making copper sulfate

[YT2095]

ok, better late than never, I`ve filtered it (it`s still going).

at 1`st glance the liquid is clear (I`ll check it for acididity later) the stuff left in the paper is most certainly copped hydroxide however

I`ll wash it out and heat a sample, it should then become copper 2 oxide (great stuff for later plating experiments). as for that magnesium hydroxide, my esstimate is that it will be in with the copper hydroxide also and partly unaffected in ther clear liquid.

overall, I`de say that it`s probably a good medium for an electrolyte to produce copper hydroxide.

I`ll wait until test data and analysis is done before I confirm or deny this however

either way, i`ts LOADS MORE FUN that just looking it up on the net

[DeoxyriboNucleicAcid]

Ok, well i did not quite filter it perfectly yet. BUT i do have some interesting results. My friend an I were playing around withsome household items, and we tried to use some of the solutions I made for electroplating. We first made a pathetic acid solution just to wash the coin we were plating. In the first case, we tried plating a penny with zinc, our acid solution was made of orange juice, vinegar and lime juice concentrate. Yes, i kinda did the reverse of what was said, but just for fun. Now this removed much dirt, apparently from the penny. It was bright and new. I also did electrolysis of 2 sanded down pennies into vinegar , so, the zinc was deposited in the soluion. Then I attached a normal penny to the negative terminal, and waited a good 2 minuts. It was beutifully plated with zinc in a perfect shiny coat! Then i tried electrolysis of 2 copper pipes, i let them also sit in my low power acid solution for a little while, and they were cleaned. I then sent power to them, in vinegar (lol) and it turned blue. I think this was copper acetate (correct me if im wrong and the other was zinc acetate, right?) So i plated replaced the negative end of copper with a quarter, and did some more electroplating. I let this sit alittle too long, cause i got destracted, but it had a pretty nice solid plate of copper (a little much though . I think thats about all i did today, please comment, i appreciate suggestions, and how come the vinegar is working so well??? (I know there was much in this post, it may seem overwhelming)

[YT2095]

naaah man , yer cool, I`ll just pick out the good bits anyway

 

you may well have made copper or zinc Citrate! and maybe some ascorbate salts too

those are the 2 main acid componants in lemon in lime juices, be very carefull though as either of these will be easily digested too, so I hope you don`t bite your nails after messing before you wash them!

 

as for the MgSO4.7H2O in water soln with copper electrode experiment. it would seem it`s a great way to destroy copper metal and make it into a hydroxide (I`ve got a a fiter paper full of the stuff now

I`ll roast that and make copper 2 oxide though, so it wont be wasted, I suggest you do same then wash is and store it for later experiments, it`ll be quite usefull later, trust me

but back to the thread, we want copper sulphate still, yes /no?

[DeoxyriboNucleicAcid]

Umm, well yes we do definately want the copper sulphate, and perhapse a zinc electrolyte solution too? Oh, and benedicts solution may also be good to make too. :-D

[YT2095]

we still need to get you some sulphuric acid somehow?

car batteries are the best way, aren`t there any junk yards or tips around where you live, maybe you could get one from there for nothing. once you have your copper sulphate, the zinc wont be a problem.

you`ll not be able to do much with epsom salts though

[DeoxyriboNucleicAcid]

Is there no other way to make Copper sulphate without a car battery

[YT2095]

other than buying it, or having another metal sulphate that copper will displace, no, you really need some sulphuric acid.

it`s the sulphate ion that your after that will freely disasociate.

I know of no other way off the top of my head that you could do it.

there`s a very long winded method, and hardly worth mentioning. if you can get some ammonium nitrate and electrolyse that with copper electrodes, ammonia gas will be given off, leaving copper nitrate, that could then be mixed with sodium sulphate making copper sulphate and sodium nitrate.

hardly worth it

[DeoxyriboNucleicAcid]

hmm, so we allready tried to displace MgSO4 with copper, but that didnt work wuite well did it?

[YT2095]

nope sorry, but that`s just the laws of chem

[DeoxyriboNucleicAcid]

Oh, and by the way, do you know of any good chemistry recources, like an on-line textbook perhaps?

[YT2095]

for you, yes, this is the sort of thing you will enjoy/need

 

http://hpd.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/household/list?tbl=TblChemicalsα=A

 

pick the letter that the chem you want starts with, then click on that chem, it will then tell you what household products use it and what percentage it contains.

please be carefull though!

[DeoxyriboNucleicAcid]

hmmm, well, i know its a little late, but thanks for the info, A FEW more questions.

 

-What compound do you think i was making when i disolved zinc into vinegar (try your best, i know there are many impurities and i used electrolysis to start it up)?

 

-And what is your best guess on the compound or chemical made when i did electrolysis of copper into a solution of vinegar, and mgso4???

 

Yes yes yes, I know that i shouldnt be using vinegar and stuff, but just out of curiosity, please tell me

[agaubr]

My guess is yes the blue is CuSO4, but the white milky tacky material is Mg(OH)2 which insoluable in the water. The reaction is an electrolysis whereby the Cu is oxideized to Cu2+ and the water is converted to H2(g) and OH-. Te ydroxide ion concentratio increase until overwhels the vinegar and then reacts with Mg2+ t form the Mg(OH)2. You try o filter the solution but my guess is it will be very slow and clog the filter. But with patience and lng noug wit and water washing the CuSO4 will be isolated.

[agaubr]

The issue is Cu solid due the nature of the activity series only slats of silver, mercury, platiumum or gold would interact with the copper to casue the copper to form Cu2+ and free other metal. the sulphates of most of these metals is insoluable in water and so will take a while for reaction to occur. But you the sulphate salt ofthe other metals.

[YT2095]

both Zinc and copper acetates (best guess)

[DeoxyriboNucleicAcid]

Thaks YT, would you have any clue if they (the acetates) were C2H3O2 or CH3COO acetates??

[YT2095]

I would say the copper version would be: Cu(H3C-COO)2

and the same for Zinc (just swap the metal ion over).

 

 

agaubr: magnesium hydroxide in copper sulphate soln would react. displacing the copper and making magnesiun sulphate

[DeoxyriboNucleicAcid]

Ooh, thanks YT for all of your time and help

[agaubr]

Yes this reaction would occur, forgot about insoluability of the copper hydroxide being much greater than magnesium hydroxide.

[YT2095]

DeoxyriboNucleicAcid: no problem, it`s as much fun for me too

[Guest lawton20]

I know this thread is old, but i also am interested in making some copper sulfate for some experiments. Could someone please tell me how well YT2095's recipie works, because i'd like as pure source as possible.

 

i have access to car batteries, but they're old. So do i need to charge them as well as possible before opening them because the SO4- comes as PbSO4 solid when discharged, and would hence be filtered out.

 

also, once CuSO4 crystals are formed, does one just have to pick them out by hand and put them in a solution for purification, or should it already be pure enough?

 

Thanks

[YT2095]

let the crystals grow as large as possible, and physicaly wash them by hand in very cold water, and then let them dry on a sheet of glass or plastic at room temp. that`s how I do mine, and don`t worry, in cold water, you`ll not loose too much crystal at all

[Guest lawton20]

Thanks for that, but about the other question, will an old battery be useful enough, as they often are considered old when the PbSO4 detaches from the plates in the battery, reducing the sulfate content.

[YT2095]

this is true, and you wont get as much as you would from a new batt, however, a good half a pound of crystals from an old batt should be enough for most home use to experiment with

[YT2095]

here`s another method update.

 

as you`ve probably seen stated a few times, Copper metal in Sulphuric acid won`t make copper sulphate, it either needs to have a current passed through it or use copper oxide instead.

 

I seem to have found a method (by accident) whereby copper metal and sulphuric acid CAN make copper sulphate, you need to add a little Hydrogen Peroxide to the Sulphuric acid First, and Then add the copper metal.

 

as near as I can tell it`ll make a very weak soln of Caros acid (peroxymonosulphuric acid) only a few percent but that will be enough to trigger the reaction as a catalyst.

it`s still only slow, but when compared to a control sample (that still hasn`t reacted at all) 2 days later I now have 3 grams of copper totaly dissolved! and perfect little Copper Sulphate crystals

 

if anyone else would like to try this as verification, I`de apreciate it and will put down the full method in more detail if you need it (it`s not much more than I`ve already stated).

 

it looks a promising 3`rd method though