White Male mortality in the U.S.

[Ten oz]

I am curious what you (fellow forum members) speculate may be the reason(s) for the below outlined trend?

 

 

"Death rates for white Americans ages 45 to 54 climbed half a percent each year between 1999 and 2013, researchers at Princeton University found using mortality data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. In the previous two decades, the death rate for this group had dropped by 2% each year. Middle-aged blacks and Hispanics continued to see a 2% annual decline between 1999 and 2013".

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/03/health/death-rate-middle-age-white-americans/

 

Also from the same article:

"This study also raises questions about why black and Hispanics did not see an increase in deaths over this period when they were hit with even more economic challenges than whites, said Ellen Meara, associate professor of healthy policy and clinical practice at the Dartmouth Institute. Meara, who wrote an editorial about the article for the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, called the effect on death rate among middle-aged white Americans "stunning."

"It is almost like there is this epidemic of hopelessness that needs to be understood," and it seems to affect whites more than blacks and Hispanics, Meara said.

Another "puzzle" of this study, Meara said, is why the rise in death rate was not seen in other rich countries.

Mortality among the middle-aged population plummeted in the six other countries that the researchers examined: Australia, Canada, France, Germany, the United Kingdom and Sweden. Although these countries also had economic problems in recent years, its residents might have been less affected because they have more social safety nets in terms of unemployment benefits and health care, Case said."

[iNow]

Suicide, both slow and quick, whether by bullet or by drug and by drink.

 

The author of the study last weekend on Fareed Zakaria GPS also tied it into why candidates such as Donald Trump may be so popular.

 

https://youtube.com/watch?v=9qvanzWGZrQ

[Ten oz]

@ iNow, I am aware of the theorized connection. Taking ones life goes so far against natural impulses I personally think there must be something much greater at play than any conscious feelings or beliefs. I also assume it is not linked to chemical exposure in our enviroment because it so clearly cuts across racial lines. Of course my assumptions and feelings are evidence of nothing.

Do you think that the concept of white privilege (or whatever you'd call the concept of an innate positional authority in society) is so deeply ingrained in our culture that experiencing the feeling that one has lost it would lead to suicide? That is a real question. I interested in your thoughts on the matter.

[iNow]

I do think the notion of lost privilege plays a role, but I'd wager that economic well being (or lack thereof) is the bigger driver. More hours, lower wages, constant work just to keep one's head above water, lost hope, consistent struggle, lack of access to healthcare and nutritious food, a sense that poverty is permanent and retirement unattainable. Those coupled with the changes in social dynamic (less time with family, fewer consistent dinner gatherings and holiday traditions, people being alone in separate rooms on their mobile devices instead of sitting together in one room around a fireplace or single screen, more divorce and increased loneliness) I believe disproportionately affect the population being discussed, and while I suspect a sense of lost privilege plays a role here, I'm hesitant to think its the main one.

Edited December 24, 2015 by iNow

[Ten oz]

@ iNow, why would you say it disproportionately effects white males? Statistically the opposite is true. Employment levels, education attainment, wages, homeownership, and etc are all better for white males than other groups. If poverty and not being able to spend time with ones family are the drivers of suicide stats would cut across economic lines rather than racial ones. It is also interesting to me that this is a problem unique to the United States. During the last economic collapse Europe was hit just as hard; some parts harder. Yet the mortality rate in England, Germany, France, and etc did not change.

[iNow]

I am not certain, but my immediate thought is that non-white cultures likely still have more of those social and family support mechanisms that increase lifespan and well-being in place than whites. Things like church, lower divorce rates, consistent family meals and weeken gatherings and celebratory events, etc. These things strike me as more embedded within non-white cultures than they seem to be within many of the white populations who seem to be dying younger. It's hard to say, and I stipulate that I'm speculating and generalizing in major ways. Probably some key inaccuracies in my thinking, but I've got a crappy internet connection and am working via mobile at the moment so will need to defer doing the research on drug usage, joblessness, poverty rates, educational attainment, and divorce rates by race to in/validate my thinking.

[Ten oz]

@ iNow:

 

- white males do not experience higher divorce rates that other groups. http://www.census.gov/prod/2011pubs/p70-125.pdf

 

- white males are not less religous than other groups. http://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/racial-and-ethnic-composition/

 

- hard to say how often families have dinner together but whites are more likely that Hispanics and blacks to live in a two parent household. https://www.census.gov/prod/2011pubs/p70-126.pdf

 

 

[iNow]

But how have those metrics been trending in the last ~10 years? Are rates for white males getting worse while rates for other groups getting better, even if the overall rate is lower/higher among groups at a given point in time?

[Ten oz]

But how have those metrics been trending in the last ~10 years? Are rates for white males getting worse while rates for other groups getting better, even if the overall rate is lower/higher among groups at a given point in time?

From what I read the rates are stable to improving overall for all groups to inculde white males. The Census links I provided cover several years worth of trends.

I think it is bizarre. A look at the Suicide rate by state show no obvious pattern either. For example some Bible belt states have high suicide rates while others have low suicide rates.

I hate to be partisan about everything but I can't help but to wonder if it isn't a byproduct of conservative media. FoxNews, Conservative talk radio, blogs, and etc are very doom and gloom. Could exsporuse to excessive amounts of that sort of negative rhetoric over time drive a person into a depression? Stats on that would be very difficult to find. Which makes it a rather large speculation on my part.

[iNow]

An interesting thought, and I tend to agree that it probably plays a role. The speculation is primarily in how important that role ultimately is in leading to the effect.

 

Anxiety rates among people who watch and listen to that type of programming as their primary tend to be higher. Even from the standpoint of neuroscience we see more right-wing conservative types being much more likely see things around them as potential threats, and it's not a huge leap to suggest that this type of anxiety easily leads to depression and even suicide.

 

After all, Fox News likes the tagline Fair and Balanced, but we all know it'd be more accurate to replace the word Fair with Fear given what they produce and put on air.

[MigL]

Immediately evident is an 'inverse' correlation with population density.

Maybe you guys would see it also if you didn't have an axe to grind with political ideologies.

But seriously, do you really think politics 'important' enough to warrant suicide ?

( also, please note I say correlation )

 

Loneliness, or feeling isolated, perhaps ?

Maybe we've become more of a social animal than we thought.

Or maybe its just the bad TV reception in remote areas.

Edited December 26, 2015 by MigL

[Ten oz]

Immediately evident is an 'inverse' correlation with population density.

Maybe you guys would see it also if you didn't have an axe to grind with political ideologies.

But seriously, do you really think politics 'important' enough to warrant suicide ?

( also, please note I say correlation )

 

Loneliness, or feeling isolated, perhaps ?

Maybe we've become more of a social animal than we thought.

Or maybe its just the bad TV reception in remote areas.

Axe to grind? I have called my own thoughts on the matter "large speculations" . I have not stated any as a matter of fact or being "immediately evident" as you did in your post while at the same time making accusations about the intentions or biases of others. I do not see a correlation between population density of the increase in the suicide rate. While Wyoming (state with the highest rate) may have low population density not every state above the national average does. Nor does it explain why the U.S. average is increasing compared to other countries and why it is happening to such a specific group.

[MigL]

Easy, Ten oz.

( I did say I wasn't serious )

 

But you'll notice the rate does start deviating from the norm, with the curves starting around Oregon/Oklahoma on the hi suicide/ lo pop. density end, and California/Connecticut on the low suicide/hi pop. density end.

And yes, that is the first thing that struck me about the chart.

( making it immediately evident )

[Ten oz]

@ MigL, population density does not explain why the numbers have been increasing for white males. It also ignores that we are specifically looking at white males. With white males making up 70% of suicides it makes sense that Washington DC would be ranked last because whites males are a minority in DC. More densly populated areas generally have more diversity.

 

Some key figures:

 

Evident means clearly understood and obvious which is not the same as saying you noticed something or what struck you. What you noticed/saw and what's evident are not equals. For the reasons I have stated I do not think population density is evident as a factor. Far too many other factors.

While Oregon may have low population density when total land mass is compared against total population 60% of Oregon's population lives in the Portland metropolitan area which has the 28th most dense population in the country with 4,375 people per sq/mile. So by your immediately evident theory Portland should have a lower than average suicide rate yet the opposite is true. Portland has a suicide rate of 17.1 which is more than 40% higher than the national average. Meanwhile the City with the highest suicide rate in the country is Las Vegas, NV. Another example of where the state has low density but where the majority of population actually lives in very dense. Las Vegas has a high population destiny of 4,222 people per sq/mi and a suicide rate of 34.

[iNow]

You may have already seen this, but I found this overview from the New Yorker well rounded and informative. A good brief read to grasp the nuance, and one relevant section quoted by me below:

 

http://www.newyorker.com/news/john-cassidy/why-is-the-death-rate-rising-among-middle-aged-white-americans

...the combination of an increasingly pessimistic worldview among white working-class Americans and the sudden availability of opioids had produced this kind of perfect storm of adverse outcomes.

 

That sounds plausible. To reach any definitive conclusions, however, it would be helpful to have more granular data. Case and Deaton report that between 1999 and 2013, death rates from poisonings and suicides rose in parallel across all four major regions of the country: the South, the West, the Midwest, and the Northeast. They dont break down the data any further.

 

It would be illuminating to know what was happening in individual towns and settlements. Is the rise in mortality among middle-aged whites a small-town phenomenon, or does it extend to big cities? Is there a correlation among job losses, drug use, and death rates? Skinner thinks that there might well be, particularly in towns that were dominated by a single employer. Ive gotten email from residents of small New England towns describing how, after the one factory employing local high school graduates shut down, heroin took over, he wrote to me.

.

Not all of the data are split by race, but this is a pretty wonderful set of studies in many of the underlying trends I just found: https://web.stanford.edu/group/scspi/sotu/SOTU_2014_CPI.pdf

[MigL]

Well Ten oz, you're the one who posted the chart.

For you to then argue that observations about 'your' chart are invalid because it presents state-wide statistics which are at odds with those state's city statistics, begs the question; What was the purpose of posting it in the first place ?

 

iNow's latest post attempts a more balanced/nuanced interpretation.

I don't have time to research it, but what about the age of suicides ?

Is it a predominantly 'young persons' affliction ?

It seems reflected in their music genre of choice; Since the middle 90s white American teenagers started listening to music full of 'teenage angst'. I don't really know why as teens and young adults have it better than they've ever had ( and have the lowest levels of political interest ).

If I have time I'll look for some age related stats this evening.

[Ten oz]

Well Ten oz, you're the one who posted the chart.

For you to then argue that observations about 'your' chart are invalid because it presents state-wide statistics which are at odds with those state's city statistics, begs the question; What was the purpose of posting it in the first place ?

 

iNow's latest post attempts a more balanced/nuanced interpretation.

I don't have time to research it, but what about the age of suicides ?

Is it a predominantly 'young persons' affliction ?

It seems reflected in their music genre of choice; Since the middle 90s white American teenagers started listening to music full of 'teenage angst'. I don't really know why as teens and young adults have it better than they've ever had ( and have the lowest levels of political interest ).

If I have time I'll look for some age related stats this evening.

The point of the chart was to show that high rates span the whole country and are not higher in specific regions.

 

You are asking a lot of question for someone who doesn't have time to research any information.

You may have already seen this, but I found this overview from the New Yorker well rounded and informative. A good brief read to grasp the nuance, and one relevant section quoted by me below:

 

http://www.newyorker.com/news/john-cassidy/why-is-the-death-rate-rising-among-middle-aged-white-americans

 

.

Not all of the data are split by race, but this is a pretty wonderful set of studies in many of the underlying trends I just found: https://web.stanford.edu/group/scspi/sotu/SOTU_2014_CPI.pdf

The Stanford center on poverty & inequity has a lot of good information. I am just have trouble matching it to the increase in white male suicide or why why the male suicide rate is so much greater than other groups here in the U.S.; they were not impacted by the most recent economic crisis hard than other groups. That is what I am struggling to understand. Why are the suicide trends so racial specific and unique to the Unite States?

 

 

 

 

I don't know if we have enough data to know what role if any a pessimistic view toward the world plays. People in the United States actually have a more positive view on our current economy than Europeans and are more hopeful about the future accord to a recent Pew Research report. Yet the suicide rate in the United States is still higher. *the Pew data isn't broken down by race however so its relevance is unclear

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/07/23/around-the-world-dissatisfaction-with-economy-and-concern-for-its-future/

 

 

Another factor we have not yet discussed is guns. Most suicides are committed with fiearms and white are twice as likely to own firearms than Blacks & Hispanics and Republican twice as likely as Democrats. Firearms could explain why the trend is different in the United States.

Stats on gun ownership from Pew Research - http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/07/15/the-demographics-and-politics-of-gun-owning-households/

 

[MigL]

My mistake Ten oz, apparently age has very little correlation to suicide rates.

I had always assumed that it was younger people who commit suicide.

 

There does seem to be a wide disparity between genders in the suicide rate though ( according to the CDC ), and although females think about suicide more often, males actually carry through at 4 times the rate.

[Ten oz]

My mistake Ten oz, apparently age has very little correlation to suicide rates.

I had always assumed that it was younger people who commit suicide.

 

There does seem to be a wide disparity between genders in the suicide rate though ( according to the CDC ), and although females think about suicide more often, males actually carry through at 4 times the rate.

Do you consider suicide a violent act or aggressive act? Testosterone might explain the gender gap. Most everyone who survive a suicide attempt says they immediately regretted their actions. That at least would imply it is impulsive? A relationship to aggression can be seen in murder suicides like where a person kills other prior to killing themselves.

It is all so speculative though; obviously mental health plays a role too. I honest have no good theories (ones worth debating) for why white males specifically are such a higher rate.

[iNow]

I see it more likelynthatbthe gender difference is because men tend more often to "go it alone" like lone wolves wherein women tend more often to have strong social connections vast and deep. Men have friends, but tend to have fewer in whom they confide or who'd drive them to go get cancer treatments, etc.

[MigL]

I would agree, mental health issues are most likely a large contributor.

 

Here we are, a few (supposedly ) sane people, trying to understand why a person who has a ( temporary ? ) bout of insanity, does what he does.

[Ten oz]

I would agree, mental health issues are most likely a large contributor.

 

Here we are, a few (supposedly ) sane people, trying to understand why a person who has a ( temporary ? ) bout of insanity, does what he does.

 

I am not trying to understand why people commit suicide. I am curious specifically about the raise in the suicide rate here in the United States amongst white males. What would be the different factors impacting them?

 

statistically significant differences I have found so far between white males and other groups are in gun owner ship and mental health. White males are twice as likely as other male groups to own a gun and we know guns are the primary method for suicide. So perhaps there is a convience factor there which makes the impulsive decission more easily accomplished. And then for mental health I found:

 

"The adults most likely to use mental health services in the past year (17.1%) were in the group reporting two or more races. This group was followed by white adults (16.6%), American Indian or Alaska Native adults (15.6%), followed by black (8.6), Hispanic (7.3) and Asian (4.9%) adults.

 

The racial/ethnic groups most likely to use a prescription for psychiatric medication were white adults (14.4%), adults reporting two or more races (14.1%), and American Indian or Alaska Native adults (13.6%), followed by black (6.5%), Hispanic (5.7%), and Asian (3.1%) adults."

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/news/science-news/2015/a-new-look-at-racial-ethnic-differences-in-mental-health-service-use-among-adults.shtml

 

Those numbers lead me to wonder whether white males legitimately have higher rates of mental health issues are if because they are more likely to have insurance they are also more likely to have access to medical care and in turn more likely to be diagnosed?

[iNow]

A good article this week from Fareed Zakaria following up on this topic.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/americas-self-destructive-whites/2015/12/31/5017f958-afdc-11e5-9ab0-884d1cc4b33e_story.html

But why don’t we see the trend among other American ethnic groups? While mortality rates for middle-age whites have stayed flat or risen, the rates for Hispanics and blacks have continued to decline significantly. These groups live in the same country and face greater economic pressures than whites. Why are they not in similar despair?

 

The answer might lie in expectations. Princeton anthropologist Carolyn Rouse suggested, in an email exchange, that other groups might not expect that their income, standard of living and social status are destined to steadily improve. They don’t have the same confidence that if they work hard, they will surely get ahead. In fact, Rouse said that after hundreds of years of slavery, segregation and racism, blacks have developed ways to cope with disappointment and the unfairness of life: through family, art, protest speech and, above all, religion.

(snip)

The United States is going through a great power shift. Working-class whites don’t think of themselves as an elite group. But, in a sense, they have been, certainly compared with blacks, Hispanics, Native Americans and most immigrants. They were central to America’s economy, its society, indeed its very identity. They are not anymore.

[Ten oz]

A good article this week from Fareed Zakaria following up on this topic.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/americas-self-destructive-whites/2015/12/31/5017f958-afdc-11e5-9ab0-884d1cc4b33e_story.html

Thank you for that article.

That is what I was alluding to in Post #3

 

Do you think that the concept of white privilege (or whatever you'd call the concept of an innate positional authority in society) is so deeply ingrained in our culture that experiencing the feeling that one has lost it would lead to suicide?

I think aware of it or not we all have a sense positional entitlement to us. Every possible group we can divide our selfs into: tall, short, skinny, fat, ugly, handsome, smart, stupid, etc, etc, etc have various expectations deep in theirpsychology. Various studies shown that treatment of people based on race, beauty, height,income,etc is a very real thing. So perhaps White Males do simple have greater expectations which in term causes them to be more often let down or makes their expectations harder to achieve.

 

Here is one major people with that theory however; surely the average expectations of minorities groups has gone up? It may now match that of white males but surely must be imporved considering minority groups have seen improvements in health, income, education, infant mortality, and etc. So assuming it has improved and assuming the suicide rate for any given population is related to expectations should we seen some increase in the suicide rate for minorities?

[iNow]

Not sure I follow. Why would you expect suicide rates for minorities to rise if they're seeing improvements in all of those various measures?