curiousone Posted January 23, 2016 Posted January 23, 2016 Is our mind inside or outside of our brain? Our mind is spiritual where our brain is biological. Which part the mind or the brain holds our emotions? I'm for our mind. It' said our emotions are in our brain? It is also said that our thoughts are in our mind and not our brain. What say you? Mind one
Phi for All Posted January 23, 2016 Posted January 23, 2016 ! Moderator Note Moved from Science News (which is for... well, Science News) to General Philosophy. Please don't open any more speculative threads in mainstream sections. Thank you.
cladking Posted January 23, 2016 Posted January 23, 2016 Is our mind inside or outside of our brain? Our mind is spiritual where our brain is biological. Which part the mind or the brain holds our emotions? I'm for our mind. It' said our emotions are in our brain? It is also said that our thoughts are in our mind and not our brain. What say you? Mind one It's actually fairly simple; Brain + Language = Mind. We all experience the mind but neither "brain" nor "language" is what we think it is. The brain, for instance, is the entire nervous system plus the entire biological organism as it existed at birth. Some of the organism is nearly incidental to "mind" because they do not directly affect it. Ironically much of the structure (nervous) not directly affecting the mind is actually in the brain. Language is simply a shared belief system. -4
DrmDoc Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 (edited) Is our mind inside or outside of our brain? Our mind is spiritual where our brain is biological. Which part the mind or the brain holds our emotions? I'm for our mind. It' said our emotions are in our brain? It is also said that our thoughts are in our mind and not our brain. What say you? Mind one Mind, in my opinion, is the environment of cognitive activity within the brain that arises from brain function. In the brain, a mind is quantified by a functional capacity to integrate diverse sensory input (visual, tactile, auditory, etc.) through a process that produces behaviors independent of instinct. Essentially, a mind enables and evinced by proactive rather than reactive behaviors. I arrived at this perspective through the research I did several years ago for a book about the dreaming brain. In my opinion, a mind cannot exist without a neurological network (or equivalent) as its progenitor. I welcome your thoughts. Edited January 24, 2016 by DrmDoc
Ten oz Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 Is light inside or outside of a candle? Light travels and can fill a space where a candle is inanimate and stationary. Which part of a candle holds heat? I'm for light. It' said light is in a candle? It is also said that reflections of light are of light and not in a candle. What say you? 1
Confusi Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 looking for the mind in the brain is like looking into your television for the actors 1
Strange Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 looking for the mind in the brain is like looking into your television for the actors That is one of those clever-sounding but shallow arguments that don't really work. If by "television" you mean the entire television industry: studios, broadcasting equipment, manufacturers, supporting services ... oh, and the TV set then looking for the actors in "television makes perfect sense. Your analogy is like: trying to understand sight by just looking at the lens of the eye. (Because nearly all of the sense of sight is handled by the brain.) 1
Eise Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 Is our mind inside or outside of our brain? Our mind is spiritual where our brain is biological. Which part the mind or the brain holds our emotions? I'm for our mind. It' said our emotions are in our brain? It is also said that our thoughts are in our mind and not our brain. What say you? Mind one I Think this is a good place to start: http://www.informationphilosopher.com/problems/mind_body/
DrmDoc Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 looking for the mind in the brain is like looking into your television for the actors If you are serious, you're suggesting that the brain is merely a prism and the mind a projection from some outer-body location. If true, can you prove it? Can you prove, beyond belief or faith alone, that mind is a product of something other than brain function?
Phi for All Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 That is one of those clever-sounding but shallow arguments that don't really work. Sweet bait that attracts the fish who didn't study in school, on small hooks so they're very palatable.
Confusi Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 (edited) Professor Lipton, Heartmath institue, "the stomach sends more signals to the brain than the brain sends to the stomach" "The stomach lining is made from the same material as the brain" Consiousness is infinite, unfettered and unaffected by space and time as these are PRODUCTS OF THE MIND! If true, can you prove it? Can you prove, beyond belief or faith alone, that mind is a product of something other than brain function? No, can you? You are missing the point, the mind is not part of the body, the body is a hologram created by the mind! "it is your mind that creates this world" Buddah Edited January 25, 2016 by Confusi -2
Phi for All Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 You are missing the point, the mind is not part of the body, the body is a hologram created by the mind! And this explanation helps us how? Is this a case where nothing really changes for us, but you get to believe your unsupported fantasies? It sounds like your belief doesn't impact me in any way, so go for it, if that's what you choose.
Confusi Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 Phy, you must see that you have no evidence for your "unsupported fantasies" either, why is your opinion more valid than mine.
DrmDoc Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 (edited) If true, can you prove it? Can you prove, beyond belief or faith alone, that mind is a product of something other than brain function? No, can you? You are missing the point, the mind is not part of the body, the body is a hologram created by the mind! "it is your mind that creates this world" No, I can't prove that the mind is a product of something other than brain function. However, I can prove--through an abundance of brain trauma studies--that a mind is not evident amid brain death, which is very convincing evidences of what produces the mind, in my opinion. Edited January 25, 2016 by DrmDoc
Phi for All Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 Phy, you must see that you have no evidence for your "unsupported fantasies" either, why is your opinion more valid than mine. Which unsupported fantasies of mine are you referring to? Or is this just lashing out irrationally?
Confusi Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 No, I can't prove that the mind is a product of something other than brain function. However, I can prove--through an abundance of brain trauma studies--that a mind is not evident amid brain death, which is very convincing evidences of what produces the mind, in my opinion. This only brings a "chicken and egg" scenario though! Permit me an analogy, The brain is the computer, controls the body. The mind is the internet, infinite information streaming into it. If the computer breaks down, no information. If it was a breakdown of just the sound and video cards that broke down, we may think that there is no information in the computer, but there would be, we are just unable to access it! Further to this, as the physicists know, matter is created by mostly empty space, it is in fact an illusion, created by the focus of mind. @Phi, I wasn't lashing out, I was just saying we both have as much proof as the other, it is, and can only ever be, a matter of opinion, my opinion is no more ridiculous than yours -1
Phi for All Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 @Phi, I wasn't lashing out, I was just saying we both have as much proof as the other, it is, and can only ever be, a matter of opinion, my opinion is no more ridiculous than yours Proof of what? What did I propose, as you have, that I have no supportive evidence for? Or are you saying that my questioning your argument is without support? Because there's plenty of evidence that what we call "the mind" is a function of the brain and its systems. We also have no reason to believe our bodies are holograms, especially when empirical evidence heavily suggests otherwise. So why would you think your opinion is not ridiculous compared to what we have evidence for? My argument doesn't rely on opinion, and maybe that's where we're getting our wires crossed.
Ten oz Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 This only brings a "chicken and egg" scenario though! Permit me an analogy, The brain is the computer, controls the body. The mind is the internet, infinite information streaming into it. If the computer breaks down, no information. If it was a breakdown of just the sound and video cards that broke down, we may think that there is no information in the computer, but there would be, we are just unable to access it! Further to this, as the physicists know, matter is created by mostly empty space, it is in fact an illusion, created by the focus of mind. I understand that it is just an analogy but, excuse me for saying so, it is a poor one. All the information on the Internet is generated by computers. The innformation you are referencing requires computers; no computers, no Internet. The Internet is multiple computers sharing information and not multiple computers tapping into the existence of information. When a single computer breaks the Internet is still there because other computers are still there. Break enough computers and bye bye Internet. Break any single computer (destory) and bye bye all unique informant that specific computer stored. Matter is energy and empt space is sort of a meaningless term. Perhap you meant vacuum; either way it doesn't related to the biology of the brain. 2
Strange Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 The mind is the internet, infinite information streaming into it. Do you have any evidence that the mind is like that? I don't get the impression that you, or anyone else, has infinite information flowing into their mind. I wasn't lashing out, I was just saying we both have as much proof as the other, it is, and can only ever be, a matter of opinion, my opinion is no more ridiculous than yours There is evidence that indicates the possibility/likelihood that the brain gives rise to the mind. There is zero evidence that the mind exists independently of the brain. So it is clear that only one of those choices is opinion.
Phi for All Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 I understand that it is just an analogy but, excuse me for saying so, it is a poor one. I've heard many experts say that this particular popsci analogy, brain = computer, is responsible for a great deal of misunderstanding. It's not just that it's wrong, it often leads people to make several misinformed leaps that are very difficult to recover from once taken. It's a gateway analogy that leads to crackpotism. 1
curiousone Posted January 26, 2016 Author Posted January 26, 2016 Excellent arguments all. What is matter made of, and come from? The statement mind over matter, can matter be spiritual? I hear my voice in my mind? All of this leads to spirit/soul. curiousone
Ten oz Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 I've heard many experts say that this particular popsci analogy, brain = computer, is responsible for a great deal of misunderstanding. It's not just that it's wrong, it often leads people to make several misinformed leaps that are very difficult to recover from once taken. It's a gateway analogy that leads to crackpotism. I agree completely. In my opinion analogies are great for describing interpersonal situations but are mostly just a lazy convinience when explaining functional processes. The better one understands the subject matter they are dicussing less they should need analogies unless that which they are seeking to explain is behavioral/emotional. In the case of an emotional subject an analogy may help trigger a similar state of feeling. A boxing analogy may be easy to create to lighten someone's spirits after they lose a job or spouse but an analogy explaining how the Earth rotates around the Sun is more tricky. Better to just explain some things in dry terms.
Phi for All Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 The better one understands the subject matter they are dicussing less they should need analogies unless that which they are seeking to explain is behavioral/emotional. I agree with the first part wholeheartedly. I tend not to trust that my audience will understand the mainstream explanation, and stray into ineffective analogy too often. Bad habit.
Robittybob1 Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 If you are serious, you're suggesting that the brain is merely a prism and the mind a projection from some outer-body location. If true, can you prove it? Can you prove, beyond belief or faith alone, that mind is a product of something other than brain function? I used to think this was the case due to certain experiences which for the life of me I could not imagine how they were in my own brain.
Ten oz Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 Excellent arguments all. What is matter made of, and come from? The statement mind over matter, can matter be spiritual? I hear my voice in my mind? All of this leads to spirit/soul. curiousone E=mc^2 is a version of Einstein's famous relativity equation. Specifically, it means that energy is equal to mass multiplied by the speed of light squared. While seemingly simple, this equation has many profound implications, chief among them being that matter and energy are actually the same stuff. Pure energy in the form of motion can be converted into matter, through the creation of a particle, which has mass. However, as the equation implies, it takes a huge amount of energy to create a tiny bit of mass.http://www.livescience.com/32363-what-does-emc2-mean-.html Hearing and thought are not one in the same. Deaf people can think despite not being about to hear. Can you better explain what you believe "I hear my own voice in my mind" means? I don't want to start walking down the road talking about electrical impulses and brain function if you are under the impression that there is sound vibrating in your head, coming from your soul, that you are hearing when you think.
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