space and time mind f***?

[TheThing]

We are all aware of time dilation.

 

 

I am not sure exactly what you mean by this. Time dilation occurs when different observers compare durations of events.

 

 

Not really relative to each other. The point is that in general, different inertial observers will not agree on lengths and durations.

 

 

 

 

Now you need to be careful. Once again, time dilation only 'occurs' when different observers compare their measurements of durations.

 

So, your statement 'time will slow down the faster you move' is a bit ambiguous. So, as far as you are concerned nothing happens to your own clock. You only notice anything odd when you compare your clock with another observer who is not at rest with respect to you.

 

 

That is not time dilation as we usually understand it. It is however true that if some body were have a velocity greater than the speed of light as measured by some inertial observer, then one can always fine an inertial frame of reference for which the body is moving backwards in time.

 

 

We think that that this is impossible, due to our arguments about rigid bodies, or indeed the maximum angular velocity of any 'small element' of your hand. You cannot measure any material body to move at the speed of light of greater.

 

 

Meaning that if you time a photon from the Sun to the Earth that is released at exactly the same time as you start to rotate your long arm, the photon reaches the earth first?

 

This is what we expect and would be quite consistent with physics, but this is not consistent with your one second to swat.

 

 

The person on Earth will indeed see that no part of your arm moved faster than the speed of light. We agree.

 

 

I think you have not solved the problem. Are you claiming that the large you will see your fist (say) moving at the speed of light or faster?

 

 

You do not have to prove anything, but I am not convinced your arguments quite solve the problem.

 

 

Right back at you!

i did say that from the big you's perspective you wil lsee your fist travel faster then light,i said the opisit really,i said to you that your hand will takes a fraction of a second to reach earth and that to a smaller observer it will take alot longer for your hand to reach the earth,there for thats time dilation,think hard about it,smaller person will experince hours of time passing before your hand reaches earth,but you will only experince a split second of time passing

[ajb]

I will also say that this problem is very similar to Ehrenfest's paradox. Anyone can google than and look at the proposed solutions.

[Mordred]

you a idiot kid,you know nothing,i just gave you everything you need to know

im not a fkin math teacher,i cant sit here and spit equasions,but i can fkin send you links that exsplains exactly what im saying,and the links prove it for me,i shouldnt have to come up with any type of math,your just a idiot, if you had a working brain you would of been understood what i said.

but let me guess,you still think your right?and every other physics expert is wrong?even albert is wrong too huh?someone get this guy a nobel prize but first put a helmet on him before he walks up the stairs to the stage, he might trip and hurt himself

This is the kind of attitude of a petulant child. I am asking for your idea on relativity you reply with attitude and show lack of math.

[ajb]

i did say that from the big you's perspective you wil lsee your fist travel faster then light,i said the opisit really,i said to you that your hand will takes a fraction of a second to reach earth and that to a smaller observer it will take alot longer for your hand to reach the earth,there for thats time dilation,think hard about it,smaller person will experince hours of time passing before your hand reaches earth,but you will only experince a split second of time passing

Well, then your statement of a fraction of a second must be unphysical. This suggests to me that you can 'tap the Earth' before a photon released at the same time as you start to move your arm reaches the Earth. Thus you have faster than light communication. This is the problem.

 

I hope you see our confusion with the thought experiment your propose. The solution we think is really in that it takes time for your shoulder to tell your fist to move.

 

PS. Lunch time here, I may check this thread again in a few hours.

Edited February 14, 2016 by ajb

[TheThing]

This is the kind of attitude of a petulant child. I am asking for your idea on relativity you reply with attitude and show lack of math.

you keep going on on about the math,can you fkin sit here and show me the math that proves im wrong?if not then stfu about the fkin math

you fail to understand that i dont need math to proove any of this,its already been proved by thousands of people with out using math,go search for yourself

Edited February 14, 2016 by TheThing

[Mordred]

you keep going on on about the math,can you fkin sit here and show me the math that proves im wrong?if not then stfu about the fkin math

you fail to understand that i dont need math to proove any of this,its already been proved by thousands of people with out using math,go search for yourself

I'm done I'm recommending a thread lock to the moderators.

 

Take your attitude elsewhere we have no place for it here.

Edited February 14, 2016 by Mordred

[TheThing]

Well, then your statement of a fraction of a second must be unphysical. This suggests to me that you can 'tap the Earth' before a photon released at the same time as you start to move your arm reaches the Earth. Thus you have faster than light communication. This is the problem.

 

I hope you see our confusion with the thought experiment your propose. The solution we think is really in that it takes time for your shoulder to tell your fist to move.

 

PS. Lunch time here, I may check this thread again in a few hours.

i ment to say that i didnt say the larger you would see his hand move faster then light

[Mordred]

I'm done I'm recommending a thread lock to the moderators.

 

Take your attitude elsewhere we have no place for it here.

[TheThing]

I'm done I'm recommending a thread lock to the moderators.

 

Take your attitude elsewhere we have no place for it here

oh whats wrong smart guy??

dont have any math for me?

didnt think so

[Mordred]

oh whats wrong smart guy??

dont have any math for me?

didnt think so

You want math so be it. Lets define length contraction and time dilation for starters.

 

Yes I am cheating on using prior posts.(simply because your not worth the bother of a detailed post)

Lorentz transformation.

First two postulates.

1) the results of movement in different frames must be identical

2) light travels by a constant speed c in a vacuum in all frames.

Consider 2 linear axes x (moving with constant velocity and [latex]\acute{x}[/latex] (at rest) with x moving in constant velocity v in the positive [latex]\acute{x}[/latex] direction.

Time increments measured as a coordinate as dt and [latex]d\acute{t}[/latex] using two identical clocks. Neither [latex]dt,d\acute{t}[/latex] or [latex]dx,d\acute{x}[/latex] are invariant. They do not obey postulate 1.

A linear transformation between primed and unprimed coordinates above

in space time ds between two events is

[latex]ds^2=c^2t^2=c^2dt-dx^2=c^2\acute{t}^2-d\acute{x}^2[/latex]

Invoking speed of light postulate 2.

[latex]d\acute{x}=\gamma(dx-vdt), cd\acute{t}=\gamma cdt-\frac{dx}{c}[/latex]

Where [latex]\gamma=\frac{1}{\sqrt{1-(\frac{v}{c})^2}}[/latex]

Time dilation

dt=proper time ds=line element

since [latex]d\acute{t}^2=dt^2[/latex] is invariant.

an observer at rest records consecutive clock ticks seperated by space time interval [latex]dt=d\acute{t}[/latex] she receives clock ticks from the x direction separated by the time interval dt and the space interval dx=vdt.

[latex]dt=d\acute{t}^2=\sqrt{dt^2-\frac{dx^2}{c^2}}=\sqrt{1-(\frac{v}{c})^2}dt[/latex]

so the two inertial coordinate systems are related by the lorentz transformation

[latex]dt=\frac{d\acute{t}}{\sqrt{1-(\frac{v}{c})^2}}=\gamma d\acute{t}[/latex]

So the time interval dt is longer than interval [latex]d\acute{t}[/latex]

If your not using Lorentz then you need to define the coordinate transformation rules.

Here is relativity of simultaneaty coordinate transformation in Lorentz.

[latex]\acute{t}=\frac{t-vx/c^2}{\sqrt{1-v^2/c^2}}[/latex]

[latex]\acute{x}=\frac{x-vt}{\sqrt{1-v^2/c^2}}[/latex]

[latex]\acute{y}=y[/latex]

[latex]\acute{z}=z[/latex]

 

Now if you truly understand the above you would realize it works for particle to particle interactions via a medium

 

If you doubt me Google baryon acoustic oscillations for detail

This principle applies to particle to particle interactions within your rigid rod.....

 

common sense can tell you that..

 

The speed limit of c is not just the speed of light it is also the speed limit of interactions and information exchange.

 

Don't believe me look at the the laws of causality compared to wordlines.

 

No interaction can occur faster than c. A rigid rod is made up of particles... unless it's some mythical substance that doesn't exist......

 

Therefore information exchange of its momentum can only occur via exchange of that momentum via particle to particle I interactions. Where no particle can travel faster than c.

 

Get the point

Edited February 14, 2016 by Mordred

[hypervalent_iodine]

!

Moderator Note

We're done here. TheThing, we will not tolerate you insulting members. If you can't hold discussion without becoming abusive, you need to review your ability to hold one.