Will Energy and Work equal to each other between two closed systems linked by one shareable object?

[ABV]

Two closed systems are linked to each other. Both use same object. In one of this closed systems was spent energy to change physical property of shareable object. After this object transformation, other closed system changes it's own equilibrium state. Will the work in changes between equilibrium states of one closed system equal to quantity of the spent energy in other closed system?

Details, how is this looks like. https://somephysicsideas.wordpress.com/2016/01/23/switch-theory/

 

 

[fiveworlds]

We know it doesn't due hysteresis loss etc.

[studiot]

 

Two closed systems are linked to each other. Both use same object. In one of this closed systems was spent energy to change physical property of shareable object. After this object transformation, other closed system changes it's own equilibrium state. Will the work in changes between equilibrium states of one closed system equal to quantity of the spent energy in other closed system?

Details, how is this looks like. https://somephysicsideas.wordpress.com/2016/01/23/switch-theory/

 

 

 

 

 

This question cannot be answered.

 

Each system is closed which is defined as meaning that mass may not enter or leave either system but energy may.

 

Since we are not told the complete energy balance for either system, the exchange energy between the two systems may or may not be the only energies exchanged between the two systems and the surroundings.

Edited January 26, 2016 by studiot

[fiveworlds]

Whether it leaves the system or not energy will be lost to the container enclosing the closed system through hysteresis loses.

[studiot]

Whether it leaves the system or not energy will be lost to the container enclosing the closed system through hysteresis loses.

 

Hysteresis only occurs in cyclic processes.

 

We are not told if the process concerned is cyclic.

[fiveworlds]

Hysteresis only occurs in cyclic processes.

 

We are not told if the process concerned is cyclic.

 

No it also occurs on the atomic scale in the interactions between individual atoms. It is also why it is impossible to make a perpetual motion machine you are always losing energy somewhere. Not that people haven't tried really hard to figure out how to change that.

[studiot]

Perhaps you have a different definition of hysteresis from mine?

 

Would you like to elaborate?

[swansont]

 

No it also occurs on the atomic scale in the interactions between individual atoms. It is also why it is impossible to make a perpetual motion machine you are always losing energy somewhere. Not that people haven't tried really hard to figure out how to change that.

 

A word you might want here is dissipation.

[ABV]

 

 

This question cannot be answered.

 

Each system is closed which is defined as meaning that mass may not enter or leave either system but energy may.

 

Since we are not told the complete energy balance for either system, the exchange energy between the two systems may or may not be the only energies exchanged between the two systems and the surroundings.

How change of physical property of object could initiate exchange of energy between closed systems?

Could please explain it?

[studiot]

That's how refrigerators work.

[ABV]

That's how refrigerators work.

Not sure if the refrigeration process could be used in this case. In refrigeration process pressure and temp have dependency to each other in equation, and energy has direct conversion in thermodynamic systems.

Here, one of the system is mechanic. The temperature as energy cannot be converted into work between equilibrium states in magnetic field. Same for example with balloon volume and work in gravity field.

 

 

I think, the better answer will be a solution for problem. The example about balloon with load would be simpler than ferromagnetic object into magnetic field

[studiot]

Not sure if the refrigeration process could be used in this case. In refrigeration process pressure and temp have dependency to each other in equation, and energy has direct conversion in thermodynamic systems.

Here, one of the system is mechanic. The temperature as energy cannot be converted into work between equilibrium states in magnetic field. Same for example with balloon volume and work in gravity field.

 

 

I think, the better answer will be a solution for problem. The example about balloon with load would be simpler than ferromagnetic object into magnetic field

 

 

I answered the question, as presented on this forum.

 

Having just read your blog I see we are at cross purposes so I suggest you prepare a version of your blog, condensed to about 25% in length and leading to a specific question and then post it here. I also suggest keeping the question to a single example.

 

If you wish to use the balloon as your example at a height of 32km there will have been significant expansion work either against the thinning atmosphere or against the much stiffer balloon skin. Accepting a constant atmospheric pressure and density for a height rise of 32 km is not realistic.

Edited January 27, 2016 by studiot

[ABV]

Having just read your blog I see we are at cross purposes so I suggest you prepare a version of your blog, condensed to about 25% in length and leading to a specific question and then post it here. I also suggest keeping the question to a single example.

 

If you wish to use the balloon as your example at a height of 32km there will have been significant expansion work either against the thinning atmosphere or against the much stiffer ballon skin. Accepting a constant atmospheric pressure and density for a height rise of 32 km is not realistic.

Thank you for reading a problem with balloon from my blog. As I said, this problem would be easy calculate rather than ferromagnetic material into magnetic field.

You're absolutely right. The calculation contains simplified conditions and these numbers are not realistic However, I would like calculate more realistic numbers for maximum height of the balloon and compare potential energy of load relative to earth and energy spent to compress the gas of balloon.

I would appreciate to everyone who would help with this calculation.

Edited January 27, 2016 by ABV