrogen, the technologies upon which they have been based have not been commercially viable. The Genesis HICEF Technology overcomes a critical barrier that has inhibited the use of hydrogen as an internal combustion engine fuel source: the cost-effective creation and delivery of hydrogen gas. Relying on nothing more than a source of purified water, the Genesis HICEF Technology makes it possible to design internal combustion-powered vehicles that burn hydrogen gas produced on board the vehicle, freeing it from the need for externally generated sources of hydrogen fuel. The Genesis gCell Technology The Genesis HICEF is based on a revolutionary technology recently introduced by the Genesis Project in the form of the Edison Device - a residential and commercial energy generation unit that creates gas and electrical power through the separation of hydrogen and oxygen molecules contained in any source of water. At the core of this technology are the Genesis gCells, which break water down into its basic molecular structure through a series of electro-chemical processes, yielding ultra-pure hydrogen and oxygen gases. The reactant chemistry in the Genesis HICEF Technology is different from that of the Edison Device in that the gCells do not require many of the support processes needed in the Edison technology. The water supplying the gCells can be stored in special tanks that replace the ones currently used for gasoline in conventional fossil-fuel vehicles. Economic and Environmental Impact Since the water used by the gCells must be purified, consumers will have the choice of obtaining purified water from conventional fueling stations for an estimated $.20 to $.30 per gallon, or relying on filters in the Genesis HICEF unit that purify the water from sources such as a garden hose. Obtaining already purified water from fueling stations will extend the life of the filters in the HICEF unit, as well as provide a more profitable income source to gas station owners. Converting diesel engines will require a more involved process than gasoline engines; however the cost will be relatively the same as the conversion to natural gas. The trucking industry and mass transit will benefit greatly from the reduction in fuel costs. Of even greater significance are the potential benefits to our environment: the Genesis HICEF Technology represents the cleanest possible alternative fuel source, producing essentially zero tailpipe emissions. Readily Available Technology Manufacturers and aftermarket companies who are interested in the conversion of conventional internal combustion vehicles from fossil fuels or natural gas energy sources may express their interest in utilizing the Genesis HICEF Technology through a form available on the World Energy Management website. This form will be available through June 30, 2003 at http://www.worldenergymanagement.com. For further information regarding the Genesis Project, the Edison Device, and World Energy Management, please visit http://www.genesisworldenergy.org. Scott
JaKiri Posted May 3, 2003 Posted May 3, 2003 Well, I've never heard of it, and it sounds from that like a perpetual motion device. It should be illegal to break the second law of thermodynamics, then we wouldn't have this problem.
JaKiri Posted May 3, 2003 Posted May 3, 2003 Originally posted by fafalone That's not what I was talking about. This conversation was about fusion. And you justified that fusion was hot because it was a plasma. And then you justified that the plasma was hot because it was used in fusion. Nice cyclic operator you've got there, I've got to get me some of that!
Sayonara Posted May 3, 2003 Posted May 3, 2003 Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri Well, I've never heard of it, and it sounds from that like a perpetual motion device. It should be illegal to break the second law of thermodynamics, then we wouldn't have this problem.
Erador Posted August 24, 2003 Posted August 24, 2003 couldnt u, theoretically, use heat to create more heat without spending more energy?
Sayonara Posted August 24, 2003 Posted August 24, 2003 No. That would be like scraping butter off a piece of toast and spreading it on another piece. You get more toast out of it, but each piece has less butter than the original. We can't operate outside the laws of thermodynamics (or butter dynamics if you don't wish to mix metaphors).
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