Early U.S. [History]

[Externet]

My history knowledge of the US is very limited.

Did at any time, perhaps around 1800 or earlier, citizens of the newly established states needed a passport/documents to move/travel from one state to the other ?

-Like Europe had strict traveling documents well into the 20th century-

[fiveworlds]

-Like Europe had strict traveling documents well into the 20th century-

 

We still have them any police officer can ask for your passport and or driving license. You may not get stopped at borders much anymore but you should always have some form of id.

Edited February 16, 2016 by fiveworlds

[iNow]

I'm not certain, though my instincts say no. You should validate that.

 

During the revolutionary war, however, papers often needed to be presented to conform you weren't a red coat / British soldier. A good overview here: https://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/11181108/Huffman_gsas.harvard_0084L_11140.pdf?sequence=1

 

Finally, if you were black during slave times, you needed paperwork from the slave master to travel off the plantation. They had to carry slave passes: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave_patrol#History

[zapatos]

 

Freedom of movement under United States law is governed primarily by the Privileges and Immunities Clause of the United States Constitution which states, "The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States." As far back as the circuit court ruling in Corfield v. Coryell, 6 Fed. Cas. 546 (1823), the Supreme Court recognized freedom of movement as a fundamental Constitutional right.

 

As early as the Articles of Confederation the Congress recognized freedom of movement (Article 4), though the right was thought to be so fundamental during the drafting of the Constitution as not needing explicit enumeration.^[4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_movement_under_United_States_law

[imatfaal]

We still have them any police officer can ask for your passport and or driving license. You may not get stopped at borders much anymore but you should always have some form of id.

Less of the "we" - some bits of Europe have requirements to carry ID other parts do not. The UK and other parts of Europe have not all reached the state in which ID (or proof of same) can be demanded a propos of nothing. Proof can be requested a PC investigating a crime / in furtherance of his duties who is not sure the ID given is valid can take measures to assure himself; from a request for proof to detention until certain if contemplating charging for an offence.

[fiveworlds]

Less of the "we" - some bits of Europe have requirements to carry ID other parts do not. The UK and other parts of Europe have not all reached the state in which ID (or proof of same) can be demanded a propos of nothing.

 

That's not true I have been to the UK you can get stopped at a police checkpoint on the road at any time so they can check tax etc. Alternatively they can ask for your driving license to check if you have penalty points or not. Or if you are standing in one place too long (aka loitering) the PC can ask for your id.

Edited February 16, 2016 by fiveworlds

[imatfaal]

That's not true I have been to the UK you can get stopped at a police checkpoint on the road at any time so they can check tax etc. Alternatively they can ask for your driving license to check if you have penalty points or not.

 

Are you talking about when you are driving a car? Because that is a totally different matter (it is a privilege and done under licence which allows different rules to apply) and seems like suddenly moving the goalposts. Any way Offtopic - let us desist

[EdEarl]

From Wikipedia:

For much of American history, the right to travel included the right to travel by the vehicle of one's choice, and courts occasionally struck down regional regulations that required licenses or government permission to travel on public roadways. With the advent of the automobile, however, courts began upholding laws and regulations requiring licenses to operate vehicles on roadways. Constitutional scholar Roger Roots has referred to the forgotten right to travel without license as "the orphaned right.

This orphaned right, travel without ID, does not stop police from detaining people when they believe it necessary, sometimes unlawfully but often for something trivial like walking on the grass instead of a sidewalk.

Edited February 16, 2016 by EdEarl

[Externet]

Excellent link from iNow. Thanks ! *

 

Drop the off-topic driving thing; it is about crossing borders between early states well before automobiles. Before the "U" in U.S.A. If the states were then, like individual / independent countries, "I.S.A."

 

Appears to me that the "Presidents" of the 13 states / colonies got together to say / sign we are giving up from being independent states and joining United by the constitution document.

 

*From that link :

Edited February 16, 2016 by Externet

[Ophiolite]

 

We still have them any police officer can ask for your passport and or driving license. You may not get stopped at borders much anymore but you should always have some form of id.

I carry a mirror. I can easily identify myself with that.

[abbones]

Is there any American history pre-1800?

[Externet]

Plenty of American history for maaaany centuries before 1800.

[EdEarl]

Plenty of American history for maaaany centuries before 1800.

Little written history; however, the Mayans developed writing.

Wikipedia:

 

The earliest inscriptions found, which are identifiably Maya, date to the 3rd century BCE in San Bartolo, Guatemala.

Unfortunately, Europeans destroyed most Mayan writing.

 

American archeological finds go back more than 15,000 years.

[John Cuthber]

Or if you are standing in one place too long (aka loitering) the PC can ask for your id.

On what grounds?

Or, to put it another way, oh no they can't.

From Wikipedia:

This orphaned right, travel without ID, does not stop police from detaining people when they believe it necessary, sometimes unlawfully but often for something trivial like walking on the grass instead of a sidewalk.

That the police behave unlawfully isn't quite the same thing as a legal right.

[MigL]

If you get stopped by a police officer in the US, Ophiolite, and you have that 'smart-ass' attitude, you're liable to 'spend the night' or get a beat-down ( or both ). I used to party in New York state in my younger days and State troopers don't really appreciate humor.

They will draw a gun for a traffic stop !

[iNow]

Unless Ophi is black, in which case he'd be shot and the officer exonerated.

Edited February 21, 2016 by iNow

[Ophiolite]

If you get stopped by a police officer in the US, Ophiolite, and you have that 'smart-ass' attitude, you're liable to 'spend the night' or get a beat-down ( or both ). I used to party in New York state in my younger days and State troopers don't really appreciate humor.

They will draw a gun for a traffic stop !

You would be amazed at what you can get away with if you have a British accent in the US. I have never had a gun pointed at me by a police officer in the US. This contrasts with my experiences in East Germany, Egypt, Nigeria and Algeria.

[imatfaal]

You would be amazed at what you can get away with if you have a British accent in the US. I have never had a gun pointed at me by a police officer in the US. This contrasts with my experiences in East Germany, Egypt, Nigeria and Algeria.

 

Did you make the crossing into West Berlin? - I think sans tooth sans everything that will be something I remember.

[Ophiolite]

 

Did you make the crossing into West Berlin? - I think sans tooth sans everything that will be something I remember.

Came through East Germany en route from Leningrad and Moscow and Warsaw and then into West Berlin. This was 1970.

[imatfaal]

Came through East Germany en route from Leningrad and Moscow and Warsaw and then into West Berlin. This was 1970.

 

Deep in the Brezhnev era - I was there in the interregnum between Brezhnev and Gorbachev in 1983 and when the wall came down six years later. Frightful - but memorable. BTW - if you haven't read Stasiland by Anna Funder I would really recommend it