Dark energy vs Black holes

[DevilSolution]

2 simple questions really,

 

1) Shouldn't black holes essentially counter balance dark energy? Given the huge amount of gravity they have.

 

2) Could the streams of energy that are emitted from black holes be dark energy? From my basic understanding black holes release jets of energy almost at the speed of light, this would seem to act as a propelling agent other against other galaxies or forces.

(from what i hear the dark energy started to make a major impact after 7 billion years, this could be the amount of time needed for there to be enough supernova's and hence galaxies with sizeable black holes)

 

 

(i know these 2 idea's are contradictory, im just a little confused)

 

Regards.

Edited December 13, 2015 by DevilSolution

[Janus]

2 simple questions really,

 

Firstly shouldn't black holes essentially counter balance dark energy? Given the huge amount of gravity they have.

Black holes have no more gravity than the mass that formed them. The SMBH at the center of our galaxy has a mass of 4e6 solar masses compared to the 5.8e 11 solar masses for the Galaxy as a whole, this means it only represents 0.0008% of the galaxies mass. What makes Black holes unusual is not their mass, but the fact that the mass is concentrated in such a small volume.

Secondly could the streams of energy that are emitted from black holes be dark energy? From my basic understanding black holes release jets of energy almost at the speed of light, this would seem to act as a propelling agent other against other galaxies or forces.

Those jets are not from the BH itself but are formed from matter falling in towards the black hole. Basically the rotation of the black hole generates a magnetic field that deflects some of the matter falling in and accelerates it into high speed jets at the poles. The energy for this comes from the BH's own rotation, and the black hole slows its rotation as it gives up this energy. No energy is created, just transferred.

(from what i hear the dark energy started to make a major impact after 7 billion years, this could be the amount of time needed for there to be enough supernova's and hence galaxies with sizeable black holes)

[DevilSolution]

Black holes have no more gravity than the mass that formed them. The SMBH at the center of our galaxy has a mass of 4e6 solar masses compared to the 5.8e 11 solar masses for the Galaxy as a whole, this means it only represents 0.0008% of the galaxies mass. What makes Black holes unusual is not their mass, but the fact that the mass is concentrated in such a small volume.Those jets are not from the BH itself but are formed from matter falling in towards the black hole. Basically the rotation of the black hole generates a magnetic field that deflects some of the matter falling in and accelerates it into high speed jets at the poles. The energy for this comes from the BH's own rotation, and the black hole slows its rotation as it gives up this energy. No energy is created, just transferred.

 

Yes im aware the energy is transferred, essentially taking matter and stripping it apart, as long as matter is going in and massive rotational energy is created as a force of gravity, Q1 should be correct? Black holes only expand aswell which over time accumulate to larger gravity pits and its gravity is still huge, if there's one at the centre of every galaxy and thats what the galaxy rotates towards it must be pretty heavy. To my knowledge they dont run out of rotational energy because they are constantly being fed matter and space which then propels it even more, making it larger. From what i was told, the universe will end when the last black hole has transferred the last bit of matter into energy.

 

Little side note, any clues as to where or what the energy of the matter is turned into? I think i've seen one hypothesis that says it spills out as EMR or basic sub atomic particles no longer connected and another that says it gets passed into either 1) a warp hole bending space on itself and spilling out half the universe away or 2) a parallel universe of a non-de-script nature.

[MigL]

THAT is what you got from Janus' post ?

 

Better re-read it.

[DevilSolution]

THAT is what you got from Janus' post ?

 

Better re-read it.

 

I'm not sure what i got, the streams are inputs into the black hole which has "said" rotational value, and they dont have loads of mass its just concentrated, which to my thinking doesnt explain why the whole galaxy rotates around it, if it doesnt have the biggest gravitational pull within the galaxy?

 

Inform me if im wrong but do black holes ever run out of energy? From what i know its like a vortex where space propels the system much the same way a planet is catapulted around an elliptic orbit. Space itself can be pulled in and out because it has no property. They only get bigger. Never smaller. And as i put in my OP wouldnt this be counter active to dark energy??

[Janus]

I'm not sure what i got, the streams are inputs into the black hole which has "said" rotational value, and they dont have loads of mass its just concentrated, which to my thinking doesnt explain why the whole galaxy rotates around it, if it doesnt have the biggest gravitational pull within the galaxy?

The SMBH is at the center of the galaxy, but it is in that sense alone that the rest of the galaxy rotates around it. However, that does not mean that the BH or the its gravity is the reason for the galaxies rotation. For instance, the orbit of the Sun around the galaxy indicates that the mass it orbits is ~100 billion times that of the Sun. The vast majority of that mass is made up of the stars, and dark matter closer to the center than the Sun is and only a small part is due to the SMBH at the center( about 1/25000th). You are assigning way too much importance to the SMBH than it actually has regarding the dynamics of the galaxy's rotation.

Inform me if im wrong but do black holes ever run out of energy? From what i know its like a vortex where space propels the system much the same way a planet is catapulted around an elliptic orbit. Space itself can be pulled in and out because it has no property. They only get bigger. Never smaller. And as i put in my OP wouldnt this be counter active to dark energy??

What you know is wrong. Again the gravity pull of a BH is no more than that of the mass that falls into it, and any rotational energy it has came from that material( and if that material falling in has an angular momentum counter to that of the BH, that can lessen the rotation of the BH. It is not like a vortex. Basically, you have some developed some bad misconceptions about black holes. They are not some endless source of energy. Edited December 13, 2015 by Janus

[DevilSolution]

The SMBH is at the center of the galaxy, but it is in that sense alone that the rest of the galaxy rotates around it. However, that does not mean that the BH or the its gravity is the reason for the galaxies rotation. For instance, the orbit of the Sun around the galaxy indicates that the mass it orbits is ~100 billion times that of the Sun. The vast majority of that mass is made up of the stars, and dark matter closer to the center than the Sun is and only a small part is due to the SMBH at the center( about 1/25000th). You are assigning way too much importance to the SMBH than it actually has regarding the dynamics of the galaxy's rotation.

What you know is wrong. Again the gravity pull of a BH is no more than that of the mass that falls into it, and any rotational energy it has came from that material( and if that material falling in has an angular momentum counter to that of the BH, that can lessen the rotation of the BH. It is not like a vortex. Basically, you have some developed some bad misconceptions about black holes. They are not some endless source of energy.

 

No i dont claim they are, i simply mean by sucking in other solar systems, suns etc they keep getting energy.

 

Or is it the case they eventually stop sucking things in and just exist as dents in spacetime?

[MigL]

BHs don't 'suck'.

They have the same gravitational properties as an object of equivalent mass.

A 10 solar mass BH will have things in orbit around it just as a 10 solar mass star would.

[TheGeckomancer]

The popular theory is that blackholes bleed off their mass in the form of hawking radiation until they eventually evaporate.

[Strange]

The popular theory is that blackholes bleed off their mass in the form of hawking radiation until they eventually evaporate.

 

The effective temperature (and therefore rate of energy loss) of Hawking radiation is inversely proportional to mass. So even a small black hole with the mass of the sun would not have lost a significant amount of mass over the lifetime of the universe. And would have gained mass from other sources.

 

In fact, to have lose mass a black hole must have a temperature greater than the CMB, which means a mass less than that of the moon.