Our universe exists inside a black hole?

[Greencanon]

I heard about a theory that our universe may exist inside a black hole, and I was wondering if someone could help explain this to me. My teacher didn't say much about it but just from thinking I can gather that since a supermassive black hole's immense gravity can distort spacetime, so an entire universe could fit inside. But what I don't get is how a universe could possibly get INSIDE the black hole in the first place. Does the black hole condense enought matter into so small of a space that when the gravity of the black hole ceases to act on the matter, it expands, giving us the Big Bang? Just need an explanation because this has really been bothering me.

[Mordred]

Probably does, several models have suggested universe in a BH but those are not particularly well supported.

 

For one thing you would need a parent universe, we have no evidence a multiverse exists. The BB model doesn't define how the universe started. It only describes how the universe evolves from 10^-43 seconds forward.

 

Also we don't know if the universe is finite or infinite. A universe inside is... finite.

 

It's also incredibly (but not impossible) to model a homogeneous and isotropic universe inside a BH.

 

For example Google Poplowskii universe inside a white hole.

 

He had to employ some interesting spin and torsion tricks to do so.

 

Reason being blackholes typically rotate, so that would imply a rotating universe... measurements don't match a rotating universe a rotating universe is inherently inhomogeneous and anisotropic. Our measurement show a homogeneous and isotropic universe.

[Phi for All]

To me, it's still speculation about what happened before the Big Bang, and is therefore just educated guesswork. It seems more like an explanation of how the matter from the entire universe got compressed down to particle size.

[Mordred]

It's probably a misinterpreted singularity condition prior to 10-43 seconds. In this case the singularity condition is simply where our understanding of the physics of that time are inadequate and we get answers that make no sense.

[Phi for All]

It's probably a misinterpreted singularity condition prior to 10-43 seconds. In this case the singularity condition is simply where our understanding of the physics of that time are inadequate and we get answers that make no sense.

 

That's why it seems rather pointless to guess about it. We can't trust it if it happened prior to the time we do understand, where the physics can be determined.

[Cosvis1]

I also think that it is possible that the universe was, and is a black hole, right from the beginning of time. At the beginning of time there existed time, space and energy, possibly only dark energy which started to evolve into the beautiful universe that we experience at the moment. Science tells us that energy can not be created or destroyed, in other words, all energy or dark energy must have existed from eternity or at least, from the beginning of time. Science also tells us that nothing can travel faster than the speed of light, thus, each energy particle or quantum particle, can not travel faster than the speed of light; it can not escape a black hole.

The problem is that scientists firmly believe today, that the universe is expanding faster and faster as time goes on. However, if the universe is a black hole, it would have a constant temperature, or a gravitational constant, which it has. Thus, light traveling through this gravitational constant its gravitational red shift, would increase according to the time it has travelled through this gravitational constant. Thus, the longer the light has travelled through space, its gravitational redshift has increased. Thus light coming from distant galaxies that has a redshift greater than the speed of light, could be due to the time it has travelled through the universe, rather than due to an expansion of the universe. A test whether the universe is expanding or not, would be if its universal back ground microwave radiation is decreasing or not. If the universe is expanding its universal back ground microwave radiation would constantly be decreasing because scientists hold that it is the remnant of the Big Bang.

These are just some of my ideas on the subject. I hope you find them worthwhile to consider.

Your Cosvis.

[Strange]

Science tells us that energy can not be created or destroyed

 

Actually, in GR things aren't that simple.

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/GR/energy_gr.html

http://www.preposterousuniverse.com/blog/2010/02/22/energy-is-not-conserved/

 

each energy particle or quantum particle, can not travel faster than the speed of light; it can not escape a black hole.

 

The reason that nothing can escape a black hole is not because of the speed of light, it is more that space-time is so curved that there are not paths that go in the direction "out" (think lobster pot as an analogy).

 

The problem is that scientists firmly believe today, that the universe is expanding faster and faster as time goes on.

 

That seems to be what the evidence shows (which was a surprise, people generally expected it to be slowing, I think).

 

However, if the universe is a black hole, it would have a constant temperature, or a gravitational constant, which it has. Thus, light traveling through this gravitational constant its gravitational red shift, would increase according to the time it has travelled through this gravitational constant. Thus, the longer the light has travelled through space, its gravitational redshift has increased.

 

I'm not sure that works. The time isn't important, just the difference in gravitational potential between source and receiver.

 

Note that both black holes and the big bang model are based on the predictions of GR.

 

Thus light coming from distant galaxies that has a redshift greater than the speed of light, could be due to the time it has travelled through the universe, rather than due to an expansion of the universe.

 

Before the big bang model was accepted, there were many attempts to explain red-shift due to the time it had travelled. None really worked (and none fitted with the other evidence).

 

A test whether the universe is expanding or not, would be if its universal back ground microwave radiation is decreasing or not. If the universe is expanding its universal back ground microwave radiation would constantly be decreasing because scientists hold that it is the remnant of the Big Bang.

 

Unfortunately, this is impossible to test directly. However, the temperature is exactly that predicted by the big bang model.

And it is not clear how your idea would explain the CMB at all (which was the real clincher for the big bang theory).

 

However, if the universe were in or created by a black hole, what happens when black holes collide!? (As we now know they do.)

[Cosvis1]

Thank you for your reply. If the universe is a black hole it would contain all energies, forces and matter, nothing would exist out side of it. The MBR ( microwave background radiation) would be its temperature depending on its quantity of energy including all its dark energy, matter and anti matter, and depending also on its ( universe's) radius. It (the universe) would not be able to expand because a black hole can only expand by an increase of energy or matter, which has to come from outside the black hole or outside the universe. If there exist nothing outside the universe, the radius and thus its temperature, or its MBR, is constant. According to the Big Bang theory, the universe has expanded and is continue to expand from its singularity. The MBR is its remnant from its singularity or the beginning of its expansion about 13 billion years ago. If the universe is still expanding according to the Big Bang theory, than its MBR should also continue to decrease. The MBR was first discovered in 1965, about 50 years ago, so its decrease, if it is decreasing, may be able to be measured by now.

Yours Cosvis1

[Mordred]

No the NBR is not decreasing its still all around us today just a lower temperature. Secondly there is no evidence as to a multiverse. Which is a requirement of universe inside a BH. Thirdly we don't know if this universe is infinite or finite.a universe inside a BH is inherently finite.

Fourthly blackholes typically rotate, that rotation would impart rotation onto our universe. No matter how slow a rotation is this implies a center and preferred direction inhomogeneous and anisotropic. Measurements show our universe as homogeneous and isotropic. No preferred location( center) or direction.

 

5th argument blackholes don't absorb mass/energy at consistent rates. If we were inside a BH this would cause a non uniform distribution of energy/mass. Sorry once again we see no signs of this.

 

6th point the singularity of the BB is simply a point in time where the mathematics breaks down. (The numbers we get cease to make sense prior to 10^-43 seconds. However this period is of unknown size. We only know the portion of causality with our observable universe.

[Cosvis1]

I would also like to make a comment on the recent and fascinating discovery of the Einstein gravitational waves which could also help to explain why the universe could be a black hole. I wonder if it is possible that the proof of the existence of the gravitational waves, could also be proof of the existence of dark energy? I venture to say this because ordinary light or light energy consists of photons which are made up of virtual particles of energy or a virtual quantum particle times its frequency. The quantum particle has a quantity of energy of a Planck constant, it moves at the speed of light and it is affected by gravity as Einstein predicted, a light passing a gravitational force is gravitationally affected. My question is: could it be that dark energy consists primarily of basic virtual quantum particles of energy that consist of a virtual gravitational wave, constantly moving at the speed of light? Thus, the proof of the existence of gravitational waves could also indicate the existence of dark energy. If dark energy is the basic form of energy of the universe, and the universe is a black hole, the question is how basically is its dark energy converted to light energy? The possible answer could be quantum radiation or Hawking radiation which would be most prominent at its event horizon. When energy or better, dark energy is transformed into matter and anti-matter at the event horizon of the universe, the anti- matter stays at the event horizon and the matter escape into the universe.

Yours Cosvis1

[Mordred]

The gravitational waves is not proof that we are inside a BH. Neither does it explain dark energy. First off dark energy has a uniform distribution the force of gravity from a mass falls off radially from that mass.

 

This would mean dark energy would need to follow the same distribution curve. It doesn't.

 

In all honesty you would be better off reading the following material.

 

Misconceptions (Useful articles to answer various Cosmology Misconceptions)

 

http://www.phinds.com/balloonanalogy/: A thorough write up on the balloon analogy used to describe expansion

http://tangentspace.info/docs/horizon.pdf:Inflation and the Cosmological Horizon by Brian Powell

http://arxiv.org/abs/1304.4446:"What we have leaned from Observational Cosmology." -A handy write up on observational cosmology in accordance with the LambdaCDM model.

http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0310808:"Expanding Confusion: common misconceptions of cosmological horizons and the superluminal expansion of the Universe" Lineweaver and Davies

http://www.mso.anu.edu.au/~charley/papers/LineweaverDavisSciAm.pdf:"Misconceptions about the Big bang" also Lineweaver and Davies

http://arxiv.org/abs/1002.3966"why the prejudice against a constant"

http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0508052"In an expanding universe, what doesn't expand? Richard H. Price, Joseph D. Romano

http://arxiv.org/abs/1301.0219What's in a Name: History and Meanings of the Term "Big Bang" Helge Kragh

http://arxiv.org/pdf/0906.1442v1.pdfIs it possible to see the infinite future of the Universe when falling into a black hole?