Fruits and vegetables plantation

[Sensei]

Hello!

 

For some time, when I am eating vegetable or fruit, instead of throwing seeds to trash, I am putting them to container with soil. And waiting to see what happens.

 

I did it with f.e.

- lemon. So far 5 new trees are growing. Pretty poor rate between plants/seeds. I am eating/drinking one per day with tea, so every week there is ~70 new seeds.

Just 2 days ago, 2 of them appeared after nearly few months after placing them in soil (together with my chokeberry, so they were every day properly irrigated "accidentally")

- grapes. 4 new plants grew from a few hundred seeds.

- red sweet pepper. Nearly every seed grew to plant.

 

This is photo taken from my red pepper field (this is from single vegetable for $0.30):

They were growing in sprouter for couple weeks, then put to soil approximately 23-24 January 2016.

 

Newly germinated:

From yet another single piece of red sweet pepper, ate few weeks ago. Seeds put to sprouter. And once per day irrigated with water (boiled).

 

Conclusions:

- lemon does not like sprouter.

The majority of seeds that I put to sprouter caught within couple days mold.

Even though sprouter was decontaminated by boiling water.

And only boiled water, after decrease temperature, was used to irrigate.

At the same time, in sprouter near it, red pepper seeds didn't catch any single mold.

- Red pepper seeds have great rate plants/seeds.

 

Chokeberry, one of my the greatest plants, that I worked with. Nothing can stop it from growing. Does not bother about anything.

My chokeberries didn't even lost all leafs during winter in the apartment.

Instead they grew with artificial light from 100 Watt classic light bulb. Since early December total length of new sprouts with leafs is approximately 100 cm.

 

Best Regards!

Edited February 21, 2016 by Sensei

[Acme]

Hello!

 

For some time, when I am eating vegetable or fruit, instead of throwing seeds to trash, I am putting them to container with soil. And waiting to see what happens.

...

Best Regards!

Hello Sensei. Time is often of the essence. Read up on stratification Good growing!

[Sensei]

Yes, I am aware.

Some seeds even require passing through stomach of animals which eat them, through whole digestive tract and landing on the ground with poo, to be able to grow up.

I was wondering about trying to utilize mild Hydrochloric acid (perhaps other acid could be used also?) to simulate stomach environment for a while.

But either winter-simulation environment, or stomach-simulation environment, are unlikely to work with lemon seeds, which evolved in regions of the Earth that are often hotter in "winter" than here is in summer..

There is also too few lemon natural eating animals to create such path of distribution of seeds.

 

ps. I just wanted to encourage people here to not through away red pepper seeds, after eating, just make your own plants..

Edited February 22, 2016 by Sensei

[Acme]

Yes, I am aware.

Some seeds even require passing through stomach of animals which eat them, through whole digestive tract and landing on the ground with poo.

I was wondering about trying to utilize mild Hydrochloric acid (perhaps other acid could be used also?) to simulate stomach environment for a while.

But either winter-simulation environment, or stomach-simulation environment, are unlikely to work with limon seeds, which evolved in regions of the Earth that are often hotter in "winter" than here is in summer..

There is also too few lemon natural eating animals to create such path of distribution of seeds.

 

ps. I just wanted to encourage people here to not through away red pepper seeds, after eating, just make your own plants..

Acknowledged gardening promotion. Yay! One thing to keep in mind is that overcrowding of plants can be detrimental. There is also the matter of the size of the plant, e.g. squashes have many seeds but a single plant can take up tens of square feet. An option for said squash seeds is to roast them and eat them. Yum!

 

As to your lemon -or any seeds for that matter- you can find specifics by searching the phrase "propagation protocol for (name your plant)"

Lemon Tree Propagation Methods

...

Seed

 

Lemon seeds can be successfully propagated, even from store-bought fruit. There is a drawback to using seed harvested from commercial fruit. The parent plant may be a hybrid, with a greater chance that the seed will produce a sterile tree. Even so, the plant will be aromatic and attractive, making it a worthwhile endeavor. Whenever possible, harvest fruit and seed from a known tree to ensure the best results.

 

Lemon seed deteriorates quickly. Remove the seeds from the fruit. Rinse them well with plain water. Do not allow the seed to dry. Expedite germination by abrading the seed coat with fine sand paper, or nicking it with a knife or pin. Place the seed in a small container of growing medium or seed starter mix. There are commercially mixed citrus growing soils available, but any well draining potting soil will do. Some gardeners place the seeds on moistened paper towels sealed inside a zip lock bag. This allows closer observation of the seed as it swells and germinates, but is not a necessary step. Placed in a warm spot, or given bottom heat, the seed will sprout in about one week.

...

[John Cuthber]

It should be possible to grow lemons at home- you may have been unlucky in finding that the ones you bought some low fertility hybrid.

 

https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/grow-your-own/fruit/citrus?type=f

 

My dad has a loquat tree growing in the garden - started as a seed, but it's been growing OK and producing fruit. On the other hand it's not a tropical species.

[Sensei]

One thing to keep in mind is that overcrowding of plants can be detrimental.

Do you meant taking farmers job?

They should learn quantum physics instead..

Or programming, electronics, engineering and robotics. *)

So instead of human harvesting plant fields, robot should/could be doing this job.

 

Automatic drone with camera flying above field, and analyzing which field needs water, which needs fight with insects, which field needs some fertilizer. etc

 

*) especially didn't mention genetics, because for current (greedy) corporations it means making GMO seeds that cannot have offspring... And farmer is **** up, to buy seeds forever, every year..

For thousands years they used previous year seeds, without any problems.. Without having to pay anybody anything (except kings, nobility, and similar thieves) .

Why to make GMO seeds that can't have offspring the next year? Because if something goes wrong with genetic modification, it won't spread further in nature...

And they have continuous flow of cash every year.. adhesion of client-farmers to their product.

 

There is also the matter of the size of the plant, e.g. squashes have many seeds but a single plant can take up tens of square feet.

I will worry when they grow to such size. Chokeberry can have 4 meters. Before it reach such size, I could cut it any place I want and put in the ground.

Actually I did it in the middle of previous summer. And new tree started growing. Even though books say it's good to do it in autumn-winter.

I especially did it in summer (at 1 August, even recorded date) to check what will happens. I had 6+ branches of chokeberry, so risk was minimal.

Now I can easily have 10 independent chokeberries around me.

 

Actually I make great squash cake, in Autumn. It smells and tastes like gingerbread.

 

 

It should be possible to grow lemons at home- you may have been unlucky in finding that the ones you bought some low fertility hybrid.

John, you didn't read carefully. I said I have 5 lemon trees already.

My aim is to have 20+ lemon trees.

If each one will have 20 fruits, that's my full year usage (~365 fruits), which will mean self-reliance.

And saving approximately $100 per year on buying them..

I am just unsatisfied by ratio between plants/seeds.

 

Every day, ~10 new seeds.

From different countries, from different continents. Thus different source of seed from which they grew.

 

My dad has a loquat tree growing in the garden - started as a seed, but it's been growing OK and producing fruit. On the other hand it's not a tropical species.

That's interesting.

Did you try to eat this fruit.. ?

How it tasted.. ?

Tried to spread it from fruit seed again.. ?

How many fruits it has in summer?

 

ps. I prefer Aronia, than Chokeberry name.

Edited February 22, 2016 by Sensei

[Acme]

 

One thing to keep in mind is that overcrowding of plants can be detrimental.

Do you meant taking farmers job?

 

No; I meant having the plants too close to one another.

 

[They should learn quantum physics instead..

Or programming, electronics, engineering and robotics. *)

Easy big fella. Not everyone is suited to those jobs any more than everyone is suited to be farmers.

 

So instead of human harvesting plant fields, robot should/could be doing this job.

 

Automatic drone with camera flying above field, and analyzing which field needs water, which needs fight with insects, which field needs some fertilizer. etc

I imagine some of that is being done, but it's no substitute for taking an old-fashioned walk in the field.

 

*) especially didn't mention genetics, because for current (greedy) corporations it means making GMO seeds that cannot have offspring... And farmer is **** up, to buy seeds forever, every year..

For thousands years they used previous year seeds, without any problems.. Without having to pay anybody anything (except kings, nobility, and similar thieves) .

Why to make GMO seeds that can't have offspring the next year? Because if something goes wrong with genetic modification, it won't spread further in nature...

And they have continuous flow of cash every year.. adhesion of client-farmers to their product.

Well, farmers have been growing seed crops for seed companies for a good long time on the basis of hybridization. At the heart of it it's been genetic manipulation all along. (Greed too of course, but I think that character trait is to found in any job.) I think the jury is still out on GMOs but inasmuch as hybridized monocultures have presented problems I don't doubt the same will hold true for the GMOs. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

[Sensei]

No; I meant having the plants too close to one another.

That's because I waited too long, getting them out from sprouter, to soil. Didn't have enough soil ATM.

Their roots mixed up. Disallowing their safe separation, without damage...

 

Anyway, it was my experiment how is red pepper behaving.

The next day, it seems, plus week waiting, I can have (and you too) 100+ new plants for further experiments..

Edited February 22, 2016 by Sensei

[Acme]

That's because I waited too long, getting them out from sprouter, to soil. Didn't have enough soil ATM.

Their roots mixed up. Disallowing their safe separation, without damage...

 

Anyway, it was my experiment how is red pepper behaving.

The next day, it seems, plus week waiting, I can have (and you too) 100+ new plants for further experiments..

Very good! FWIW I have been growing my own fruits & veggies for about a dozen years. Just got back in from cutting out old raspberry canes and tying up the new ones. YodaPs started a thread a while back that I contributed to and posted some pictures in. It's here: >> (Sub)Urban Farming

 

I also propagate native plants both from seed and from cuttings, many of which are edible and/or medicinal. Yay botany!!

[Endy0816]

Very cool. I like hearing about people's projects.

[Sensei]

FWIW I have been growing my own fruits & veggies for about a dozen years.

I would like to see their photos..

And their stories.

Which were easy to grow (by them self), which were hard one to grow (and why)..

[Moontanman]

Hello!

 

For some time, when I am eating vegetable or fruit, instead of throwing seeds to trash, I am putting them to container with soil. And waiting to see what happens.

 

I did it with f.e.

- lemon. So far 5 new trees are growing. Pretty poor rate between plants/seeds. I am eating/drinking one per day with tea, so every week there is ~70 new seeds.

Just 2 days ago, 2 of them appeared after nearly few months after placing them in soil (together with my chokeberry, so they were every day properly irrigated "accidentally")

- grapes. 4 new plants grew from a few hundred seeds.

- red sweet pepper. Nearly every seed grew to plant.

 

This is photo taken from my red pepper field (this is from single vegetable for $0.30):

Red Pepper 001.png

They were growing in sprouter for couple weeks, then put to soil approximately 23-24 January 2016.

 

Newly germinated:

Red Pepper 003.png

From yet another single piece of red sweet pepper, ate few weeks ago. Seeds put to sprouter. And once per day irrigated with water (boiled).

 

Conclusions:

- lemon does not like sprouter.

The majority of seeds that I put to sprouter caught within couple days mold.

Even though sprouter was decontaminated by boiling water.

And only boiled water, after decrease temperature, was used to irrigate.

At the same time, in sprouter near it, red pepper seeds didn't catch any single mold.

- Red pepper seeds have great rate plants/seeds.

 

Chokeberry, one of my the greatest plants, that I worked with. Nothing can stop it from growing. Does not bother about anything.

My chokeberries didn't even lost all leafs during winter in the apartment.

Instead they grew with artificial light from 100 Watt classic light bulb. Since early December total length of new sprouts with leafs is approximately 100 cm.

 

Best Regards!

 

 

Growing plants, especially food plants is fun, I like growing tree seeds, bonsai from seeds is slow but you get to manipulate the plants from the very beginning. Cacti hybridization is really where my heart goes, It's good to hear others are experimenting with growing seeds.

 

 

Another good thing about seeds is that they can be sent through the mail, I have some very unusual plants I obtained seeds for by trading seeds.

 

I am always interested in what others are growing, keep us informed about how the plantation is going!

[Acme]

I would like to see their photos..

And their stories.

Which were easy to grow (by them self), which were hard one to grow (and why)..

So the thread I linked to is full of my photos so I won't put those here in repeat. The only thing we've had trouble with is Brussels sprouts and I have no idea why. The plants grew fine & tall but no sprouts ever developed. Too short a season perhaps? As they take a fair amount of space we gave up after 2 years & planted things we did well with.

 

While I have used a green house to get seedlings going early, I haven't seen any great advantage in it over just sticking the seeds in the ground. (Except for the peas which will stand cold weather but not sprout in it.) I don't know so much about easy, but I do keep it fairly simple. Put seeds in ground, water, weed, & wait.

[Robittybob1]

Have you got a pic of a Chokeberry I've never seen it.

Do you like eating them?

Edited February 22, 2016 by Robittybob1

[hypervalent_iodine]

Your lemon seeds might not be a fan of the soil you're using, lack of sunlight, and / or the soil is either too dry or too wet. Do you have peat moss available to you? This with some perlite or sand for drainage is good for starting seeds, though fungus can be more of a problem with peat (I find a sprinkle of cinnamon helps to prevent this). Also, your lemon trees probably won't produce any fruit for a few years (around 5 years, maybe more).

[Sensei]

Here are photos of my black currant the last year:

 

Do you like eating them?

Better is to drink them with alcohol/vodka/ethanol..

Aronia drink is very good.

Your lemon seeds might not be a fan of the soil you're using, lack of sunlight,

Like I said, they have experienced just artificial light source so far..

This does not mean anything to them until they appear above ground, their first sprouts..

The first one that appeared in December.. And none of them seen the Sun any time, the real Sun, just 100 W light bulb so far.

 

From quantum physics, 100 W which is 7 cm for the closest lemon sprout is much more energy than the Sun which which is 150 mln km far away, giving 1367 W/m^2, any time.

The one lemon 7 cm far from light bulb is growing the best so far (the fastest).

 

Soil given to them have some fertilizers according to label. I don't think so it matters until the first sprout appears.

There have to appear the first sprouts to find out that soil is wrong, or right. When they are in seed, they do not know, yet.

 

and / or the soil is either too dry or too wet.

You're going from one extremity to other extremity. You should decide which one route you prefer...

 

While irrigation, I do it one per day.

So the same with irrigation of sprouter device.

It's transparent plastic, easy to find out when it's out of water..

 

Do you have peat moss available to you?

I had some great experience with peat the last year while working with Aronia, and other fruit seedlings.

With lemon, I could not try it. It's too early. Markets don't sell it, yet.

Maybe in a month or two from now.

 

 

Have you got a pic of a Chokeberry I've never seen it.

This is absolutely the first photo of Aronia, taken the hour I bought them:

Prior putting to the ground.

Edited February 22, 2016 by Sensei

[hypervalent_iodine]

Soil given to them have some fertilizers according to label. I don't think so it matters until the first sprout appears.

There have to appear the first sprouts to find out that soil is wrong, or right. When they are in seed, they do not know, yet.

That's not quite true. Certain seeds require pre-treatment before they will germinate, which suggests that external environment matters a great deal. Some Australian native plants need to be smoked or treated with smoke discs, for example. Snap dragon seeds won't grow if they are too deep in the soil and considerably more will sprout if they have been frozen for 48 hours beforehand. If the soil acidity, light, moisture conditions (for example) are not right, the seeds will not grow. Lemon seeds are more forgiving though, so you shouldn't have to worry about much beyond how well draining the soil is and how much light they're getting.

 

You're going from one extremity to other extremity. You should decide which one route you prefer...

 

I'm not sure I follow. I was suggesting that your soil could be too wet or too dry. Both are bad.

[Sensei]

I was talking about from point of view of lemon seed.

I agree that some Australian's seeds require simulation of smoke, which is natural in their environment, but we were talking about lemon seed environment..

That's Asia south-east region of the Earth. Pretty wet and hot region.

Each specie needs special different treatment.

 

Winter-simulation is keeping seed in cold,

while smoke/fire-simulation require heat.

You don't have to put literally seed to fire, just to heat it to enough temperature in device pretending natural environment.

Fooling seed, that these things really happened. Fool their miniatures of receivers that analyze data from around the world.

Edited February 22, 2016 by Sensei

[hypervalent_iodine]

It was an example. As you'll note by the fact that I gave a subsequent example of how external conditions can alter germination success, it is not the only case. This is why I brought up soil conditions.

 

I am aware that you don't have to put the seeds in fire for them to grow, but just elevating the temperature is insufficient. It's the chemicals in the smoke that stimulates growth. I grow a lot of them myself from seed. You can smoke them or, as I do, soak them with a smoke disk. No need to add heat.

[Acme]

I was talking about from point of view of lemon seed.

I agree that some Australian's seeds require simulation of smoke, which is natural in their environment, but we were talking about lemon seed environment..

That's Asia south-east region of the Earth. Pretty wet and hot region.

Each specie needs special different treatment.

 

Winter-simulation is keeping seed in cold,

while smoke/fire-simulation require heat.

You don't have to put literally seed to fire, just to heat it to enough temperature in device pretending natural environment.

Fooling seed, that these things really happened. Fool their miniatures of receivers that analyze data from around the world.

I agree that each species differs in seed dormancy, however even for a single species it is not a simple matter to reliably break the dormancy.

 

Seed Dormancy

...

Overview

 

True dormancy or innate dormancy is caused by conditions within the seed that prevent germination under normally ideal conditions. Often seed dormancy is divided into two major categories based on what part of the seed produces dormancy: exogenous and endogenous.[5] There are three types of dormancy based on their mode of action: physical, physiological and morphological.[6]

 

There have been a number of classification schemes developed to group different dormant seeds, but none have gained universal usage. Dormancy occurs because of a wide range of reasons that often overlap, producing conditions in which definitive categorization is not clear. Compounding this problem is that the same seed that is dormant for one reason at a given point may be dormant for another reason at a later point. Some seeds fluctuate from periods of dormancy to non dormancy, and despite the fact that a dormant seed appears to be static or inert, in reality they are still receiving and responding to environmental cues.

...

In short, what works for germinating seeds from one fruit, i.e. one type of fruit, may not work for seeds from another fruit of the same type. You should expect to see an unpredictable variability in the results for germination for all your peppers, all your lemons, etcetera, regardless of your keeping conditions equal to the best of your ability. The best advice I can offer from my experience is that the more seeds you plant, the more seeds that you are likely to germinate.

[Sensei]

Have you got a pic of a Chokeberry I've never seen it.

I found two photos taken 15 August 2015, 15 days after cutting one branch and putting to the soil, in separate container:

20 cm of branch is below the ground

 

Chokeberry is very fast growing plant, a lot forgivable and easy to handle.

Edited February 22, 2016 by Sensei

[imatfaal]

Red Pepper - if you are still growing these be aware of spider mites; every time I have grown red peppers, chilli peppers and similar stuff they have been over-taken by spider mites and not had the leaf coverage to continue growing.

[Sensei]

The first lemon tree that appeared from soil (in common container with Aronia), and was immediately moved to separate container with soil (to make room for others):

 

Second lemon tree, moved today:

 

See it's size! It's nearly double size of the first tree, even though it was 2nd in row.

Third, the last one that appeared from soil, now is the biggest from the all of three, so far?!

 

 

While moving it from soil, it appeared, that it's root is much bigger than overall plant on the surface.

So, had to put it to coca-cola container instead what I planned originally, because would have to bend its root in literally circle..

 

Comparison between them on one image, so you can estimate their sizes:

 

 

I was making "holes" in new lemon seeds (with needle, so they can drink water more easily), 20+ new one to put to the soil,

and started mixing them with soil,

and found out that old seeds released roots, some even to 5 cm, so far, perhaps weeks ago, stopped counting them at 7+,

so I had to prepare space for them in Aronia container..

That's why all this movement of old plants to new containers..

 

Including these seeds which released roots, and plants on surface, I have totally 14 lemon trees so far.

I will need to buy new 10L soil tomorrow, so their roots will be able to grow correctly..

 

ps. The all of them grew on artificial light source, 100 W light bulb.

Edited March 2, 2016 by Sensei

[Sensei]

The only thing we've had trouble with is Brussels sprouts and I have no idea why. The plants grew fine & tall but no sprouts ever developed. Too short a season perhaps? As they take a fair amount of space we gave up after 2 years & planted things we did well with.

Maybe this will help a bit:

http://honeybeesuite.com/do-brussels-sprouts-need-pollination/

See also Rusty msg in comments.

OTOH, they have edible buds.

 

From my language wiki:

"Brussels sprouts can not proceed after the other cruciferous vegetables, cucumbers and pumpkins."

 

There are plants that can self pollinate, other needs bees, and exchange with other plants on plantation, yet another different kind of insects.

 

If you have just "male" plants, or all "female" plants, they won't be able to reproduce. Unless they have either one on single plant, or switch sex.

It's better described here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_reproductive_morphology

 

"Like Amborella, some plants undergo sex-switching. For example, Arisaema triphyllum (Jack-in-the-pulpit) expresses sexual differences at different stages of growth: smaller plants produce all or mostly male flowers; as plants grow larger over the years the male flowers are replaced by more female flowers on the same plant. Arisaema triphyllum thus covers a multitude of sexual conditions in its lifetime: nonsexual juvenile plants, young plants that are all male, larger plants with a mix of both male and female flowers, and large plants that have mostly female flowers.[15] Other plant populations have plants that produce more male flowers early in the year and as plants bloom later in the growing season they produce more female flowers.[citation needed]"

 

While I have used a green house to get seedlings going early, I haven't seen any great advantage in it over just sticking the seeds in the ground. (Except for the peas which will stand cold weather but not sprout in it.) I don't know so much about easy, but I do keep it fairly simple. Put seeds in ground, water, weed, & wait.

Green house could make harder bees and insects to get in, if plant requires them.

Edited March 8, 2016 by Sensei

[Acme]

Maybe this will help a bit:

http://honeybeesuite.com/do-brussels-sprouts-need-pollination/

See also Rusty msg in comments.

OTOH, they have edible buds.

No; that's no help. Yes; I know the buds are edible and that's what I was growing them for. My problem was that the sprouts (which are the flower buds) never formed to edible size in a growing season.

 

From my language wiki:

"Brussels sprouts can not proceed after the other cruciferous vegetables, cucumbers and pumpkins."

 

There are plants that can self pollinate, other needs bees, and exchange with other plants on plantation, yet another different kind of insects.

 

If you have just "male" plants, or all "female" plants, they won't be able to reproduce. Unless they have either one on single plant, or switch sex.

It's better described here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_reproductive_morphology

 

"Like Amborella, some plants undergo sex-switching. For example, Arisaema triphyllum (Jack-in-the-pulpit) expresses sexual differences at different stages of growth: smaller plants produce all or mostly male flowers; as plants grow larger over the years the male flowers are replaced by more female flowers on the same plant. Arisaema triphyllum thus covers a multitude of sexual conditions in its lifetime: nonsexual juvenile plants, young plants that are all male, larger plants with a mix of both male and female flowers, and large plants that have mostly female flowers.[15] Other plant populations have plants that produce more male flowers early in the year and as plants bloom later in the growing season they produce more female flowers.[citation needed]"

 

 

Green house could make harder bees and insects to get in, if plant requires them.

Again no help. If you let Brussels sprouts flower then there is no sprout to eat. I am (was) not interested in growing them for seed.

 

Thanks anyway and good luck with those lemon trees.

In the spirit of propagation, one of my projects began leafing out about a week ago. In spite of the name Mock Orange, this is neither a fruit nor vegetable so I appeal for some leniency.

 

I took a few cuttings last Summer and dipped them in rooting hormone powder and put them in 4" pots. I left them outside, but under a translucent cover so as not to sun burn them and I kept them well watered. Last Fall I moved them to 6" pots.

 

First photo is today; second photo is of the blooms on the original plant last Summer.

 

 

 

Philadelphus lewisii

Philadelphus lewisii (Lewis' mock-orange) is a deciduous shrub native to western North America, from northwestern California in the Sierra Nevada, north to southern British Columbia, and east to Idaho and Montana. It is widespread but not very common, usually appearing as an individual plant amongst other species. It was first collected by Meriwether Lewis in 1806.

...

The flowers have a heavy, sweet scent similar to orange blossoms with a hint of pineapple. The fruit is a small hard capsule about a centimeter long with woody, pointed wings, containing many brown seeds.

 

Uses

 

Native American tribes used P. lewisii for numerous purposes. The hard wood was useful for making hunting and fishing tools, snowshoes, pipes, and furniture. The leaves and bark, which contain saponins, were mixed in water for use as a mild soap. ...

PS The wire screen is to keep the squirrels from digging in the pot to bury nuts.