Donald Trump

[dimreepr]

Donald Trump – president of the US of A, I’m not American but, even so, how scared should I be? And how many of his BS non sequiturs would get through congress?

[DrmDoc]

He the PT Barnum and Gorgeous George of the political circus and arena. He's an entertainer; although, I felt similarly about Arnold Shwarzenegger when he ran for Governor of California and Ronald Reagan for POTUS--Doh and Yikes!

Edited February 10, 2016 by DrmDoc

[Phi for All]

I was convinced he was being paid by the GOP to take the temperature of America, see what the hot buttons are, and be as outrageous about it as possible. I never thought he'd be taken this seriously as a candidate, mostly because of his denigration of women, and the fact that he LIES so much, and BIG LIES too. I couldn't imagine even Republicans supporting him after a debate with Sanders or Clinton pointed out all the LIES.

 

Now, I don't know. He claims the USA is #1 on education per pupil by a factor of 4, and while intellectuals look this up and realize he's LYING, conservatives nod their heads and don't check. He gets to LIE and say he opposed the Iraq war, when anyone (except conservatives) can check to see he was as rabid as anyone else in the Republican Party to go to war.

 

I think he appeals to some because he supposedly understands bidness. These folks say we need to get a bidnessman in there, that's what we need! Bush II was a bidnessman, and did some very proctologically unsound things to this country, but I guess that was so long ago, they've forgotten.

 

Bush II lied his ass off too. Whoppers like Trump, not little white lies or exaggerations or stretching the truth.

 

To tell the truth, I can't imagine Trump as an American President. I really think I'd have to move, for health reasons. Trump makes me sick.

[DrmDoc]

To tell the truth, I can't imagine Trump as an American President. I really think I'd have to move, for health reasons. Trump makes me sick.

Ditto!

[Phi for All]

Ditto!

 

He also causes me whiplash from shaking my head so much.

[EdEarl]

I'm not a Trump fan, but this image is funny, and a bit too much.

 

[Bill Angel]

I would expect that winning the New Hampshire primary is good for a candidate's ego, but isn't necessarily indicative of the outcome of the electoral process.

See:

New Hampshire primary history: Candidates who won the state but weren't elected president, 1984-2012

http://www.newsday.com/news/nation/new-hampshire-primary-history-candidates-who-won-the-state-but-weren-t-elected-president-1984-2012-1.11452090

[DrmDoc]

I would expect that winning the New Hampshire primary is good for a candidate's ego, but isn't necessarily indicative of the outcome of the electoral process.

See:

New Hampshire primary history: Candidates who won the state but weren't elected president, 1984-2012

http://www.newsday.com/news/nation/new-hampshire-primary-history-candidates-who-won-the-state-but-weren-t-elected-president-1984-2012-1.11452090

 

My optimism and faith in humanity is restored! Thank you!

[DimaMazin]

I like Clinton, because she is honest , predictable and against Putin.

We can use Trump and Sanders against Putin but with dangerous delay

[neutrinosalad]

For anyone who is wondering why Donald Trump is so successful in the polls, they should read this article: http://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-trumps-america-1455290458

 

Here is a couple choice quotes from the article:

 

But the central truth of Trumpism as a phenomenon is that the entire American working class has legitimate reasons to be angry at the ruling class. During the past half-century of economic growth, virtually none of the rewards have gone to the working class. The economists can supply caveats and refinements to that statement, but the bottom line is stark: The real family income of people in the bottom half of the income distribution hasn’t increased since the late 1960s ...

 

... Add to this the fact that white working-class men are looked down upon by the elites and get little validation in their own communities for being good providers, fathers and spouses—and that life in their communities is falling apart. To top it off, the party they have voted for in recent decades, the Republicans, hasn’t done a damn thing to help them. Who wouldn’t be angry?

 

I would suggest reading the whole article to anyone who wants to have a deeper understanding of the Trump phenomenon.

 

Edit: it seems to now be restricted to subscribers when I check. Still, the quotes explain a little bit.

Edited February 15, 2016 by Capayan

[Phi for All]

What I don't get is why they think the Donald is going to suddenly be a champion of the working class. If he can make more money replacing you with foreign labor or a robot, do you think he'd hesitate to call you into his office and tell you, "You're FIRED!" He'll sell a LOT OF BOMBS for his friends in the industry, but do you think he's going to demand that the workers get paid commensurate with their productivity? What about the Donald would lead anyone to think that?!

 

Why does anyone listen to the lies that come out of his head?

[DimaMazin]

What I don't get is why they think the Donald is going to suddenly be a champion of the working class. If he can make more money replacing you with foreign labor or a robot, do you think he'd hesitate to call you into his office and tell you, "You're FIRED!" He'll sell a LOT OF BOMBS for his friends in the industry, but do you think he's going to demand that the workers get paid commensurate with their productivity? What about the Donald would lead anyone to think that?!

 

Why does anyone listen to the lies that come out of his head?

Capayan is correct. Crass workers are crasser voters.

[Bill Angel]

He the PT Barnum and Gorgeous George of the political circus and arena. He's an entertainer; although, I felt similarly about Arnold Shwarzenegger when he ran for Governor of California and Ronald Reagan for POTUS--Doh and Yikes!

Trump's idea of what he thinks is entertaining seems to be somewhat moronic. This is illustrated by citing a couple of his Tweets:

 

"I cant believe Apple isnt moving faster to create a larger iPhone screen. Bring back Steve Jobs!"

Note that this Tweet is from 2013. Steve Jobs died in 2011.

 

Another of Trump's tweets from 2013:

"So, lets get this right. Steve Jobs dies and leaves his wife everything-billions of dollars. Now his wife has a boyfriend (lover). Oh Steve!"

[DrmDoc]

Trump's idea of what he thinks is entertaining seems to be somewhat moronic. This is illustrated by citing a couple of his Tweets:

 

"I cant believe Apple isnt moving faster to create a larger iPhone screen. Bring back Steve Jobs!"

Note that this Tweet is from 2013. Steve Jobs died in 2011.

 

Another of Trump's tweets from 2013:

"So, lets get this right. Steve Jobs dies and leaves his wife everything-billions of dollars. Now his wife has a boyfriend (lover). Oh Steve!"

Hi-la-ri-ous! Somebody call me a doctor! What a moron!

[overtone]

Why does anyone listen to the lies that come out of his head?

Conditioning. After decades of Fox and Limbaugh, the Republican voting base is in its comfort zone with Trump.

 

He's just saying the same stuff Limbaugh and Hannity and Beck and Kelly and O'Reilly and Coulter and a thousand other lesser lights of the rightwing media operations have been saying for years - decades. Why would that audience reject it now?

 

Yeah, they're angry. It hurts to shoot yourself in the foot over and over again, and a lot of the pain is humiliation. But the lefties had the rise of Trump called as soon as he threw his hat in the ring, and the reasoning was as follows: the Republican voting base is what it is and will behave as it has been behaving.

Edited February 15, 2016 by overtone

[Phi for All]

a lot of the pain is humiliation.

 

This is, imo, what drives the average Trump follower to double down on the ridiculousness.

 

It was supposed to be a great relationship. The GOP promised they loved them, would keep them safe, keep them living the dream. Then they started groping them like they owned them, made them feel dirty, but what's a little dirt when they've got it so good?

 

Then the GOP had their way with them, and it was wrong, but they'd said yes so many times before. Hard to feel dignity when you've been raped, but want everyone to know it's OK, you knew the rapist, and it really wasn't that bad.

 

But then the GOP starts doing things that are beyond the pale. Things their worst enemies (the liberals) are calling insane, and unfit, and WRONG. They have to decide if bending over is worse than admitting the liberals might have a point.

 

I think it would be humiliating to know, in your heart of hearts, that the folks you dislike most are just trying to keep everyone from being sodomized by the folks you like the most.

[neutrinosalad]

I think it would be humiliating to know, in your heart of hearts, that the folks you dislike most are just trying to keep everyone from being sodomized by the folks you like the most.

 

Part of the problem is that Democrats do not respect the culture or values of blue collar white Americans, which is a very socially conservative lifestyle.

 

Jim Webb actually discusses this:

 

 

This is a great video that goes over the problem. Blue collar workers are caught in a double-bind. Democrats do not respect their culture or values. Republicans do not respect their economic needs.

 

For the blue collar Americans, culture "trumps" economic needs. By sidling up behind Trump, they are revolting against the establishment for ignoring their economic needs in an attempt to have their cake and eat it too.

[Phi for All]

For the blue collar Americans, culture "trumps" economic needs. By sidling up behind Trump, they are revolting against the establishment for ignoring their economic needs in an attempt to have their cake and eat it too.

 

The "establishment" that was established by businessmen like Trump, to benefit businessmen like Trump? Revolting is a great word for it.

 

What's really at the heart of the matter is a perspective that imagines Democrats aren't supporting various cultures. The blue collar worker is EXACTLY who people like Bernie Sanders want to empower through education, banking reform, and tighter regulations on how those blue collar workers are compensated. Nobody on the Republican side, especially not Donald Trump, is really trying to help the middle class.

[neutrinosalad]

 

The "establishment" that was established by businessmen like Trump, to benefit businessmen like Trump? Revolting is a great word for it.

 

What's really at the heart of the matter is a perspective that imagines Democrats aren't supporting various cultures. The blue collar worker is EXACTLY who people like Bernie Sanders want to empower through education, banking reform, and tighter regulations on how those blue collar workers are compensated. Nobody on the Republican side, especially not Donald Trump, is really trying to help the middle class.

 

Phi for All, it is not an imagined perspective. When I see progressives rail against Catholicism because the Pope does not support abortion rights, I do not see that as supportive of the Catholic perspective on abortion rights. That is just one of many examples I could use.

 

Bernie Sanders is actually the second choice for many people who want Trump to be president. Here is yet another video where John McCain brings up that interesting tidbit (skip to 1:10 if you don't want to watch the whole video):

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkMGrqNWxw0

 

Personally, Bernie Sanders approach seems to lack the animosity that some of the other progressives have towards socially conservative people. His focus has been on bringing the American people together.

[iNow]

Nobody on the Republican side, especially not Donald Trump, is really trying to help the middle class.

Oh, balderdash. Of course they are! Helping is ALL they're doing... For example, they're explaining how important it is to scapegoat the muslims and mexicans and the chinese and women and the liberals and anyone else that will distract them from the fact that only some folks are actually proposing solutions that will help address the root issues. Geesh, Phi... Stop being so partisan!1!!2!!one!

[Phi for All]

Phi for All, it is not an imagined perspective. When I see progressives rail against Catholicism because the Pope does not support abortion rights, I do not see that as supportive of the Catholic perspective on abortion rights. That is just one of many examples I could use.

I think you're putting the cart before the horse here. Progressives aren't railing against Catholicism when they object to banning abortions. They're simply looking at history, and determining that abortions happen at about the same rate whether legal or not. The issue isn't a religious one to many people, it's about saving women from dark alley butchery.

 

I don't think this is a good example of what you mean. Do you have any others?

 

In a similar vein, progressives usually hold the Catholic Church up as an example of a religion that acknowledges evolution, and often use them to "rail" against creationists who insist the Creation "Science" should be taught in school. It shouldn't be about the ideology, or the party, or whether you're conservative or liberal. It should be about doing wise things with our government, something I don't believe the Donald is capable of.

[Willie71]

What I don't get is why they think the Donald is going to suddenly be a champion of the working class. If he can make more money replacing you with foreign labor or a robot, do you think he'd hesitate to call you into his office and tell you, "You're FIRED!" He'll sell a LOT OF BOMBS for his friends in the industry, but do you think he's going to demand that the workers get paid commensurate with their productivity? What about the Donald would lead anyone to think that?!

 

Why does anyone listen to the lies that come out of his head?

I agree with you completely. Trump isn't for the working class, unless wages are reduced. http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/11/11/donald-trump-insists-that-wages-are-too-high/?_r=0 He flip flopped on this, but to compete with offshore labour, wages and regulations have to go down.

 

Trump is appealing to people who are the byproduct of decades of cuts to education, lack of opportunity, and need someone to blame. The scapegoating is meeting that need. There are a lot of people living in poverty, in conservative states that keep cutting the benefits. Instead of blaming the people who create unworkable economies, they blame the Mexicans, liberals, and Muslims in a great fir of "personal responsibility!" ..... wait..... Hmmmmmm....... I think trump is appealing to the "white trash conservative" who doesn't have the critical thinking skills to look beyond the message on the hat.

[neutrinosalad]

I think you're putting the cart before the horse here. Progressives aren't railing against Catholicism when they object to banning abortions. They're simply looking at history, and determining that abortions happen at about the same rate whether legal or not. The issue isn't a religious one to many people, it's about saving women from dark alley butchery.

 

I don't think this is a good example of what you mean. Do you have any others?

 

In a similar vein, progressives usually hold the Catholic Church up as an example of a religion that acknowledges evolution, and often use them to "rail" against creationists who insist the Creation "Science" should be taught in school. It shouldn't be about the ideology, or the party, or whether you're conservative or liberal. It should be about doing wise things with our government, something I don't believe the Donald is capable of.

 

Right now, I don't have any more good examples.

 

I would say one place to look is the ideological divide between Justice Scalia and Justice Ginsburg has differing implications in whose culture is being accepted.

[iNow]

Striking to me how it was the destruction of a wall that so animated republican love of Reagan and how it's now the building of a wall that so animates republican love of Trump and others.

 

Amazing, too, how "others" were made to build/pay for it...

 

Edited February 15, 2016 by iNow

[overtone]

This is a great video that goes over the problem. Blue collar workers are caught in a double-bind. Democrats do not respect their culture or values. Republicans do not respect their economic needs.

In what way, specifically, have "Democrats" disrespected the culture or values of "blue collar workers"?

 

Like these guys: http://therealdeal.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/construction-workers.jpg

 

https://cbsnewyork.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/120250092.jpg?w=620&h=349&crop=1

 

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.2211130.1430849930!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_635/article-shaft-0506.jpg

 

Or were you thinking more of these cultural and family values: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/51/66/3e/51663e0c3fd069609bbac7cddb4d1a1c.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/32/Vivian_Malone_registering.jpg

https://qph.is.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-10adc7257e051cb3fbc8cc5066ff2d02?convert_to_webp=true

 

 

 

When I see progressives rail against Catholicism because the Pope does not support abortion rights, - -

That's a bit strange. Where did you see that?

 

Was it the same place you saw dominionist Protestant evangelicals, Republican voters, rail against Catholicism because the Pope is the Antichrist? Because of their values, their culture, etc, you know.

Edited February 16, 2016 by overtone