space and time mind f***?

[TheThing]

i dont know much about science, but i remember reading something about atoms vibrating, i read that if atoms vibrate slower then the speed of light then they become physical and if they vibrate faster then light then they become un-physical
is this true?i thought nothing can move faster then light.
then i really thought about it and ran into a problem i cant figure out, and google doesnt have the answers either

its hard for me to explain but here goes,

okay,so imagine the earth and our sun, we know that light does infact take time to travel from the sun to earth.(not sure exactly how long, buts thats not important right now) so now imagine that your traveling at the speed of light towards the sun,lets just say it takes you 3 hours to travel to the sun from earth (3 hours is not correct but lets just roll with it for now)

now, imagine that you are so big that the earth and sun are the size of marbles compared to you.now, if you put your hand right above the sun and swing your arm fast towards the earth,you would hit the earth in like 1 sec, but by doing this, your hand would be moving faster then the speed of light from the perspective of a normal sized human, but it would seem like your moving faster then light from your perspective.how the fk does this work?

[ajb]

is this true?i thought nothing can move faster then light.[/size]

 

No material object can move at or faster than the speed of light.

 

 

how the fk does this work?

There are no true rigid bodies. Just imagine holding a rod instead of your arm (maybe easier to imagine). As you move it a shockwave is sent through the rod 'telling' the next part of the rod to move. This shockwave can travel at best at the speed of light. The rod would bend and not move faster than light. In practice the rod would break.

 

You can do something similar with a laser beam and create a dot, say on the surface of the Moon. You can move the source quickly through an angle and make the dot on the moon travel faster than light! But no photon has moved faster than light and so no real problem with relativity.

[TheThing]

No material object can move at or faster than the speed of light.

 

 

 

There are no true rigid bodies. Just imagine holding a rod instead of your arm (maybe easier to imagine). As you move it a shockwave is sent through the rod 'telling' the next part of the rod to move. This shockwave can travel at best at the speed of light. The rod would bend and not move faster than light. In practice the rod would break.

 

You can do something similar with a laser beam and create a dot, say on the surface of the Moon. You can move the source quickly through an angle and make the dot on the moon travel faster than light! But no photon has moved faster than light and so no real problem with relativity.

ah i finally found info about this subject,it turns out einstein already explained this.i never understood what his theory of reletivity was acually talking about, until now

 

turns out that time slows down when moving at high speeds,i now understand thats how space-time compisates for such matters.i feel like a scientist now o.0

 

oh,and the rod you swing will not bend or break time will simply slow down for that rod so that the speed of light stays true for that object

Edited February 14, 2016 by TheThing

[Strange]

 

now, imagine that you are so big that the earth and sun are the size of marbles compared to you.now, if you put your hand right above the sun and swing your arm fast towards the earth,you would hit the earth in like 1 sec

 

But you wouldn't be able to move your arm this fast. Even if it was a tiny distance for you, you would still be limited to the speed of light.

[ajb]

turns out that time slows down when moving at high speeds,

When compared to the time measured by some observer considered to be at rest. As far as a moving observer is concerned nothing happens to his clock.

 

Of course, this has to be the case as we do not have a notion of absolute rest. Your clock ticks away just as it always has done even though there are plenty of objects moving at high velocity relative to you.

[TheThing]

 

But you wouldn't be able to move your arm this fast. Even if it was a tiny distance for you, you would still be limited to the speed of light.

acually you can, i absolutly know exactly how this works now, i can promise you that there will be no force that prevents you from swinging fast.

how do i know this? well einstein's theory of revativity has been prooven,i know its hard to grasp but if you dont understand exactly what this theory is saying then plse youtube revatity esplained.even if you think you know,please revisit this subject cause i am 100% sure that you dont fully understand this.(not trying to be a dick sorry )

the videos will break it down so that anyone can understand the theory

Edited February 14, 2016 by TheThing

[Strange]

acually you can, i absolutly know exactly how this works now, i can promise you that there will be no force that prevents you from swinging fast.

 

I am afraid you ar wrong. Nothing can travel faster than the speed of light. It takes about 8 minutes for light to travel from the Sun to the Earth. So any object must take longer than that, whether that is a spaceship or a giant arm.

[ajb]

The problem of perfectly rigid bodies still applies here. You just cannot use a swinging rod or your arm to get faster than light motion of the tip of the pole or your fist.

[TheThing]

 

I am afraid you ar wrong. Nothing can travel faster than the speed of light. It takes about 8 minutes for light to travel from the Sun to the Earth. So any object must take longer than that, whether that is a spaceship or a giant arm.

omg man,i am not wrong

i am 100% sure i am correct

you do not understand reletivity

plse,do some reaserch before you say im wrong,

you have no clue what your talking about

 

if you think i am wrong,i can proove to you that i am right and that your wrong

there is sceince backing this up man

unless your gonna say all the scienctist in the world are wrong

plse go do some research

 

here i have found a video that explains this subject, if you still dont understand,then i dont know what to tell you man

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttZCKAMpcAo

Edited February 14, 2016 by TheThing

[ajb]

oh,and the rod you swing will not bend or break time will simply slow down for that rod so that the speed of light stays true for that object

As measured by?

[Mordred]

The thing do you truly understand the rigid rod conjecture?

 

Let's start at the beginning. Man a swings a rod one light year in length. It will take one light year before the opposite end moves in response.

 

If you say otherwise it is you that doesn't understand relativity

The problem of perfectly rigid bodies still applies here. You just cannot use a swinging rod or your arm to get faster than light motion of the tip of the pole or your fist.

This statement is correct

Edited February 14, 2016 by Mordred

[TheThing]

As measured by?

dang,i cant belive the people on here replying has no clue about any real science

i figured this would be a good source for information,but now it seems you all dont have a lick of sense

you ask how do i measure

well,the fact is that i dont have to,someone has already explained this,this has been prooven mathaticly over and over and over agian

i dont know if you ever heard of albert einstein, but he solved this puzzle a long time ago

i am done with this,i refuse to explain something that has been prooven by hundreds of scientist already

if you cant do your own research yourself then i feel sorry for you

i literally answerd my own question within 20 mins, why cant you go and find out for yourself?

wish the best of luck to you

[Mordred]

Now why is this the case?

 

No matter how rigid the rod is the laws of conservation of angular momentum and rate of exchange of interactions still apply

 

The rod is made up of individuals particles. Momentum must be exchanged via particle to particle interactions. This takes times. Time dependant upon the medium the influence is acting through....

 

The one light year length rod will take a minimal light year to respond to change in a perfect medium (which doesn't exist, so it will take longer)

dang,i cant belive the people on here replying has no clue about any real science

i figured this would be a good source for information,but now it seems you all dont have a lick of sense

you ask how do i measure

well,the fact is that i dont have to,someone has already explained this,this has been prooven mathaticly over and over and over agian

i dont know if you ever heard of albert einstein, but he solved this puzzle a long time ago

i am done with this,i refuse to explain something that has been prooven by hundreds of scientist already

if you cant do your own research yourself then i feel sorry for you

i literally answerd my own question within 20 mins, why cant you go and find out for yourself?

wish the best of luck to you

It is you that has no clue learn the math behind relativity. Instead of resorting to insults on a member who has numerous peer reviewed papers on arxiv.

 

!

Moderator Note

point being the rigid rod conjecture is a fundamental lesson on relativity, if you wish to provide details to the contrary. You will need to present the math not insults to respected forum members simply because they don't agree with you

PS BOTH Ajb and I can move or lock this thread. So show the math Edited February 14, 2016 by Mordred

[ajb]

you ask how do i measure

I did not as how you would measure, but just with respect to what observer. As far as the end of your fist or the end of the pole is concerned nothing special happens with respect to time. Time dilation effects only come into play when comparing durations as measured by different observers.

 

i dont know if you ever heard of albert einstein, but he solved this puzzle a long time ago

Yes, and this and similar problems lead to the realisation that you cannot have true rigid bodies in relativity. Another example is simply take your long pole that stretched from the Earth, to say the Moon and then 'poke' the astronaut at the other end. Can you communicate instantly in this way? The answer is no as the pressure wave travels along the pole at the speed of sound in that material which is far less than the speed of light. In the most ideal system you could think of the speed of sound could be the speed of light, but no more. Meaning that there are no true rigid bodies, not even idealised ones.

 

if you cant do your own research yourself then i feel sorry for you

i literally answerd my own question within 20 mins, why cant you go and find out for yourself?

wish the best of luck to you

I am very confused. Why did you post anything here if you are going to have such a poor attitude?

 

 

No matter how rigid the rod is the laws of conservation of angular momentum and rate of exchange of interactions still apply

A simpler question to analyse could be that of a relativistic bob that is being swung around. We can assume the string is infinitely thin etc and that the mass of the bob is point-like. What is the maximum angular velocity possible?

 

(Wikipedia even answer this one!)

[TheThing]

The thing do you truly understand the rigid rod conjecture?

 

Let's start at the beginning. Man a swings a rod one light year in length. It will take one light year before the opposite end moves in response.

 

If you say otherwise it is you that doesn't understand relativity

 

This statement is correct

omg none of you understand

let me crush your mentality right quick

there is something called time Dilation

this is when time adjust itself to your perspective

this is what science means when they say time and space are relitive to eachother(if you do not agree with this,then please go to google and start googling to proove me wrong)

ever herd how science says time will slow down the faster you move?

that is called time dilation

ever hear science say that you can time travel if you go faster then the speed of light?

that is time dilation

now, if you grew so big that the earth and sun and earth is the size of marbles to you

and you swat your hand from the sun to the earth,to you, it took less then a second for your hand to reach the earth

so there for, from your perspective only,your hand did not move faster then the speed of light

but if a normal sized human watches this happen,he would see your hand slowly make its way from the sun to earth

to the small human it would take so long for your hand to reach earth,but to you it only took a split second

see how that works?its called relativity and time dilation

i do not have to proove this to any of you because all this has already been prooven and i feel bad for you if your to cocky to go and learn this for yourself,you should really not be here answering questions when you dont understand what your talking about

[Mordred]

A simpler question to analyse could be that of a relativistic bob that is being swung around. We can assume the string is infinitely thin etc and that the mass of the bob is point-like. What is the maximum angular velocity possible?

 

(Wikipedia even answer this one!)

Good point

[TheThing]

I did not as how you would measure, but just with respect to what observer. As far as the end of your fist or the end of the pole is concerned nothing special happens with respect to time. Time dilation effects only come into play when comparing durations as measured by different observers.

 

 

Yes, and this and similar problems lead to the realisation that you cannot have true rigid bodies in relativity. Another example is simply take your long pole that stretched from the Earth, to say the Moon and then 'poke' the astronaut at the other end. Can you communicate instantly in this way? The answer is no as the pressure wave travels along the pole at the speed of sound in that material which is far less than the speed of light. In the most ideal system you could think of the speed of sound could be the speed of light, but no more. Meaning that there are no true rigid bodies, not even idealised ones.

 

 

I am very confused. Why did you post anything here if you are going to have such a poor attitude?

 

 

 

A simpler question to analyse could be that of a relativistic bob that is being swung around. We can assume the string is infinitely thin etc and that the mass of the bob is point-like. What is the maximum angular velocity possible?

 

(Wikipedia even answer this one!)

i dont like it when people say that i am wrong when i know for a fact that its them thats wrong

especially when they refuse to listen to reason,that is the cause of my attitude

[Mordred]

omg none of you understand

let me crush your mentality right quick

there is something called time Dilation

this is when time adjust itself to your perspective

this is what science means when they say time and space are relitive to eachother(if you do not agree with this,then please go to google and start googling to proove me wrong)

ever herd how science says time will slow down the faster you move?

that is called time dilation

ever hear science say that you can time travel if you go faster then the speed of light?

that is time dilation

now, if you grew so big that the earth and sun and earth is the size of marbles to you

and you swat your hand from the sun to the earth,to you, it took less then a second for your hand to reach the earth

so there for, from your perspective only,your hand did not move faster then the speed of light

but if a normal sized human watches this happen,he would see your hand slowly make its way from the sun to earth

to the small human it would take so long for your hand to reach earth,but to you it only took a split second

see how that works?its called relativity and time dilation

i do not have to proove this to any of you because all this has already been prooven and i feel bad for you if your to cocky to go and learn this for yourself,you should really not be here answering questions when you dont understand what your talking about

Present the math not your screaming attitude. I happen to have a few degrees in physics. These degrees include relativity as a first year lesson.

[studiot]

 

ajb

 

You can do something similar with a laser beam and create a dot, say on the surface of the Moon. You can move the source quickly through an angle and make the dot on the moon travel faster than light! But no photon has moved faster than light and so no real problem with relativity.

 

I never really thought about that, thank you. +1

[TheThing]

Present the math not your screaming attitude. I happen to have a few degrees in physics. These degrees include relativity as a first year lesson.

i think your full of yourself,you have no degree

you say present math?i have something even better

how about this,the satilites that are in space right now,orbiting the earth at high speeds,they use reletivity theory in order to make you gps work

or go and google this test where scietist had 4 atomic clocks,they put 2 clocks on a plane then flew around the world 2 times,first in one direction then the second in another direction

they left 2 clocks stationary on earth,guess what happend when they collected all 4 clocks?the 2 on the plane were de-synced due to time dilation and reletivity

Edited February 14, 2016 by TheThing

[Mordred]

That part of the thread was great. Someone presenting we are all wrong with zero zip mathematical detail. Well let's just say it irritated me lol.

[TheThing]

i think your full of yourself,you have no degree

you say present math?i have something even better

how about this,the satilites that are in space right now,orbiting the earth at high speeds,they use reletivity theory in order to make you gps work

or go and google this test where scietist had 4 atomic clocks,they put 2 clocks on a plane then flew around the world 2 times,first in one direction then the second in another direction

they left 2 clocks stationary on earth,guess what happend when they collected all 4 clocks?the 2 on the plane were de-synced due to time dilation and reletivity

http://www.highexistence.com/einsteins-theory-of-relativity/

 

here is a video prooving everything im saying is true,if u dont undertsand after watching the vid,then plse reframe from saying im wrong

[ajb]

there is something called time Dilation

We are all aware of time dilation.

 

this is when time adjust itself to your perspective

I am not sure exactly what you mean by this. Time dilation occurs when different observers compare durations of events.

 

this is what science means when they say time and space are relitive to eachother(if you do not agree with this,then please go to google and start googling to proove me wrong)

Not really relative to each other. The point is that in general, different inertial observers will not agree on lengths and durations.

 

 

ever herd how science says time will slow down the faster you move?

that is called time dilation

 

Now you need to be careful. Once again, time dilation only 'occurs' when different observers compare their measurements of durations.

 

So, your statement 'time will slow down the faster you move' is a bit ambiguous. So, as far as you are concerned nothing happens to your own clock. You only notice anything odd when you compare your clock with another observer who is not at rest with respect to you.

 

ever hear science say that you can time travel if you go faster then the speed of light?

that is time dilation

That is not time dilation as we usually understand it. It is however true that if some body were have a velocity greater than the speed of light as measured by some inertial observer, then one can always fine an inertial frame of reference for which the body is moving backwards in time.

 

now, if you grew so big that the earth and sun and earth is the size of marbles to you

and you swat your hand from the sun to the earth,to you, it took less then a second for your hand to reach the earth

We think that that this is impossible, due to our arguments about rigid bodies, or indeed the maximum angular velocity of any 'small element' of your hand. You cannot measure any material body to move at the speed of light of greater.

 

so there for, from your perspective only,your hand did not move faster then the speed of light

Meaning that if you time a photon from the Sun to the Earth that is released at exactly the same time as you start to rotate your long arm, the photon reaches the earth first?

 

This is what we expect and would be quite consistent with physics, but this is not consistent with your one second to swat.

 

but if a normal sized human watches this happen,he would see your hand slowly make its way from the sun to earth

to the small human it would take so long for your hand to reach earth,but to you it only took a split second

The person on Earth will indeed see that no part of your arm moved faster than the speed of light. We agree.

 

see how that works?its called relativity and time dilation

I think you have not solved the problem. Are you claiming that the large you will see your fist (say) moving at the speed of light or faster?

 

i do not have to proove this to any of you because all this has already been prooven and i feel bad for you if your to cocky to go and learn this for yourself,you should really not be here answering questions when you dont understand what your talking about

You do not have to prove anything, but I am not convinced your arguments quite solve the problem.

 

i dont like it when people say that i am wrong when i know for a fact that its them thats wrong

especially when they refuse to listen to reason,that is the cause of my attitude

Right back at you!

Edited February 14, 2016 by ajb

[TheThing]

That part of the thread was great. Someone presenting we are all wrong with zero zip mathematical detail. Well let's just say it irritated me lol.

you a idiot kid,you know nothing,i just gave you everything you need to know

im not a fkin math teacher,i cant sit here and spit equasions,but i can fkin send you links that exsplains exactly what im saying,and the links prove it for me,i shouldnt have to come up with any type of math,your just a idiot, if you had a working brain you would of been understood what i said.

but let me guess,you still think your right?and every other physics expert is wrong?even albert is wrong too huh?someone get this guy a nobel prize but first put a helmet on him before he walks up the stairs to the stage, he might trip and hurt himself

[Mordred]

Do you honestly believe we don't understand how gps works with relativity?

 

Come on man calm down, formulate your thoughts and present them in a more appropriate manner.

 

First let's start with the rigid rod. Observation and theoretical data within relativity shows us that any propogation of information exchange or interaction is limitted by c . This including the recent gravity wave detection.

 

It's also a key aspect in baryon acvoustic oscillations on CMB anisotropy.

 

Now if you wish to counter this statement you are free to do so via the math