Donald Trump

[Phi for All]

You're right Zapatos, I may be.

But you Americans let this happen, and bitching and complaining afterwards won't get you anywhere.

Normally I wouldn't care as its not my country, but we all know what a huge influence American politics and policies have on Canada.

 

The other thing I find interesting is that those same people jumping on me, like Phi and Ten oz ( don't recall if Acme shared their view ), were always advocating opening channels of communication with the Ayatollas of Iran, or Kim Jung In of Korea, or Saddam Hussein, etc. Yet they think D Trump simply cannot be reasoned with.

I think your scales of 'reasonableness' are slightly skewed.

 

May be? You should seriously get your reason checked if you think the women in those marches didn't vote. Jesus H Christ, you aren't a stupid man but this is such a stupid stance. I've changed my mind about relocating to Canada.

[Acme]

You're right Zapatos, I may be.

But you Americans let this happen, and bitching and complaining afterwards won't get you anywhere.

Normally I wouldn't care as its not my country, but we all know what a huge influence American politics and policies have on Canada.

...

LOL Peaceful protest is a constitutionally guaranteed right. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." We got grievances with little Donny and we fully intend to assemble and petition for redress. That's not only for ourselves, but you Canookians as well.

[MigL]

Is it a reasonable assumption to make that if 42% of eligible voters didn't vote, Phi, at least some of those would be women? I'm starting to think you wouldn't be welcome in Canada; too confrontational and not 'nice' enough.

 

And is Madonna's speech where she contemplates blowing up the White House also constitutionally protected Acme ?

And thanks for looking out for us Canuks, Acme, but maybe the best way would be to overhaul your political system.

Edited January 23, 2017 by MigL

[Acme]

...

And is Madonna's speech where she contemplates blowing up the White House also constitutionally protected Acme ?

Presumably if not, she will be prosecuted.

 

And thanks for looking out for us Canuks, Acme, but maybe the best way would be to overhaul your political system.

But but...you said bitching and complaining won't get us anywhere.

 

Hey I know! Canada should build a wall on the northern border and get donny john to pay for it.

[Phi for All]

Is it a reasonable assumption to make that if 42% of eligible voters didn't vote, Phi, at least some of those would be women? I'm starting to think you wouldn't be welcome in Canada; too confrontational and not 'nice' enough.

 

I can't figure out if you're just moving the goalposts again, or if you really believe the women's marches were made up of those who didn't vote. Either way, it seems to show that you and Trump agree about women and their behavior in general.

[Delta1212]

Is it a reasonable assumption to make that if 42% of eligible voters didn't vote, Phi, at least some of those would be women? I'm starting to think you wouldn't be welcome in Canada; too confrontational and not 'nice' enough.

 

And is Madonna's speech where she contemplates blowing up the White House also constitutionally protected Acme ?

And thanks for looking out for us Canuks, Acme, but maybe the best way would be to overhaul your political system.

Do you think that maybe, just perhaps, the people who felt motivated enough to go travel, mostly across state lines, to spend a day marching in order to voice their political opinion just maybe kinda sorta might be over-represented among the portion of the population that bothered to go to their local polling station on Election Day?

[John Cuthber]

Never mind what some singer said.
Shouldn't science (and the rest of us) be much more worried about about an administration that believes in "alternative facts"?

[Sensei]

Now, I've made it clear I dislike D Trump, but a few of the things he says do make sense...

All these women ( led by privileged celebrities who are used to getting their own way ) who marched in protest yesterday should, maybe, have gotten off their asses and voted. Those extra votes may have made a difference and we wouldn't be in this situation.

Maybe they should have cared BEFORE the election.

If they bothered to go to protest, I bet they were on voting also..

But USA has obsolete and ridiculous (since XIX century invention of telegraph) voting system from XVIII century when there was no fast communication system..

And even ~3 millions votes more didn't matter.. ?! I find it ridiculous..

Edited January 23, 2017 by Sensei

[swansont]

Assume anything you want Phi.

But as the voter turnout for this so important election was only about 58 % what would be your conclusion ?

EXACTLY !

More than 40% of American voters didn't give a damn !

And the people who were prevented from voting?

[Ten oz]

Never mind if there is any evidence ?????

Google the voter turnout for the election !

 

Then put your sanctimonious attitude on display.

 

At least the Brits had the common decency to blame themselves after the foolish Brexit vote.

Americans elected Trump, directly or by NOT voting, and are now refusing to take responsibility.

Voter turnout is never 100% of eligible voters. It would be get if it were but it never is. I think it is also a well known that Republicans work to keep town out low as possible by limiting the days of early voting, limiting polling locations, putting voting ID laws in place that complicate voter registration, and etc.. None of that has anything to do with whether or not the Women who participated in the March on Washington voted or not. That was your initial complaint, that somehow they should not be protesting because they didn't vote.

 

The facts are that if we are talking about votes, one person one vote, Hillary Clinton won 3 million more of them and did nearly 10 points better than Donald Trump amongst women. 3 million is greater than the population of the following individual states: Mississipi, Arkansas, Utah, Kansas, Neveda, New Mexico, Nebraska, West Virgina, Idaho, Hawaii, Maine, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Montana, Delware, South Dakota, Alaska, North Dakota, Vermont, District of Columbia, and Wyoming. 3 million is a lot of people. Trump lost the vote. He won because votes as a total number don't decide the election.

 

The Electoral College system is no more specific to the Constitution than is the First Admendment. People have a right to speak up whether or not you believe they voted.

And the people who were prevented from voting?

Typical conservative move, prevent things from happening and then complain they didn't happen.

You're right Zapatos, I may be.

But you Americans let this happen, and bitching and complaining afterwards won't get you anywhere.

Normally I wouldn't care as its not my country, but we all know what a huge influence American politics and policies have on Canada.

 

The other thing I find interesting is that those same people jumping on me, like Phi and Ten oz ( don't recall if Acme shared their view ), were always advocating opening channels of communication with the Ayatollas of Iran, or Kim Jung In of Korea, or Saddam Hussein, etc. Yet they think D Trump simply cannot be reasoned with.

I think your scales of 'reasonableness' are slightly skewed.

I don't recall ever specifically posting about the Ayatollahs of Iran or Kim Jung-un and Saddam Hussein was already dead when I joined this site. It appears you are just trying to create distractions at this point because you can't support your assertions about the women who participated in the March on Washington. Nothing I have ever posted about Iran, North Korea, or Iraq (have no idea what specific posts you are referring to) impacts the right those who protested have to protest.

[Phi for All]

Typical conservative move, prevent things from happening and then complain they didn't happen.

 

This works well with the uberwealth mentality. It helps maintain the illusion that creating the jobs is orders of magnitude more important than working the jobs.

[MigL]

OK, I'll shut up about it now.

Since you guys know best, I'll leave it up to you to resolve the situation.

After all, you' Americans are the ones who created this mess in the first place.

Good luck.

[DrmDoc]

Never mind what some singer said.

Shouldn't science (and the rest of us) be much more worried about about an administration that believes in "alternative facts"?

 

Much of his candidacy and subsequent election was based on "alternative facts". We shouldn't expect his administration to be any different.

[Arete]

I felt like I'd fallen through a wormhole to North Korea when Spicer came out lambasting the press for not fabricating data to show that Dear Leader had the greatest and best inauguration ever, and then Conway doubled down on it calling ridiculously obvious BS "alternative facts".

 

Not only is it baffling to see them bald faced lying about something so obviously demonstrated using empirical observation, but also about something which does not matter. Whether or not the turnout at his inauguration was the biggest ever is only consequential because Trump and his administration made it so. Stupid, easily disproven lies about how big and grand an event was are the kind of silly propaganda we laugh at North Korea and other tin pot dictatorships for. The fact that the Trump administration is acting like this from day one is embarrassing to watch.

 

But more scarily, what does it mean for situation where transparency from the government DOES matter? Threats to national security, budgetary matters, etc?

 

Also, wasn't a large part of the problem with Clinton was that she was a "liar"? Not that I imagine most Trump supporters feel like it, but if that was a large part of their reasoning for voting for him, there might be a little bit of face to egg happening right now...

[DrmDoc]

I felt like I'd fallen through a wormhole to North Korea when Spicer came out lambasting the press for not fabricating data to show that Dear Leader had the greatest and best inauguration ever, and then Conway doubled down on it calling ridiculously obvious BS "alternative facts".

 

Not only is it baffling to see them bald faced lying about something so obviously demonstrated using empirical observation, but also about something which does not matter. Whether or not the turnout at his inauguration was the biggest ever is only consequential because Trump and his administration made it so. Stupid, easily disproven lies about how big and grand an event was are the kind of silly propaganda we laugh at North Korea and other tin pot dictatorships for. The fact that the Trump administration is acting like this from day one is embarrassing to watch.

 

But more scarily, what does it mean for situation where transparency from the government DOES matter? Threats to national security, budgetary matters, etc?

 

Also, wasn't a large part of the problem with Clinton was that she was a "liar"? Not that I imagine most Trump supporters feel like it, but if that was a large part of their reasoning for voting for him, there might be a little bit of face to egg happening right now...

 

Judging by debates I've engaged and observed here, I don't think Trump supporters particularly care about truth.

[Phi for All]

Also, wasn't a large part of the problem with Clinton was that she was a "liar"? Not that I imagine most Trump supporters feel like it, but if that was a large part of their reasoning for voting for him, there might be a little bit of face to egg happening right now...

 

I remember picking my jaw up the first time I heard a Trump supporter calling Hillary a liar. When I mentioned the three things Trump had already lied about that particular morning, it was dismissed as "he was given the wrong information". Which was another lie (and some real head-in-the-sand thinking), because Trump doubled down on all three later that day.

 

I don't think Trump supporters care about their face-to-egg ratios. They consider fraud and lies to be the mark of a savvy businessman, grabbing pussy to be the mark of a real man, and white people to be deserving of anything they can get their hands on.

[imatfaal]

War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. Truth is Lies.

 

How many fingers am I holding up, Winston?

[DrmDoc]

It seems that our current administration is steering a course predicted 40 years ago by lines in a long-running British science fiction series, Doctor Who. According to the Huffington Post, the lines were "You know, the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They don’t alter their views to fit the facts. They alter the facts to fit the views." How remarkably apt.

Edited January 23, 2017 by DrmDoc

[Ten oz]

I don't think Trump supporters care about their face-to-egg ratios. They consider fraud and lies to be the mark of a savvy businessman, grabbing pussy to be the mark of a real man, and white people to be deserving of anything they can get their hands on.

We have seen it here in the forum from those who supported Trump. An easy example is tar, he spent the primary talking about pagmatism, acknowledging Trump was racist, denying he himself (tar) was a racist, and claiming to support candidates like Kasich and even Sanders. Come crunch time he threw in with Trump. In retrospect Trump's daily lies only seem to echo the daily lies his supporters tell. Birds of a feather! Ultimately they voted for the liar because they all felt that they were in on the lie.

Edited January 23, 2017 by Ten oz

[Phi for All]

We have seen it here in the forum from those who supported Trump. An easy example is tar, he spent the primary talking about pagmatism, acknowledging Trump was racist, denying he himself (tar) was a racist, and claiming to support candidates like Kasich and even Sanders. Come crunch time he threw in with Trump. In retrospect Trump's daily lies only seem to echo the daily lies his supporters tell. Birds of a feather! Ultimately they voted for the liar because they all felt that they were in on the lie.

 

tar has daughters, iirc. How does an American man look himself in the mirror when his answer to "What should your daughter do if her boss grabs her by the pussy?" is "She should look for another job" or "Her boss is a job creator, so he's more important than a mere worker". This idea that the boss can do what he likes is the bane of modern America, and many workers have ended up doing morally questionable things (*cough* Wells Fargo *cough*) just to keep a job.

 

And of course we have MigL, who doesn't care either way because he's Canadian, but certainly enjoys it when women are being demonized. There's a well-ground axe in his closet. And now we see him identifying with a Trumpian ideal of vacuous, stupid women who don't have time to vote but find time to march.

 

Trump is a toxic magnet, bringing out the worst in people who don't see the dangers of his tarnished populism.

[ecoli]

Not sure what tar would say, but 53% of white women were apparently able to overlook these comments. Anecdotally, women for Trump tend to value traditional gender roles and see Trump as an alpha male (supported a bit by the polling data). Populism is fine ear candy for those who believe they will benefit.

[Delta1212]

Not sure what tar would say, but 53% of white women were apparently able to overlook these comments. Anecdotally, women for Trump tend to value traditional gender roles and see Trump as an alpha male (supported a bit by the polling data). Populism is fine ear candy for those who believe they will benefit.

And not that anecdotes are reliable indicators of broad trends, but that general conclusion jives with my personal experience on the subject, as well.

Edited January 24, 2017 by Delta1212

[CharonY]

Not sure what tar would say, but 53% of white women were apparently able to overlook these comments. Anecdotally, women for Trump tend to value traditional gender roles and see Trump as an alpha male (supported a bit by the polling data). Populism is fine ear candy for those who believe they will benefit.

 

Specifically, Trump really only won the white women with no college degree vote (by a massive margin 27%). Clinton, on the other hand won the white women's vote with college degree (again, by ~ 7%). In all cases, minorities (college degree or not) overwhelmingly voted Clinton , with the margin being larger actually without college degrees (65% and 59%, respectively).

 

Ethnicity is probably pretty easy to explain, considering the tone of the campaign, but it also appears that education mellows out the poppulist appeal.

Edited January 24, 2017 by CharonY

[Ten oz]

 

tar has daughters, iirc. How does an American man look himself in the mirror when his answer to "What should your daughter do if her boss grabs her by the pussy?" is "She should look for another job" or "Her boss is a job creator, so he's more important than a mere worker". This idea that the boss can do what he likes is the bane of modern America, and many workers have ended up doing morally questionable things (*cough* Wells Fargo *cough*) just to keep a job.

 

And of course we have MigL, who doesn't care either way because he's Canadian, but certainly enjoys it when women are being demonized. There's a well-ground axe in his closet. And now we see him identifying with a Trumpian ideal of vacuous, stupid women who don't have time to vote but find time to march.

 

Trump is a toxic magnet, bringing out the worst in people who don't see the dangers of his tarnished populism.

I don't see this as being something Trump has brought. Lets not forget that the Republican Party tried to make Sarah Palin Vice President 8yrs ago. Not forget the Tea Party rallies of 09' and 10' where sign of President Obama depicted as a monkey were numerous. 2016's chants of "lock her up" were terrible yet not surprising coming from the same group of people that claimed President Obama was a secret Muslim. The difference with Trump is that he didn't ask them to tone it down. McCain corrected the record when they called President Obama a Muslim, Romney acknowledge that President Obama was an American citizen, but Trump was willing to wade into the filth. To me calling Trump a magnet excuse conservatives, lets them off the hook. Implies they have been fooled or mislead and I don't believe that is the case. Trump is a reflection of the politics they have been promoting. People like tar are not taken in by Trump, haven't been tricked, this is who they are and I hope progressive learn that. It is conservatives broadly and not merely Trump that is the problem.

[Phi for All]

I don't see this as being something Trump has brought. Lets not forget that the Republican Party tried to make Sarah Palin Vice President 8yrs ago. Not forget the Tea Party rallies of 09' and 10' where sign of President Obama depicted as a monkey were numerous. 2016's chants of "lock her up" were terrible yet not surprising coming from the same group of people that claimed President Obama was a secret Muslim. The difference with Trump is that he didn't ask them to tone it down. McCain corrected the record when they called President Obama a Muslim, Romney acknowledge that President Obama was an American citizen, but Trump was willing to wade into the filth. To me calling Trump a magnet excuse conservatives, lets them off the hook. Implies they have been fooled or mislead and I don't believe that is the case. Trump is a reflection of the politics they have been promoting. People like tar are not taken in by Trump, haven't been tricked, this is who they are and I hope progressive learn that. It is conservatives broadly and not merely Trump that is the problem.

 

A hate magnet doesn't create the hate, so that's not an excuse if he draws yours out of you. I don't think he lets anyone off the hook. Worse, it seems like once his hooks are in you, he pulls you down to his depth in the muck.

 

I think McCain and Ryan could have stopped all this with a firm stance, even after the nomination. I seriously can't look at either of them now. I used to respect McCain quite a bit. Are they all now figuring out how to cozy up to Putin? How to make their bases think Russia has secretly been our friend all along? I guess they figure these people voted for Trump, so maybe they'll believe just about anything.