Donald Trump

[Bill Angel]

Trump has recently made some controversial remarks about "enhanced interrogation techniques"

 

"I'd bring back waterboarding," Trump said during a February 7 debate. "And I'd bring back a hell of a lot worse than waterboarding."

 

"I have made it clear in my campaign that I would support and endorse the use of enhanced interrogation techniques if the use of these methods would enhance the protection and safety of the nation. Though the effectiveness of many of these methods may be in dispute, nothing should be taken off the table when American lives are at stake. The enemy is cutting off the heads of Christians and drowning them in cages, and yet we are too politically correct to respond in kind."

The above quote is an excerpt from an OP-ED attibuted to Trump in USA Today. See http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2016/02/15/donald-trump-torture-enhanced-interrogation-techniques-editorials-debates/80418458/

Is Trump suggesting that the USA should "respond in kind" by holding public spectacles where Muslim POWs are either beheaded or drowned in cages? Bad idea in my opinion.

[Phi for All]

Is Trump suggesting that the USA should "respond in kind" by holding public spectacles where Muslim POWs are either beheaded or drowned in cages? Bad idea in my opinion.

 

I think we should look into whether or not it's true that the Donald had the 73rd floor of Trump World Tower remodeled for this very reason.

[dimreepr]

Striking to me how it was the destruction of a wall that so animated republican love of Reagan and how it's now the building of a wall that so animates republican love of Trump and others.

 

Amazing, too, how "others" were made to build/pay for it...

 

 

 

Being bigger and stronger seems to be a superior position, as it appears to mean control, which is illusory. Western society is suffering from that delusion and will inevitably fail because of it; the greater the power the greater the illusion. Trump and too many others think money is another word for power or control and always fail to see the illusion; if money equates to a million bullets, how many people with knives and an attitude does it take?

 

Peace depends on fairness, as does our future; pulling up the drawbridge only invites invasion which will always succeed in the end; Trump, and his ilk, can only cause suffering.

 

Time can create the tallest mountains or the deepest valleys but it will always level the playing field, eventually.

[iNow]

Trump just won South Carolina.

[neutrinosalad]

Trump just won South Carolina.

 

Yup. I don't get the same visceral reaction to Trump that a lot of the fellow readers here do.

 

I think the build a wall stuff is pandering BS, same with the Muslim stuff.

 

Wall Street Journal has been writing hit pieces on Trump and they did bring up two points that did scare me. Trump seems to really want to engage in major tax cuts (for personal benefit from what it seems) and he wants to put up all of these tariffs on countries like China and Mexico. Riding up national debt and engaging in trade wars could be a one two punch that could really hurt the US economy in the long run.

[Phi for All]

 

Wall Street Journal has been writing hit pieces on Trump and they did bring up two points that did scare me. Trump seems to really want to engage in major tax cuts (for personal benefit from what it seems) and he wants to put up all of these tariffs on countries like China and Mexico. Riding up national debt and engaging in trade wars could be a one two punch that could really hurt the US economy in the long run.

 

He's ham-handed, extremist, and boorish. He would be the ugly American President caricature in the next two decades of foreign films. If there are any foreigners left to make them.

 

Trump. We can only guess what's in it for him.

[overtone]

And the chorus of the pundits are all saying the same thing: "nobody saw this coming".

 

Nobody except the actual "left" - the bloggers, genuine liberals, and so forth. You know, the people who have been consistently correct in their assessments of US economics and politics for decades now.

 

The fact that nobody on TV saw this coming six months ago means that the people who saw it coming were not, and still are not, on TV. Why is that?

 

 

 

I think the build a wall stuff is pandering BS, same with the Muslim stuff.

Wall Street Journal has been writing hit pieces on Trump and they did bring up two points that did scare me. Trump seems to really want to engage in major tax cuts (for personal benefit from what it seems) and he wants to put up all of these tariffs on countries like China and Mexico. Riding up national debt and engaging in trade wars could be a one two punch that could really hurt the US economy in the long run.

Relax, it's all pandering bs. It will ruin American social and economic policy, both foreign and domestic, but it's still bs.

Except the tax cuts continuing the cratering of the economy of the non-rich, of course - that's serious - but there's no difference between Trump and any other major Republican politician in that respect. That's been the Party's reason for existing since 1980.

So there's nothing to fear, for a Republican Party voter, except the fact that your entire Party has been a sewer of batshit incompetence and malign evil eroding the foundations of America for forty years, and the damage is approaching critical life support issues. Trump is just part of the Limbaugh, Reagan, Gingrich, Cheney, Ailes, Murdoch, Palin, Atwater, Rove, Haggard, Koch, Axis of Family Values. He fits right in. He belongs. There's nothing any scarier about him than the R after his name on the ballot.

[iNow]

Jeb Bush has dropped out of the race.

 

http://www.vox.com/2016/2/20/11079780/south-carolina-results-jeb-bush-quits

.

South Carolina governor, Nikki Haley, standing behind Narco Rubio as he gives his speech upon winning second place. Think I can guess who he'll name as his VP to increase ticket strength if he finds a way around Trump.

[overtone]

Jeb Bush has dropped out of the race

 

Knotting his tie wider, so his head would look less like a vegetable on a stick, apparently didn't turn things around.

 

So waterglass Rubio is stepping into the Klieg lights, the hopes of the nation on his shoulders - which would look a bit more comfortable under a Cub Scout neckerchief.

 

The last time, 2000, the Rep ticket discarded the whack, combined the evil and dumb on the one ticket, and everybody knew (wink, nudge) that the dumb wasn't going to be running everything. I doubt Cruz will accept either discard or VP. Neither will Trump. So the path forward is a murky one.

Edited February 21, 2016 by overtone

[Ten oz]

Jeb Bush has dropped out of the race.

 

http://www.vox.com/2016/2/20/11079780/south-carolina-results-jeb-bush-quits

.

South Carolina governor, Nikki Haley, standing behind Narco Rubio as he gives his speech upon winning second place. Think I can guess who he'll name as his VP to increase ticket strength if he finds a way around Trump.

Rubio was at 13% and Trump was at 37% in SC on Feb. 1st. Last Night Trump finished with 32% and Rubio finished with 22%. The gap shortened quick in SC. Super Tuesday states as it stands today: In GA Rubio and Trump are within a couple points of each other and in VA Rubio is up by 10 points. Cruz is up by 10 in Texas. I think Super Tuesday will be a bad night for Trump with Rubio winning GA and VA and Cruz TX (The 3 big ones).

 

Trump is stuck at a third support. A third support doesn't win the nomination. Jeb dropped and I would imagine the establishment is on the phone right now asking Kasich what it will take to get him out. As the field shrinks I think Rubio rises. All Rubio needs is 34-37% of the party support nationally to beat Trump who is stuck at 32%.

 

Ribio and Haley on paper is a great ticket. Problem is that a huge slice of Trump's third are bigots who would probably just stay home if that were the ticket. So while Rubio and Haley is a more competitive ticket than any ticket including Trump it still loses in November.

[imatfaal]

Rubio was at 13% and Trump was at 37% in SC on Feb. 1st. Last Night Trump finished with 32% and Rubio finished with 22%. The gap shortened quick in SC. Super Tuesday states as it stands today: In GA Rubio and Trump are within a couple points of each other and in VA Rubio is up by 10 points. Cruz is up by 10 in Texas. I think Super Tuesday will be a bad night for Trump with Rubio winning GA and VA and Cruz TX (The 3 big ones).

 

Trump is stuck at a third support. A third support doesn't win the nomination. Jeb dropped and I would imagine the establishment is on the phone right now asking Kasich what it will take to get him out. As the field shrinks I think Rubio rises. All Rubio needs is 34-37% of the party support nationally to beat Trump who is stuck at 32%.

 

Ribio and Haley on paper is a great ticket. Problem is that a huge slice of Trump's third are bigots who would probably just stay home if that were the ticket. So while Rubio and Haley is a more competitive ticket than any ticket including Trump it still loses in November.

 

Hmm - Nate S currently has Nevada at 38-39 Trump and 19-20 Rubio. Does it really make sense that ALL the support for Bush et al once they sod off will home in on Rubio? Cruz / Carson / Trump (the wingnut group - the cringe fringe) got about 60pct of the vote in SC - if those voters were gonna toe the line and vote for a mainstream party candidate wouldn't they have done so already.

 

Rubio took a beating the first time the ire of a demogogue was turned upon him (25 secs) - could he survive a debate with Trump and Cruz both kicking him? Cruz might reasonably think that whoever is left in a one on one with Trump will have a fine chance when everyone wakes from the trance

[iNow]

Bush support will quite likely flow entirely to Rubio or Kaisich, unless they feel Kaisich cannot win or is likely to withdraw.

[imatfaal]

Bush support will quite likely flow entirely to Rubio or Kaisich, unless they feel Kaisich cannot win or is likely to withdraw.

 

Sorry i should have been more clear - it was the et al and well as Bush that I was focusing on; the bush vote I agree upon. The non Rubio/Cruz/Trump vote would all need to flow to Rubio to have him overhaul in nevada - and whilst the majority might I cannot see it all going there.

[dimreepr]

Given the replies, I don’t think anyone doubts Trump is a certifiable nut job; but since Obama struggled to get anything through congress, however reasonable, would a Trump administration do any better? In other words are their enough fools in congress to support his lunacy?

[Ten oz]

 

Hmm - Nate S currently has Nevada at 38-39 Trump and 19-20 Rubio. Does it really make sense that ALL the support for Bush et al once they sod off will home in on Rubio? Cruz / Carson / Trump (the wingnut group - the cringe fringe) got about 60pct of the vote in SC - if those voters were gonna toe the line and vote for a mainstream party candidate wouldn't they have done so already.

 

Rubio took a beating the first time the ire of a demogogue was turned upon him (25 secs) - could he survive a debate with Trump and Cruz both kicking him? Cruz might reasonably think that whoever is left in a one on one with Trump will have a fine chance when everyone wakes from the trance

Trump is stuck at a third support. Rubio doesnt need 60%, he just needs a third and change. Trump has underperformed those far. He was suppose to do 36% in NH and did 32%. Same goes for SC. Meanwhile Rubio was projected to get 17% last night and got 22%, Rubio is actually performing better than polled. If That tend holds Rubio beats Trump in GA, wins VA (easy), and perhaps even comes in second behind Cruz in TX.

 

Obviously we will know much more after Super Tuesday. My guess in that Trump has a bad showing on Super Tuesday and that will change the narative significantly.

[Phi for All]

Given the replies, I don’t think anyone doubts Trump is a certifiable nut job; but since Obama struggled to get anything through congress, however reasonable, would a Trump administration do any better? In other words are their enough fools in congress to support his lunacy?

 

Of course there are. I think a Trump presidency would be worse than W's when it comes to removing obstacles to profit that were originally set up to protect People instead of corporations. He'll open up new areas of greed and corruption, new ways to use the Constitution for toilet paper, he'll fulfill the industrial-military dream of full-scale chaos and destabilization while growing the War on Terrorism^TM brand to its maximum business potential, all the while giving more power to govern to the mega-corps.

 

Fear, fear, fear, but trust the Donald to take care of you. You're going to have to give up a lot for that care. Mostly integrity, competency, and stuff like that we weren't using much anyway.

 

But I still remain fairly certain none of this is going to happen. Ultimately, I'm going to trust that People won't give up and actually vote T.

[dimreepr]

 

Of course there are. I think a Trump presidency would be worse than W's when it comes to removing obstacles to profit that were originally set up to protect People instead of corporations. He'll open up new areas of greed and corruption, new ways to use the Constitution for toilet paper, he'll fulfill the industrial-military dream of full-scale chaos and destabilization while growing the War on Terrorism^TM brand to its maximum business potential, all the while giving more power to govern to the mega-corps.

 

Fear, fear, fear, but trust the Donald to take care of you. You're going to have to give up a lot for that care. Mostly integrity, competency, and stuff like that we weren't using much anyway.

 

But I still remain fairly certain none of this is going to happen. Ultimately, I'm going to trust that People won't give up and actually vote T.

 

 

I really hope you’re right but, just in case, how much does it cost to get to ISS?

Edited February 21, 2016 by dimreepr

[Phi for All]

I really hope you’re right but, just in case, how much does it cost to get to ISS?

 

I'm wondering how difficult it would be to apply for admission as a refugee. I'd love to flee fascism in the US by moving to Germany.

[dimreepr]

 

I'm wondering how difficult it would be to apply for admission as a refugee. I'd love to flee fascism in the US by moving to Germany.

 

 

If irony could be converted into currency then both of us would have a free passage.

[imatfaal]

 

I'm wondering how difficult it would be to apply for admission as a refugee. I'd love to flee fascism in the US by moving to Germany.

 

BTW - in your liberal utopia a few hours ago they were cheering the burning of a hostel for asylum seekers and bystanders were preventing the fire-fighters from tackling the blaze.

[neutrinosalad]

 

Hmm - Nate S currently has Nevada at 38-39 Trump and 19-20 Rubio. Does it really make sense that ALL the support for Bush et al once they sod off will home in on Rubio? Cruz / Carson / Trump (the wingnut group - the cringe fringe) got about 60pct of the vote in SC - if those voters were gonna toe the line and vote for a mainstream party candidate wouldn't they have done so already.

 

Rubio took a beating the first time the ire of a demogogue was turned upon him (25 secs) - could he survive a debate with Trump and Cruz both kicking him? Cruz might reasonably think that whoever is left in a one on one with Trump will have a fine chance when everyone wakes from the trance

 

People need to wake up to Rubio. Rubio is literally as dumb as a pile of rocks, which makes him easily controllable. His main backers have been Sheldon Adelson and Norman Braman. Both of those guys are connected to the AIPAC and the Neoconservative group. It appears that the Sheldon, Norman and the Neocons as a whole have identified Rubio as their easily controllable puppet.

 

That is why Marco Rubio is getting so much face time and media support.

 

Now check this out:

 

"The United States could do a thorough job of destruction, but Israel alone can do what's necessary," John Bolton, ambassador to the United Nations during the George W. Bushadministration, recently wrote in the New York Times. "Such action should be combined with vigorous American support for Iran's opposition, aimed at regime change in Tehran."

 

John Bolton is a known Neocon.

 

Source: http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-heilbrunn-iran-framework-republican-neocon-response-20150403-story.html

 

The latest genius idea the Neocons have been pushing is for regime change in Iran. That means that if Marco Rubio ends up in the office, the Neocons will be calculating in the background on how to engage in a boots in the ground war with Iran. Given the fact that Iran has deepening economic and military ties with Russia and China, engaging in such a war smells like the start of World War III.

 

Not only that but given the fact that George W Bush was the poster boy for Neocons, it would also mean tax cuts for the rich and the blue collar workers getting screwed over harder than ever.

 

When you put all the dots together, it becomes clear that Marco Rubio is literally the worst choice out of the three.

 

Of course there are. I think a Trump presidency would be worse than W's when it comes to removing obstacles to profit that were originally set up to protect People instead of corporations. He'll open up new areas of greed and corruption, new ways to use the Constitution for toilet paper, he'll fulfill the industrial-military dream of full-scale chaos and destabilization while growing the War on Terrorism^TM brand to its maximum business potential, all the while giving more power to govern to the mega-corps.

 

Fear, fear, fear, but trust the Donald to take care of you. You're going to have to give up a lot for that care. Mostly integrity, competency, and stuff like that we weren't using much anyway.

 

But I still remain fairly certain none of this is going to happen. Ultimately, I'm going to trust that People won't give up and actually vote T.

 

Phi, Trump has been the most vocal critic of the Iraq war during this primary season.

 

Here is just one example:

 

Trump said the war in Iraq led to instability in the Middle East that gave rise to the Islamic State. “Saddam Hussein was a bad guy,” he said. “One thing about him: He killed terrorists. Now Iraq is [a] harbor for terrorism.”

 

Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/the-war-in-iraq-haunts-the-2016-presidential-contest/2016/02/16/f29b8686-d44e-11e5-b195-2e29a4e13425_story.html

 

He cares more about the people than any establishment candidate ever will. Look at this:

 

The group, which included state Reps. Eric Eastman and Max Abramson, was eager for Trump to earn their support by going on the record against the Medicaid expansion, an issue that comes before the New Hampshire Legislature this week. Conversations with the campaigns of Trump’s rivals had paid dividends: Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz delivered detailed, on-video condemnations of state Medicaid expansion in response to questions at local events. Trump’s state chair, Andrew Hemingway, said he thought he could get his boss to weigh in at a rally Thursday in Portsmouth, according to a person at the meeting. But the next night, Trump took a pass.

“I want to get rid of Obamacare and get you something great,” Trump vaguely offered. “We have some people that won’t be able to live. We have to help people. Don’t we have to help? What are we going to do, let them die in the street?”

 

Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2016/02/09/trump-disqualifies-himself-for-the-gop-nomination-again/?tid=hybrid_experimentrandom_2_na

 

Trump would not say he was against Medicaid expansion. He supports helping people financially. He's just being monumentally stupid when it comes to think about how that stuff needs to be financed... through taxes.

 

I understand that Trump is a buffoon and says some ridiculous crap, but there are some legitimate reasons for why people support him. A significant portion of the Republican base is against interventionist wars and they just want someone who will try to help them. Trump has been pretty consistent on both of those things and it is a part of the reason why he is winning.

[dimreepr]

 

BTW - in your liberal utopia a few hours ago they were cheering the burning of a hostel for asylum seekers and bystanders were preventing the fire-fighters from tackling the blaze.

 

 

 

And they say terrorism doesn’t pay.

[Phi for All]

Phi, Trump has been the most vocal critic of the Iraq war during this primary season.

 

So what? That simply tells us he's not planning to invade Iraq. He's still talking about doing all the things that have proven to grow terrorism and US involvement in military actions in the Middle East, only more so. Who do you think he's going to be waterboarding (is that even torture, honestly?).

 

The first time I remember hearing about Donald Trump, the government was suing him over discrimination against blacks in apartment buildings he owned. He does NOT care about helping ANYONE financially except himself, and there is so much evidence of this out there. He receives more charity than he gives.

[iNow]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/sanderss-plans-make-republicans-look-serious/2016/02/18/4dbddb40-d684-11e5-b195-2e29a4e13425_story.html

The nonpartisan Tax Policy Center estimates that Marco Rubio’s would produce deficits of $8.2 trillion over the next 10 years.

 

Ted Cruz’s plan clocks in at $10.2 trillion in deficits.

 

And Donald Trump, predictably, outdoes them all with a proposal that would add $11.2 trillion in deficits and increase the national debt by nearly 80 percent of gross domestic product over the next two decades.

 

Even House Speaker Paul Ryan, famous for his budgetary expertise and pragmatism, proposed a budget in 2014 in which the math was unworkable. He promised to cut $5.1 trillion in spending over a decade — a 29 percent drop in the budget.

 

To put this in perspective, the largest spending drop in six decades was a one-year fall of 3.4 percent, in 1955, as part of the demobilization after the Korean War.

 

So why do Republicans do it? Because they know what the base wants to hear, are aware that none of it is remotely plausible and so have decided that policy proposals are no longer, well, actual policy proposals. Instead, they serve as signals — emotional impulses meant to energize supporters.

[Bells]

What I don't get is why they think the Donald is going to suddenly be a champion of the working class. If he can make more money replacing you with foreign labor or a robot, do you think he'd hesitate to call you into his office and tell you, "You're FIRED!" He'll sell a LOT OF BOMBS for his friends in the industry, but do you think he's going to demand that the workers get paid commensurate with their productivity? What about the Donald would lead anyone to think that?!

 

Why does anyone listen to the lies that come out of his head?

 

Because the working class were virtually told, nay, it was drilled into their heads over the last few years, that someone who is "anti-establishment", "not Washington", is what is best for them and the country.

 

 

For the past several years, leading voices of what Matt Lewis has called “con$ervative” media, along with groups like Heritage Action, and politicians such as Senator Ted Cruz, have ceaselessly flogged the false storyline that the Republican “grassroots” have been betrayed by the Republican leadership in Washington.

Rather than aim their anger at President Obama and the Democrats, commentators such as Ann Coulter and Mark Levin, right-wing websites, and many others have instead repeated the libel that “Republicans gave Obama everything he wanted.” There has been a flavor of the “stab in the back” to these accusations. But for the treachery of the Republican party, they claim, a party too timorous or too corrupt to stand up to Obama, we could have defunded Obamacare, balanced the budget, halted the Iran deal, you name it.

[...]

So congratulations to those conservatives who’ve been preaching the “betrayal” of the base by the establishment. You’ve won. You’ve convinced 70 percent of the Republican primary electorate (per the CBS poll) that the most important quality in a candidate is that he will “shake up the political system.”

 

[Source]

 

 

I may disagree with the general sentiment espoused by Mona Charen, for The National Review, those few paragraphs go to the heart of the matter when it comes to Trump's support within the Republican Party and what they tout as being the Republican base.

 

It is why the Tea Party candidates did so well previously. They have been told, repeatedly, that "establishment" Republicans, or "RINOS" as they put it, were not representative of the values of the Republican base, of the working class Republicans. And we have seen previously how Tea Party candidates were running against fellow Republicans and winning, because they represented anti-establishment values and were not like the Republican politicians. This has been a running theme for a while now.

 

Those very people who pushed the line that the conservatives serving in the Senate and Congress were not really Republican enough, or they were part of the "establishment", the "Washington elite", are now facing having someone like Trump win the candidacy for the Republican Party, because voters took them seriously and they are looking to the non establishment and non-politician candidate. Not only that, but the Republican Party has been pandering to anti-immigration and racist ideology for a few decades now, they have pandered to the far right for so long, that the far right has grown to proportions they probably never imagined.

 

The reason Trump is polling so well is because he isn't a politician. And the reason why that is so important is because working class Republicans and the right wing of the party, have been told, repeatedly from all sources connected to that party, that what they truly need is someone who is not a politician and not connected to Washington. Trump merely tapped into their biggest fears and has told them what they truly want to hear. The fears that have been fed by that party for years now.

 

Trump, is, to put it bluntly, their chicken that has returned home to roost. He is the ungodly child that the ultra-conservative pundits and Tea Party supporters have been demanding to support their values. And the Republican Party did nothing to stem that flow or tide of sentiment over the last few decades. How can any of them truly be surprised that it has now come to this?

 

The only surprise any of us should be feeling right now, is surprise that the Republican Party went for decades and never actually saw this coming. The writing was on the wall in flaming paint, when McCain chose Palin to be his VP to garner the votes from the ultra right. They pandered. They courted them. They gave them a voice and supported that voice. And the Republican base, the working class they worked so hard to make sure they heard those right wing voices, believed them and bought into it. They are now reaping what they have sown.