The disturbed world of online games

[Eldad Eshel]

I play this game called League of Legends (LoL in short), and wanted to share my experience of the human world going on there. It is a very popular web game with real life people playing along side and against you. First of all I will say that the level of human character there is simply shocking, I am honestly horrified by it. It is mainly kids, around the age of 14, but it is not just kids. They curse each other, yell at one another, at literally sub human level. I cannot come up with any comparison, I think it is a form of behavior simply uncomparable to anything. There is a feature where you can report other players, to the staff of the game. Basically anything "negative" they think you do they say they will report you. Is this not disturbing ? The younger generation of humanity are growing up to be a pack of snitches ? I think psychologically this subject is very interesting, as to how low can human behavior go ? These are seemingly the "normal" humans of this planet, probably most of them economically middle classed and higher. They sit behind their computer screens, behind the mask of the internet, and let go all restraints. Parents should be extra concerned, and I think should keep an eye of this kind of behavior, and even intervene. I think also the staff of the game and the staff of other game companies should take note of this and act accordingly to better the behavior of their users.

If this is the future generation of man kind honestly the future of man kind does not look good.

 

[swansont]

!

Moderator Note

What science do you wish to discuss here?

[Eldad Eshel]

!

Moderator Note

What science do you wish to discuss here?

Psychology

[swansont]

Psychology

 

!

Moderator Note

Then ask about psychology, and not for opinions about whether kids today are snitches, etc.

[Carbonerd]

Companies which make games do not care as long as they get money. Also, raging kids can be met only at low ranks (or mostly) which makes you want to climb in a ladder.

 

From psychological point of view, parents are the one to be blamed. They work all the time and do not pay attention to what kids do. Also, they are buying tons of new gadgets for no reason - everyone stands as potential addiction. Nowadays I see pople who are talking to each other and using phones at the same time. Like...what happend to society?

 

I remember in my childhood when we used to go and play outside. Now the only thing I see is kids playing games, kids talking about games, kids spending money on useless in-game things and so on.

[Prometheus]

I remember in my childhood when we used to go and play outside. Now the only thing I see is kids playing games, kids talking about games, kids spending money on useless in-game things and so on.

 

I remember spending a lot of my childhood playing games, talking about games and trying to get money to buys games. It was awesome.

[Eldad Eshel]

Companies which make games do not care as long as they get money. Also, raging kids can be met only at low ranks (or mostly) which makes you want to climb in a ladder.

 

From psychological point of view, parents are the one to be blamed. They work all the time and do not pay attention to what kids do. Also, they are buying tons of new gadgets for no reason - everyone stands as potential addiction. Nowadays I see pople who are talking to each other and using phones at the same time. Like...what happend to society?

 

I remember in my childhood when we used to go and play outside. Now the only thing I see is kids playing games, kids talking about games, kids spending money on useless in-game things and so on.

Some good points. Western parents, mainly western, really do spoil there kids alot. As if the child has more power than the parents and sort of controls them. I am not a parent, but I would hate myself if my kid grew up to be one of these shallow gamers. I would do everything for him/her to be respectable, stable and proficient. Modern parents seem to not care about the private life of their kid, as long as they get good grades and respectable jobs. They toss them out there to the cruel modern world, and the outcome is visible in these games, little struggling brats. Some are nicer than others, rare ones, and probably it is again because of more decent parents, that raised them up better, maybe more humanely, spending quality time with them, and getting them to be more "human".

 

The internet has taken over our world, and especially the young ones, mesmerized by it, and out of control. As much as the internet is a positive thing in some ways, it is also a very negative thing, with all that harmful content out there for free and easily accessed, even seemingly unharmful games. Where they are thrown out there like in an ancient arena brawl, struggling, hungry and ferocious vs their "peers", other young ones, in this competitive atmosphere. I think there should be actual laws against all this internet mess. Maybe even keeping kids away from the internet until older age.

 

I remember spending a lot of my childhood playing games, talking about games and trying to get money to buys games. It was awesome.

That is just sad my young friend.

Edited February 8, 2016 by Eldad Eshel

[DrP]

I used to play League of Legends. I loved it but it was too time consuming. I hear what you say about kids being nasty on there, but you can play different servers until you find one with a community you like and get along with. There are rude people wherever you go.

 

I do not agree with your synopsis about it being negative only. Whatever the hobby, whatever the sport or club or group of people you get idiots I am afraid... you have to get used to living your life in a way that does not let these asses affect you. I do not agree with your take on porn and masturbation either.... it sounds like you have these views maybe due to some sort of religious indoctrination or something... you have been told porn and masturbation is bad so you feel guilty about doing it... drop that and start enjoying life, it's foolish to live your life bound by the chains of fear of eternal punishment for doing natural and normal things. It is this that seems evil to me - leave people alone and let them do what they want to do and get off on doing with out harming others...

QUOTE:EE "this is just sad my young friend"

 

Personally I do not find it sad that the guy enjoys games... I find it normal. What I find sad is you, with your self confessed mental problems, crippling guilt and itchy head from masturbating, your need to chastise or criticise those that watch porn, your delusion that you can move things with your mind (whilst ignoring all the evidence that points to it being a well explained phenomenon).

 

Don't get me wrong, you seem like a nice guy and pretty interesting, but this criticising of what others enjoy (presumably due some religious indoctrination or brain washing) is sad.

[Prometheus]

Kids are nasty in real life. I broke an arm, nearly lost an eye, lodged a dart in my brothers foot sometime after ripping out two of his teeth. My mate had a branch lodged up his arse, causing problems decades later. Then there's all the name calling and mental nastiness i can't even begin to recount.

 

Is that any better or worse than your online experience?

 

At the moment we're just comparing anecdotes so we don't know. How about looking at the literature to see if your opinions have any foundation in reality? Otherwise this is just a 'back in my day things were better...' rant, the likes of which society has suffered at least since written records began.

 

P.S. Here's an interesting exposition on 'Good Old Days syndrome'.

Edited February 9, 2016 by Prometheus

[fiveworlds]

I play this game called League of Legends (LoL in short), and wanted to share my experience of the human world going on there. It is a very popular web game with real life people playing along side and against you. First of all I will say that the level of human character there is simply shocking, I am honestly horrified by it. It is mainly kids, around the age of 14, but it is not just kids. They curse each other, yell at one another, at literally sub human level. I cannot come up with any comparison, I think it is a form of behavior simply uncomparable to anything.

 

Yeah they abandon games you are playing and really mess up the entire game for everybody. Not all kids are like that though a lot of them are and it is funny you mention western kids because I have definitely seen kids from eastern nations giving out to each other too. Especially making curses in different languages on a different language server because they believe the majority won't know what they are saying.

[Fuzzwood]

You have assholes in every, and I mean EVERY, society.

[EdEarl]

The description of kids misbehaving in this online game reminds me of a book Lord of the Flies by William Golding (1954), also the movie West Side Story by Arthur Laurents (1960). Socrates said of children:

 

The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.

Yet, they grow up to be adults and carry on as always.

[Endy0816]

The whole glasses mistake ruined Lord of the Flies for me. :/

 

"We need your glasses for making fire."

Nearsighted: Piggy, "They can't make fire..."

Farsighted: Piggy, "No problem. I can see okay without them for awhile." Snaps glasses in two. "There, now each group can have half while we wait for rescue."

 

Whole source of conflict and symbolism gone.

 

 

Mainly depends on the average age of the players. You may still want to seek about for a mature group to play with though. Teams are probably where you need to look(if not another game altogether).

Edited February 9, 2016 by Endy0816

[Sirona]

It's not just that they're children, but they also have the power of anonymity which means there are rarely consequences for anti-social, malicious and apathetic behaviour. They've no real need to maintain a respectable level of behaviour (or so they think) because they know that they won't be personally accountable, nor is cooperation online as necessary as it is offline. There is a lot of bullying online and it's not just in a gaming context either.

[DrP]

Actually, the alliance I was a member of was a pretty good crowd. We used to have meetings via Skype (about 20 of us) to organise our attacks on other alliences (you can't do it in faction chat as there are too many spies from other alliences). We used to hate the spoilt little brats that spent too much money on the game who were obnoxious too. lol

[Sirona]

Actually, the alliance I was a member of was a pretty good crowd. We used to have meetings via Skype (about 20 of us) to organise our attacks on other alliences (you can't do it in faction chat as there are too many spies from other alliences). We used to hate the spoilt little brats that spent too much money on the game who were obnoxious too. lol

Good for you! However, whether this is representative of other websites which have chat features is not clear.

 

My point on behaviour on the internet was more generalised, however. For example, I've noticed on this forum that people to some degree make snide/ condescending comments and patronise others; I am not accusing you all of anything, I do it myself. My point is that when we have no personal connection to others, we have little reason to be cooperative or polite. For example, I'd happily point out inconsistencies or disagree with people online and be less inclined to be polite compare to offline because I know offending certain people slightly offline could have greater consequences and disadvantages. We self censor ourselves in front of our family, friends and colleagues, but most don't bother online.

 

However, there is a difference between not being particularly sensitive or polite to others online and bullying which is malicious and damaging, regardless of whether you have no connection to them or not.

[physica]

My point on behaviour on the internet was more generalised, however. For example, I've noticed on this forum that people to some degree make snide/ condescending comments and patronise others; I am not accusing you all of anything, I do it myself. My point is that when we have no personal connection to others, we have little reason to be cooperative or polite. For example, I'd happily point out inconsistencies or disagree with people online and be less inclined to be polite compare to offline because I know offending certain people slightly offline could have greater consequences and disadvantages. We self censor ourselves in front of our family, friends and colleagues, but most don't bother online.

 

However, there is a difference between not being particularly sensitive or polite to others online and bullying which is malicious and damaging, regardless of whether you have no connection to them or not.

Completely agree had to vote up. You have to think why people are playing games. Partly to pass time, simulate, because it's fun and because they get to simulate doing stuff they'd never do in real life. I play starcraft and order units to kill other units without even thinking twice...... In real life I definitely wouldn't facilitate killing. Same goes with the way I talk online. A conversation online generally has less impact because you don't know the person and they have no ties to your social circle. You can even mute them and considering the previous points you will forget about them very quickly. The problem is that people take themselves too seriously on the internet. Whilst I don't shout abuse at people I sometimes taunt people when playing online games and I've lost count of how many people have taunted me. The bottom line is that they don't know anything about you. What I think is more interesting is the people who take it to heart. There is an increasing number of people who really freak out when someone has a difference of opinion to them or says that their efforts are not amazing. Colleges are partly to blame allowing the creation of "safe spaces", making up a line of facts which are usually victim orientated and attacking and demonising anyone who questions those facts. I am one small person in a vast world. I am not connected to you in any way apart from this dialog. If you don't like what I'm saying don't worry it will not affect your life in any way unless you choose for it to. Where the double standards really come out is when lefties call politicians and speakers who aren't left every name under the sun but then try and silence them when they say something they don't agree with. Thankfully in gaming freedom of speech is still going strong. Whilst some activists have tried to imposed their double standards onto this industry the gaming industry thankfully has remained market orientated which maintains freedom of choice and freedom of speech. Instead of buckling to tyranny they let their customers decide. If you want to engage in this horseplay you can do that. If you don't no one is forcing you to play. If there is enough people who want a heavily policed gaming platform then there would be a market for it and money to be made. More heavier policing would cost more. If you'd like to pay more for that then it would be your choice to seek out such a service as long as I don't have to be forced to pay more people because someone else is too delicate.

 

 

The internet has taken over our world, and especially the young ones, mesmerized by it, and out of control. As much as the internet is a positive thing in some ways, it is also a very negative thing, with all that harmful content out there for free and easily accessed, even seemingly unharmful games. Where they are thrown out there like in an ancient arena brawl, struggling, hungry and ferocious vs their "peers", other young ones, in this competitive atmosphere. I think there should be actual laws against all this internet mess. Maybe even keeping kids away from the internet until older age.

It's up to the parents. Laws against the internet are hard to enforce and easily infringe on the freedom of speech. You seem to have an issue with western culture. That's up to you however, it's western culture that pushes forward human rights and democracy. Western culture has produced most of the modern innovations and leads the world in education and research. The poor in the west have much more freedom. Majority of art, literature and film comes out of the west. It's popular to hate the west like it's popular to hate the head boy a school. We can talk superficial statements till the cows come home but in reality the real deep-down reason is that they weren't picked to be head boy. In this day and age there isn't another culture that even comes close to rivaling western culture.

[Eldad Eshel]

It's up to the parents. Laws against the internet are hard to enforce and easily infringe on the freedom of speech. You seem to have an issue with western culture. That's up to you however, it's western culture that pushes forward human rights and democracy. Western culture has produced most of the modern innovations and leads the world in education and research. The poor in the west have much more freedom. Majority of art, literature and film comes out of the west. It's popular to hate the west like it's popular to hate the head boy a school. We can talk superficial statements till the cows come home but in reality the real deep-down reason is that they weren't picked to be head boy. In this day and age there isn't another culture that even comes close to rivaling western culture.

I mainly meant how in western culture the young ones have less restraints. They are basically free to do as they wish, and this usually takes a wrong turn, almost unregarded by the parents. I also think the modern world of the internet is degenerating the younger generations so much that the whole of humanity will suffer in the future. Instead of caring about science, music and art they will only care to get pc game items, or masturbate all day hooked on internet content.

[physica]

I mainly meant how in western culture the young ones have less restraints. They are basically free to do as they wish, and this usually takes a wrong turn, almost unregarded by the parents. I also think the modern world of the internet is degenerating the younger generations so much that the whole of humanity will suffer in the future. Instead of caring about science, music and art they will only care to get pc game items, or masturbate all day hooked on internet content.

I'm not really sure where you're coming from here. As long as these people are not hurting anyone they're allowed to do that. Assuming that their choice is wrong means you have to define a purpose to life. This is why religion has tyrannical episodes because it makes up a purpose to life. Everyone is free to define their own purpose in life. If you are concerned about the future of science then you can pursue science yourself. I like the idea of helping people, making a change and I like science which is why I'm pursuing postgrad in physics and engineering in medicine but I do not have the right to force others down my path.

 

You're also being a bit simplistic and one-dimensional. People can have freedom on the internet and still choose science. I know I do. People can also love playing games and do worthwhile things. You said that Prometheus's statement about him spending a lot of time playing games, talking about games and getting games was sad. I personally know Prometheus. I lived with the guy for a while. He values his secrecy so I won't disclose too much however, he has done multiple degrees, done three masters degrees has experienced a couple of world class universities that are in the top 10 in the world in math orientated subjects but has not chased a lucrative career, instead he is doing more science in the postgrad world. You may think my endorsement of this guy is a big laboured but I'm making a point that you're prejudging and simplifying things. If you stop judging people straight away you will see that society is not as bad or doomed as you think.

Edited February 15, 2016 by physica

[Eldad Eshel]

I'm not really sure where you're coming from here. As long as these people are not hurting anyone they're allowed to do that. Assuming that their choice is wrong means you have to define a purpose to life. This is why religion has tyrannical episodes because it makes up a purpose to life. Everyone is free to define their own purpose in life. If you are concerned about the future of science then you can pursue science youself. I like the idea of helping people, making a change and I like science which is why I'm pursuing postgrad in physics and engineering in medicine but I do not have the right to force others down my path.

First of all they are hurting others, on a daily bases in these games. The purpose of life I think is creation. If you look at this whole world we live in that seems to be the main general goal, of the universe and of life, which is in itself the major creation of the universe. The universe created us, we are kind of like it's masterpiece, it's prime art, and then we in turn are also asked to create, and humanity has overall created alot. Now if the topic is kids in pc games, then they are not creating or anything, and most of them do the opposite, which is degeneration of themselves and of others. Their whole childhood and teenage life is wasted on shallowness and pettiness. This isn't mainly against the games themselves but against the way they act in them. And this also goes to the majority of the internet. From what I see in a popular website like facebook for example, it is also mostly shallowness and pettiness, and here it is not just kids but all ages. Even senior folks making sly remarks about some photo some girl posted of herself. Sadly as much as the internet is useful and progressive it also acts as a medium for much stupidity and the degeneration of all mankind. Most people need to be led, as you have mentioned, in order to be creative and productive, and the internet is leading them nowhere.

Edited February 15, 2016 by Eldad Eshel

[physica]

The purpose of life I think is creation.

Says you but that's not everyone's' definition of purpose.

 

 

we in turn are also asked to create

by who? These are your personal opinions, other people can look at life in a different angle and find different meaning in life. As long as you're not directly hurting someone by your actions you can live life how you want.

 

 

And this also goes to the majority of the internet. From what I see in a popular website like facebook for example, it is also mostly shallowness and pettiness, and here it is not just kids but all ages. Even senior folks making sly remarks about some photo some girl posted of herself. Sadly as much as the internet is useful and progressive it also acts as a medium for much stupidity and the degeneration of all mankind. Most people need to be led, as you have mentioned, in order to be creative and productive, and the internet is leading them nowhere.

You seem to be missing what I've written about you judging people by a few shallow actions on the internet. Here is what I wrote about it.

 

 

You're also being a bit simplistic and one-dimensional. People can have freedom on the internet and still choose science. I know I do. People can also love playing games and do worthwhile things. You said that Prometheus's statement about him spending a lot of time playing games, talking about games and getting games was sad. I personally know Prometheus. I lived with the guy for a while. He values his secrecy so I won't disclose too much however, he has done multiple degrees, done three masters degrees has experienced a couple of world class universities that are in the top 10 in the world in math orientated subjects but has not chased a lucrative career, instead he is doing more science in the postgrad world. You may think my endorsement of this guy is a big laboured but I'm making a point that you're prejudging and simplifying things. If you stop judging people straight away you will see that society is not as bad or doomed as you think.

You read his comment on line and said that it was sad because he spends a lot of time playing and getting hold of games. What you failed to pick up from his comment is that he is a very dedicated scientist who has an amazing academic record and turns his back on careers that pay well for science. When I was living with him he was getting scores above 90%, when he went to a post grad interview at a university that's ranked in the top 10 in the world he taught the interviewers some maths and got a unconditional offer straight away. What I am saying is that you couldn't have been more wrong in your assessment about him and you were so wrong because you based it on an online comment he posted. I am confident that you are very wrong about the other people you are judging on the internet based on a few comments you've seen them post. I don't think society is shallow and petty, I think you're looking at it in a very lazy judgemental way.

 

I too spend time playing games, I sometimes waste whole days playing online games. I sometimes taunt people on these online games. I sometimes watch porn. When I was a kid I spent hours playing video games and board games. I'm starting my third degree, I got into UCL (currently ranked 7th in the world) for postgrad physics and engineering in medicine. I'm learning code in my spare time in-turn developing computer programs that scrape data off the internet (plan is to help map disease in third world countries in the future), I'm coming close to releasing my phone app that I have been developing. However, if you didn't know that about me and just looked at my facebook activity and played a few online games with me you'd think that my life was shallow petty and wasted. You cannot sum someone's life up by reading a few posts they write on the internet.

[Sirona]

Completely agree had to vote up. You have to think why people are playing games. Partly to pass time, simulate, because it's fun and because they get to simulate doing stuff they'd never do in real life. I play starcraft and order units to kill other units without even thinking twice...... In real life I definitely wouldn't facilitate killing. Same goes with the way I talk online. A conversation online generally has less impact because you don't know the person and they have no ties to your social circle. You can even mute them and considering the previous points you will forget about them very quickly. The problem is that people take themselves too seriously on the internet. Whilst I don't shout abuse at people I sometimes taunt people when playing online games and I've lost count of how many people have taunted me. The bottom line is that they don't know anything about you. What I think is more interesting is the people who take it to heart. There is an increasing number of people who really freak out when someone has a difference of opinion to them or says that their efforts are not amazing. Colleges are partly to blame allowing the creation of "safe spaces", making up a line of facts which are usually victim orientated and attacking and demonising anyone who questions those facts. I am one small person in a vast world. I am not connected to you in any way apart from this dialog. If you don't like what I'm saying don't worry it will not affect your life in any way unless you choose for it to. Where the double standards really come out is when lefties call politicians and speakers who aren't left every name under the sun but then try and silence them when they say something they don't agree with. Thankfully in gaming freedom of speech is still going strong. Whilst some activists have tried to imposed their double standards onto this industry the gaming industry thankfully has remained market orientated which maintains freedom of choice and freedom of speech. Instead of buckling to tyranny they let their customers decide. If you want to engage in this horseplay you can do that. If you don't no one is forcing you to play. If there is enough people who want a heavily policed gaming platform then there would be a market for it and money to be made. More heavier policing would cost more. If you'd like to pay more for that then it would be your choice to seek out such a service as long as I don't have to be forced to pay more people because someone else is too delicate.

 

 

I completely agree. Also, it's often a strategy used to find like minded people in online games or forums too. Since we generally hide behind the comfort of anonymity, most gamers/geeks/nerds don't disclose much about themselves, rarely have pictures or talk about their hobbies, personal lives or relationships. Therefore, the way they hold themselves in discussion becomes the most important factor in determining whether or not you choose to interact with them or not. Someone who always sees themselves as the victim and can't defend their arguments and opinions by using evidence or facts and are easily offended are generally not popular on forums/online games because it's the only weaknesses that can be perceived online.

 

It's not too different offline, except we have more aspects to judge people by and are more diplomatic about it only because we're less free in the sense that we're more connected and exposed. Everyone passes judgement, it's just a part of human nature and we're much more limited online in the way we choose who we want to communicate with.

[Eldad Eshel]

Academic success isn't everything, honestly it is something kind of expected by us since we were born. It is the course that society dictates to every individual, sort of like how a woman is expected to give birth to children and raise them. Personally I have strayed from the academy, I was psychotic in my early life and maybe missed it, and today at the age of 34 I am not eager about it. I even look down upon it a bit as it is SO competitive, and like a meat grinding machine of grades. I still think that remark by your friend I commented about and you did also is very sad and shallow and reminds me of a young child mesmerized by something so mundane and shallow like today's pc games. Something I feel sad for, or disgusted by. I myself play pc games, but it is mainly to pass time and have something constant to do, I actually prefer not to play them at all if I could, but as I mentioned before I suffer from boredom and depression so it is hard. I also don't have a life partner or social company, which is my goal for the future. I think it is the key to happiness. Online games today are very popular with all ages, and mainly with the younger ones, I think they are mostly very shallow and over competitive, not to mention the community, that is ridiculously shallow. It is quite a joke. Another important thing is the trend of these online games to hog money from it's users, people of all ages spending ridiculous amounts of money on things so stupid. Just adding to the overall shallownessof of nowadays PC games. I remember when I was a teenager the popular genre of pc games was strategy games, which are much more respectable than modern online games. This genre is currently almost dead.

[Sirona]

Wait, since when is being competitive a bad thing?

[Eldad Eshel]

Wait, since when is being competitive a bad thing?

Competitiveness can be a bad thing, mainly in over competitiveness. When people lose their humanity for the cause, when all they see is the goal ahead, like say money, and elbow push their way to it. I think also for kids competitiveness is cruel, already from a very young age they are faced with much competitiveness, if it is grades, general success at even the smallest things or their looks. I think this world of ours is very cruel and cold. When it comes to school all it is is about grades and more grades, being a survival issue at older age. I call it the meat grinding machine. But this is capitalism, a dog eat dog world. From a sociological point a view you can say competitiveness is a good thing as it gives results, but I think it is mainly cold and cruel.

If it were my call I would go for a more supportive kind of way. If I ever have kids I don't think I will let them go into regular school, I am disgusted by it.