Donald Trump

[Memammal]

@ Phi for All & Delta1212: Seeing that you were/are dealing with the issue of moderate Democrats/Republicans, I have been struggling to understand the growing emergence of right wing extremists. I am not a USA citizen, so not entirely informed, but it seems to have started after Obama was first elected. At this point it appears that the majority of Republicans have moved away from the moderate middle ground to the right though, which would explain how the likes of a Trump end up being the Republican candidate. But how has this happened and more importantly, what are the prognosis i.t.o. balancing out these extreme sentiments? I know the American demographics have been changing quite quickly. Has this something to do with a right wing resurgence...and will it subsequently lead to a balancing act of some sorts? There seems to be a polarizing effect going on and the growing racism and bigotry appear to be symptoms thereof..? That being said, the same kind of thing is happening in European countries. Recent elections in Austria as well as the Brexit vote, among others, seem to indicate a similar move towards the right. In the case of Europe it has a lot to do with the massive inflow of Middle Eastern and North African nationals though.

[swansont]

@ Phi for All & Delta1212: Seeing that you were/are dealing with the issue of moderate Democrats/Republicans, I have been struggling to understand the growing emergence of right wing extremists. I am not a USA citizen, so not entirely informed, but it seems to have started after Obama was first elected.

 

Depends on what you mean by emergence. They have certainly been easier to find — emerging from the shadows — but the underlying policies and attitudes have been around for much longer.

 

Here's a good summary

http://whatever.scalzi.com/2016/10/11/trump-the-gop-and-the-fall/

 

[N]ote well: Donald Trump is not a black swan, an unforeseen event erupting upon an unsuspecting Republican Party. He is the end result of conscious and deliberate choices by the GOP, going back decades, to demonize its opponents, to polarize and obstruct, to pursue policies that enfeeble the political weal and to yoke the bigot and the ignorant to their wagon and to drive them by dangling carrots that they only ever intended to feed to the rich. Trump’s road to the candidacy was laid down and paved by the Southern Strategy, by Lee Atwater and Newt Gingrich and Karl Rove, by Fox News and the Tea Party, and by the smirking cynicism of three generations of GOP operatives, who have been fracking the white middle and working classes for years, crushing their fortunes with their social and economic policies, never imagining it would cause an earthquake.

 

[rangerx]

 

Here's a good summary

http://whatever.scalzi.com/2016/10/11/trump-the-gop-and-the-fall/

 

 

That was a good read. The author, while somewhat hyperbolic, summarized the situation quite deftly.

 

The comments section was good too. I read all of them. Many were from disenfranchised conservatives who don't feel the need to belittle anyone, cling to talking points or toe party lines.

 

It was refreshing.

[Ten oz]

 

Neither major party represents me very well, but because the overall social perspective of the Democrats is much more reasonably and realistically aligned with mine, I tend to give them my vote. Personally, I think if Obama had been white, he might have been given the respect his behavior should have earned him (in many stances, he and Hillary look just like moderate Republicans). Throughout his terms, President Obama and his family have embodied the very best of what it means to serve the US as its highest elected official. Whether or not you agree with his policies, I think an honest person has to admit the deck was stacked against him in terms of situation and support. He inherited a country in wreckage, and did the best he could with little help from the other branches supposedly dedicated to our prosperity. He was absolutely one of the best.

 

The Republicans feared this nightmare of blacks and women running for POTUS would unfold eventually, and their intractable, juvenile, fingers-in-the-ears-blockade of anything good that might come of it has tarnished their reputation worldwide, something they seem oblivious to (or just don't give a rat's ass about, because hey, foreigners). They've done things other administrations would have considered unimaginable (like denying a POTUS hearings on SCOTUS candidates - last time that was done was 1875).

 

And now it looks like they're going to urinate similarly all over the first woman POTUS' administration. Trump is their candidate, and he's the perfect embodiment of what the party has become, as evident by all the support he's still getting from the party and its members. At this point, I'm so tired of the gridlock that I might even welcome a Democrat-controlled Congress. But I'd rather the Republicans would decide to just get their shit together and stop blocking non-white, non-male presidents just because of who they are.

This gets lost in the rhetoric about the way both parties are the same and our (the people's) vote doesn't matter. Obama took the wheel at a very difficult time in our country. His efforts were deliberatly undermined throughout by opposing party opposition at levels we have never seen in the modern era. Considering the many govt constraints built into our 3 branch system President Obama has been extremely effective and despite attempts to invent scandals his 2 terms have been remarkably scandal free. If President Obama was a White Male I believe his approval rating would be higher by double digits. He has done a solid job. Significantly better than the president who preceded him.

[neutrinosalad]

".....What is the evidence that Trump matches up with this demographic of disaffected TWCM (Traditional White Christian Males) and for the reasons I note? Well, first there is the basic voting pattern data. At the aggregate polling level Trump is appealing to angry White men, who have lower than average socio-economic status. A second feature of Trump’s rise that lends credibility to this analysis is that his candidacy is not really driven by any clear ideology because, in fact, Trump is all over the ideological/political map. It is much better described as a cult of personality. It is what Trump’s personality symbolizes that drives his current base...."

 

The reason why it is hard to identify any sort of ideological construct that Trump follows is because his ideology does not fall within the normal right left boundaries that have existed in the modern era of American politics.

 

I was skimming through an article of the New Yorker about Trump and here is a little line about him in the article that really struck me about how pin-point accurate it was about Trump and what he believes:

 

 

 

When Trump talks about what he will create and what he will eliminate, he doesn’t depart from three core principles: in his view, America is doing too much to try to solve the world’s problems; trade agreements are damaging the country; and immigrants are detrimental to it. He wanders and hedges and doubles back, but he is governed by a strong instinct for self-preservation, and never strays too far from his essential positions.

 

Source: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/09/26/president-trumps-first-term

 

Trump's ideological perception of the world is based around basic human instincts of survival rather than political constructs. When you begin to look at him from that perspective, you will see that his core beliefs have remained unchanged for 30 years, and his behavior begins to make sense.

[Memammal]

That seems to be a very naive approach. Enclosing one of the leading democratic capitalist societies that was formed by immigrants for immigrants beyond its own wall, is not very American. Keeping its military might out of other people's business may indeed be a step in the right direction, but there is that subtle (and way too subtle for Trump to comprehend) yet vital responsibility to keep the various world powers in check. As was mentioned elsewhere/earlier, the USA government can afford to sustain a large military presence in other parts of the world because those foreign powers want them there and thus finance the costs of having them there. It is cheaper to have military bases in some other parts of the world than having them in the U.S.A., for example. Trump seems entirely oblivious to this reality.

Edited October 25, 2016 by Memammal

[Ophiolite]

Trump seems entirely oblivious to this reality.

You seem to have inadvertently inserted an extra word in that sentence.

 

Here is a corrected version. Trump seems entirely oblivious to this reality.

[Memammal]

Here's a good summary

http://whatever.scalzi.com/2016/10/11/trump-the-gop-and-the-fall/

I only just found the time to read it and gosh, it was such a good read.

 

Here is a corrected version. Trump seems entirely oblivious to this reality.

Lol, I stand to be corrected.

[Memammal]

^ Not sure how many of you have seen this:-

 

There are things that are funny “because they are true,” and then there are things that are sort of funny, but would be funnier if they weren’t so very true. A case in point, video maker Matt Orfalea found an old copy of the 1990s puppet sitcom Dinosaurs. You don’t need to know the 1990s show or have liked it if you do, to watch the clip below. Comparing Donald Trump’s interviews and candidacy seem to resemble, like a Twilight Zone episode, the triceratops bad guy on the 1990s sitcom—Mr. B.P. Richfield.

Trump runs for President. Richfield runs for “Elder.” Trump is crass and sexist and mean. Just saying. Richfield says that all of the dinosaurs problems are caused by the “four-leggers” who have been immigrating from over by the swamp. You get the picture.

Enjoy!
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/10/25/1586843/-Somebody-realized-that-Donald-Trump-is-actually-a-dinosaur-character-from-1990s-and-it-is-uncanny
Direct link to YouTube video:

​

[dimreepr]

Just consider America, to us Brits brexit means, oh fuck what have we done...

[DimaMazin]

Just consider America, to us Brits brexit means, oh fuck what have we done...

Free UK isn't my enamy. Trump's USA will be my enamy.

[Endy0816]

I would hate for us to be enemas.

[dimreepr]

I would hate for us to be enemas.

 

 

Only the weird and health freaks welcomes an enema...

[Endy0816]

lol, seriously I don't think Trump himself is that much of a danger, more concerned what will happen if elections continue to be as divisive as this one has been.

[Phi for All]

I would hate for us to be enemas.

 

Forgive your anemones, but never forget their names. -- JFK

[Airbrush]

Even if Trump loses this election, he will never quit trying to put Hillary in prison, right? His "Birther" obsession will shift into a "Crooked-Hillary" obsession that will never end. He will try to destabilize the Clinton administration as much as he can, in every way he can, without much regard for our country or the world, but merely to satisfy his own obsession. We will still be forced to see his huge face on TV and his big, nasty, contorted lips flapping in every way imaginable, because he knows how to insert himself into the news, on a daily basis, for the rest of his life.

 

He's a "star", and "stars" can do "ANYTHING".

Edited October 31, 2016 by Airbrush

[iNow]

On ABCNews program This Week with George Stephanopoulos yesterday, I watched live as Republican Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, Bob Goodlatte, seems to have had a bit of a Freudian slip and may have given us all an unintended peak and insight into what the next 4+ years portend:

 

 

What's the old saying? A gaffe is when a politician accidentally tells the truth.

[Airbrush]

"Make America Great Again"

 

Does anyone know when exactly, in American history, Trump Is referring to?

 

At first I assumed he meant after WW2 the US emerged as a great world economic and military power. America helped conquer great evil in Hitler, Mussolini, and Tojo. America's greatness would be the period starting in 1945 and into the 1950s. The generation emerging from WW2 is often known as the "Greatest Generation".

 

Now I think he means the decade of the 1960s because he started high school in a military academy in about 1960 and graduated, with honors, in about 1964. Then he went to the Wharton School of Economics to graduate in 1968. The most significant period in a person's life, IMO, is from the start of high school, through graduation from college. Those are the most structured, intensive, and memorable period in the life of most people (who get a bachelor's degree). We love music from that period of time because it takes us back to our wild, wonderful years in school. After that life is a blur. That was my own experience, was that true for you also? So I think the period he is referring to that was so great was the decade of the 1960s. Don't you think?

 

As the ultimate narcissist, the greatest period of America was Donald's greatest period.

 

"...Due to behavior problems, Trump left the [Kew-Forest Grammar School] at age 13 and was enrolled in the New York Military Academy (NYMA), where he finished eighth grade and high school. In 1983, Fred told an interviewer that Donald "was a pretty rough fellow when he was small", and at least two people who resided nearby or attended his elementary school recall him as a bully, though others, including Trump himself, recall him as rambunctious. During his senior year, Trump participated in marching drills, wore a uniform, and attained the rank of captain. In 2015, he told a biographer that NYMA gave him "more training militarily than a lot of the guys that go into the military".

 

Trump was born [in 1946] and raised in New York City and received a bachelor's degree in economics from the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania in 1968. In 1971 [at the age of 25] he was given control of his father Fred Trump's real estate and construction firm..."

 

What did you accomplish by the age of 25?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump

Edited November 2, 2016 by Airbrush

[DrP]

I would say today is the greatest generation... You have the most freedom of speech, the least wars, less racism, more money/less unemployment, cheaper health care with implementation for the poor to get cover/insurance (or whatever you guys are slowly introducing). Better rights for women and children, better help for the poor. Better entertainment and tech.

 

The world has never been such a lovely place... even with the current wars, there are less than before. Women's rights are improving world over, rights for gays have improved and they are now seen as equals and have no issues. It's not perfect yet - we are working on it..... and could do without the kind of fearmongering that led to a UK brexit and Trump as president.

 

I have faith that we (mankind) will sort these problems out - even if we have to retard our progress with European devolution and the building of a fdumb wall around America.

 

So yeah - the "make America/Britain great" again rhetoric is just typical right wing propaganda, imo, to play upon your emotions and sense of nationalism.

Edited November 2, 2016 by DrP

[John Cuthber]

I would say today is the greatest generation..

I should damned well hope so- that should be what all the previous generations were working towards.

However there are aspects of the current generation that could learn lessons from past ones.

[Ten oz]

The population of the United States has literally doubled from the day Donald Trump was born through now. The internet did not exist, we did not have man made satelites in orbit, cigarettes were physician approved, and minorities legally dicriminated against and segregated. The country is a completely different place today. There is no glory to return to. The definition of progress is forward or onward. Why anyone accepts a definition of backward makes no sense . Repblicans often say the gov't should be ran my like a business. Successful businessed do not look backwards. Successful business are not focused of shrinking their base, moving away from technology, becoming less integrated, and change adverse.

 

Why are so many millions of people seduced by the promise of yesterday? It is the promise of tomorrow that has delivered time and time and time again!!!

[iNow]

Fetishizing a return to yesteryear is very much a race, gender, and class-specific phenomenon.

 

For some, former greatness was embodied by keeping negros in their place, women pregnant and in the kitchen and secretaries with asses ready to be fondled with impunity, and upper-middle class life achieved through a low effort, low hours, low education requirements job.

 

For others, yesteryear calls to mind memories of hangings, beatings, rapes, segregation, poverty, ostrcization, subjugation, squaller, ill-health, and a sense of lack and otherness that showed no signs of relenting and which was itself systematically bolstered, enforced, and codified by law, centers of power, employers, and others.

 

It was a time of more rigidly experienced us-and-them, and it's only when you were squarely within the "us" population that you could possibly have any proclivity or desire to return to that age. Fetishizing a return to yesteryear is very much a race, gender, and class-specific phenomenon.

Edited November 3, 2016 by iNow

[dimreepr]

For others, yesteryear calls to mind memories of hangings, beatings, rapes, segregation, poverty, ostrcization, subjugation, squaller, ill-health, and a sense of lack and otherness that showed shows no signs of relenting and which was is itself systematically bolstered, enforced, and codified by law, centers of power, employers, and others.

 

 

And yet we wonder why so many choose an, apparent, idiot like Trump.

Edited November 3, 2016 by dimreepr

[Airbrush]

 

 

And yet we wonder why so many choose an, apparent, idiot like Trump.

 

The answer is celebrity worship. People are gullible to a clever con artist. Just tell people what they want to hear and pretend you care, then they will follow you.

Edited November 3, 2016 by Airbrush

[dimreepr]

No, the answer is grinding poverty and a serious decline in education, for the average; not to mention a front row seat to witness the avarice and excesses of those we so often place our trust in.

 

His celebrity is just a means to an end.