Native civilization on Titan?

[Moontanman]

Let's do a mind experiment, if life exists on Titan, and some people think there is some indication it might, it's unlikely to be anything more than microbes...

 

BUT!

 

What if complex life evolved there and an intelligence arose, how advanced is it likely they could become?

 

I'll start by pointing out that metals we are familiar with would be unlikely to exist on Titan, no copper, no gold, no silver, no iron and no uranium!

 

Would the lack of metals as we know them prohibit or at least limit a high tech civilization on Titan or are there ways around this?

 

Some metals at least that cannot be useful in their elemental form on Earth would probably be impurities in the ice surface where frozen water rakes the place of silicates. Can we speculate with at least some confidence on technology under the conditions on Titan?

[TheGeckomancer]

The problem is that Titan would be an industrial DREAM. Oceans of liquid methane for example. We would see crazy amounts of waste heat coming from Titan, that's for sure. And life so far hasn't developed narrowly but deeply. It goes broad, and then specializes. We would see life ALL over titan to give rise to intelligent life, plant life etc.

[Moontanman]

The problem is that Titan would be an industrial DREAM. Oceans of liquid methane for example. We would see crazy amounts of waste heat coming from Titan, that's for sure. And life so far hasn't developed narrowly but deeply. It goes broad, and then specializes. We would see life ALL over titan to give rise to intelligent life, plant life etc.

 

 

I understand there is no reason to think there is complex life on Titan but what I am getting at is the challenges of developing technology on Titan, a really big problem would be no fire..

[pavelcherepan]

 

 

I understand there is no reason to think there is complex life on Titan but what I am getting at is the challenges of developing technology on Titan, a really big problem would be no fire..

 

If some life did develop there and if its a complex life then it's probably reasonable to say that it will be much better adapted to the conditions and as such they probably won't need as much heating or fire as we'd have to use. I'd say a technological civilization on Titan will be eating chemically processed hydrocarbons and building structures out of ice and plastics. If they do develop technologies for electricity fire shouldn't be a problem - there's frozen water everywhere and if you melt it you can run electrolysis and get as much oxygen as you want and fuel is abundant too (and also the hydrogen we've just produced), but obviously the civilization would have to develop a few perquisite technologies to get fire going.

[Moontanman]

 

but obviously the civilization would have to develop a few perquisite technologies to get fire going.

 

 

That would be what I am getting at, how or what would those technologies be?

[pavelcherepan]

 

 

That would be what I am getting at, how or what would those technologies be?

 

Just like I said before - probably electricity and some means of melting ice.

[Moontanman]

 

Just like I said before - probably electricity and some means of melting ice.

 

 

How would you generate electricity and ice at those temps is hard as granite and water is lava so how would you melt ice?

I am not sure what you mean by this:

 

I'd say a technological civilization on Titan will be eating chemically processed hydrocarbons

 

[Endy0816]

Probably something involving geothermal vents.

 

It is possible to obtain metal via bacteria concentrating it. Maybe a more advanced form could work.

Edited December 26, 2015 by Endy0816

[Moontanman]

Probably something involving geothermal vents.

 

It is possible to obtain metal via bacteria concentrating it. Maybe a more advanced form could work.

 

 

Geothermal vents would be liquid methane boiling on water lava but I guess that energy could be obtained that way but the metals problem is still iffy, since all or virtually all heavy metals would have sunk to the bottom when Titan was a ball of water before the ice crust formed metal salts such as calcium and potassium and sodium would be present but not as native metals..

[pavelcherepan]

Geothermal vents would be liquid methane boiling on water lava but I guess that energy could be obtained that way but the metals problem is still iffy, since all or virtually all heavy metals would have sunk to the bottom when Titan was a ball of water before the ice crust formed metal salts such as calcium and potassium and sodium would be present but not as native metals..

 

Also Titan is supposed to have a liquid water ocean under the crust, so potentially (depending on the thickness of the crust) you could get geothermal energy from drilling down through the crust. Although, I'm not exactly sure if that's going to work, because water is very likely to freeze before it reaches to top of the bore hole, but still potentially could be done especially in regions with lower thickness of the ice.

[Moontanman]

 

Also Titan is supposed to have a liquid water ocean under the crust, so potentially (depending on the thickness of the crust) you could get geothermal energy from drilling down through the crust. Although, I'm not exactly sure if that's going to work, because water is very likely to freeze before it reaches to top of the bore hole, but still potentially could be done especially in regions with lower thickness of the ice.

 

 

The crust is estimated to be 62 miles thick over a thick salty ocean of ammonia and water. From our stand point it would be like drilling down to lava although I understand that some areas like Iceland they do that...

[pavelcherepan]

 

 

The crust is estimated to be 62 miles thick over a thick salty ocean of ammonia and water. From our stand point it would be like drilling down to lava although I understand that some areas like Iceland they do that...

 

That's correct, but Titan may have cryovolcanism similar to what is being investigated at Enceladus. In these areas the crust would be thinner and could potentially be used for energy generation.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titan_(moon)#Cryovolcanism_and_mountains

[Moontanman]

 

That's correct, but Titan may have cryovolcanism similar to what is being investigated at Enceladus. In these areas the crust would be thinner and could potentially be used for energy generation.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titan_(moon)#Cryovolcanism_and_mountains

 

 

Taking advantage of that heat would require metal, catch 22?

[pavelcherepan]

If you want to convert it to electricity you'd definitely need metal for the generator. I believe it might be possible to use plastics for blades and some other parts of steam turbine. On the other hand, if there's really no metal to be had, it should be still possible to make use of mechanical energy in some ways.

 

For example, one could use rotation of the turbine to generate heat through friction and use that energy to melt ice and heat water and pump it around to heat "dwellings" and "factories". Or some other weird things can be done.

 

EDIT: Come to think about it and I believe some metal should still remain dissolved in water and not drift down to the core, because what would make, for example, iron ions completely precipitate from water in absence of oxygen or other oxidizers? If there's still some metal dissolved in water it would be a huge undertaking but should still be possible to extract some via chemical means.

Edited December 26, 2015 by pavelcherepan