Brexit impact on science

[Klaynos]

Less than 50% of the elegable voters. I don't think that's necessarily a strong mandate.

[StringJunky]

It's totally the wrong decision.

[CharonY]

Less than 50% of the elegable voters. I don't think that's necessarily a strong mandate.

It is a strongly divided referendum. Ignoring it would be very costly in terms of votes.

[Klaynos]

It is a strongly divided referendum. Ignoring it would be very costly in terms of votes.

Yes. As it's so divided I don't think there's an easy answer. A very worrying time.

[Prometheus]

Less than 50% of the elegable voters. I don't think that's necessarily a strong mandate.

 

Even though i disagree with the outcome, to not act on it would be a travesty to democracy. A large part of the disillusionment with the EU in the UK is that the ruling elite does not listen to normal people. Ignoring this referendum outcome would simply confirm these suspicions.

[Strange]

But the whole point of the leave campaign is that the British parliament should make our laws. Therefore parliament should vote on what to do.

 

Referendums are a good demonstration of the flaws of democracy. And this one has no legal status as a decision. It is up to the democratically elected representatives to decide (the country is a representative democracy, after all).

[Klaynos]

I don't think they should ignore the result. And doing so would probably significantly strengthen some parties.

 

I don't know what our duly elected representatives should do. But whatever it is it should not be rushed.

 

My concern all along had been that we don't really know what an exit deal would look like. That needs to be sorted, calmly and probably slowly.

[CharonY]

It is 2-year negotiation process iirc. Can't help but being massively disappointed.

[Strange]

A "leave" politician just said that the PM should not rush to invoke Article 50 because "that could result in the UK being excluded from all sorts of decisions."

 

WTF.

 

The leave people WANT to be excluded from decisions in Europe.

[Klaynos]

A "leave" politician just said that the PM should not rush to invoke Article 50 because "that could result in the UK being excluded from all sorts of decisions."

 

WTF.

 

The leave people WANT to be excluded from decisions in Europe.

I've heard a lot of that kind of thing from leave people this morning.

[Strange]

I've heard a lot of that kind of thing from leave people this morning.

 

 

I have heard a lot of incoherent and contradictory nonsense from them ever since Farage crawled out of a hole somewhere. At least this might see then end of him and UKIP.

[StringJunky]

It is 2-year negotiation process iirc. Can't help but being massively disappointed.

Me too. I'm as upset as when we joined the Common Market in '71 and I was only 9. I know, work that one out. The trouble is, we are too integrated now and mutually reliant globally as well in Europe. We are not just a bit player.

[michel123456]

Question:

 

The British debt, is it counted in pounds or in dollars?

I mean, when the Sterling goes down, what about the debt?

[StringJunky]

Question:

 

The British debt, is it counted in pounds or in dollars?

I mean, when the Sterling goes down, what about the debt?

If the debt is to foreign agencies then and sterling goes down then, I presume, our debt goes up.

[michel123456]

If the debt is to foreign agencies then and sterling goes down then, I presume, our debt goes up.

Hmmm.

The Brits will suffer I am afraid.

Quoting "I-do-not-remember-who-was-the-economic-guru" at the beginning of the Greek crisis back in 2009: there will be blood.

[Prometheus]

I know we won't officially leave for a few years but the campaign to reinstate the UK into the EU starts now.

[imatfaal]

It's a nonbinding referendum.

 

No one really knows what's going to happen now.

 

 

But the whole point of the leave campaign is that the British parliament should make our laws. Therefore parliament should vote on what to do.

 

Referendums are a good demonstration of the flaws of democracy. And this one has no legal status as a decision. It is up to the democratically elected representatives to decide (the country is a representative democracy, after all).

 

 

Just to re-iterate - and I am pretty sure this is correct - nothing is technically binding on a sitting parliament; the queen and her ministers in parliament are sovereign. We don't even have any entrenched or higher legislation which requires a super-majority or a plebiscite to amend or get rid off (one could argue the EC act, the EU Act and the Human Rights Act are the closest). So the result of this referendum is not binding - but as nothing really is then the fact is less important.

 

I don't think that there is the political will to try to reverse this decision - lots of the old left are against the EU because of the fundamental neo-liberal classical bias (or should that be neo-classical liberalism ?), many of the right are just simply xenophobes, and the centre of both major parties is pretty toothless at present. The only area with a workable grievance is Scotland where not one region voted for Exit - but they will seek a different second referendum

[iNow]

Yay for another self-induced global recession!!

 

Some pretty outstanding charts and overviews available here: http://ritholtz.com/2016/06/brexit-meltdown/

 

This one is somewhat telling:

 

 

 

Ugh... another victory for ignorance and xenophobia. This needs to stop.

 

 

The old folks are sticking it to the young with this one.

 

[imatfaal]

bbc line up for this evening - this is not a hoax

 

And another - more chilling infographic - this time from Lord Ashcrofts poll

 

[CharonY]

Re: the age divide, unfortunately the turnout in areas with younger residents was lower. For this reason possibly education appears to be a stronger indicator (Guardian). On the other hand, I was saddened by the fact that some researchers that I know actually voted to leave. They were MDs so maybe their perspective is different, but still.

[imatfaal]

Re: the age divide, unfortunately the turnout in areas with younger residents was lower. For this reason possibly education appears to be a stronger indicator (Guardian). On the other hand, I was saddened by the fact that some researchers that I know actually voted to leave. They were MDs so maybe their perspective is different, but still.

 

MDs - Managing Directors of their own research co.s or Doctors of Medicine? To be frank - I struggle to see the reason to leave in either case; but then I know at least one medical researcher (who is both an MD and an MD) who when taken to task about why he wanted to leave was, amazingly and uniquely for him, unable to come up with a cogent argument. His was a more democratic/egalitarian stance in that his main thoughts were around the mood of the country, the prevalent general sentiment, almost the zeitgeist and his belief that the country would best heal outside the Union. He was right about the mood of dissatisfaction

[CharonY]

Sorry, I meant medical doctors. Quite frankly, I did not get it at all. My best guess is something is that it has something to do with their overall conservative stance, but I can only speculate (have not talked to them for a while).

[CharonY]

Uncertainty of funding issues starts impacting UK scientists in large collaborative cross-EU projects:

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/jul/12/uk-scientists-dropped-from-eu-projects-because-of-post-brexit-funding-fears

[iNow]

Read a story yesterday on how Brexit threatens neurodegenerative disease research in Europe, thus directly transforming a brain dead decision into real life brain dead humans.

[ajb]

So while nothing in law has changed - and it may be two or more years until it does - practice has changed. It is the just not knowing what will replace the existing systems that is the problem.

 

But it is not all doom and gloom. The UKs participation in large projects like CERN are not through the EU. ESA works with the EU, but again it is not part of the EU.

 

However ITER is funded by the UK through the EU. This will need looking at.

 

 

As for the Horizons 2020 and so on, it is possible for the UK to pay into that pot and take money out. However, no one in governmant has actually said that we will contuine to pay into the EU science pot.

Edited July 13, 2016 by ajb