The theory of God

[Anomaly63]

Before I write my thoughts down I would just like to specify that this is merely food for thought. It's just an interesting rendition of thoughts I have about the idea of God.

 

As a god, a creater of all with no physical representation or otherwise with emence enough power to birth an entire universe in relative days you would make your story known would you not. Although the bible seems no different then any other rendition of a creation story turned truth I feel there is truth in it. As is every creation story there is atleast one truth, the universe is created. Now God is seen as a being but I don't think that's what he is. I believe God just is. He is life he surrounds us he is the air we breathe he is the water we drink because he is everything. It's almost as if he created everything out of himself and so he is everything. It's uncomprehendable to the human mind how great this idea is. The thought of a force that governs everything with laws of way. It's almost as if he is the force that drives life and death and separates the two. He controls everything and is the reason everything is as we know it. Know how things are created isn't magic, there are fundamentals behind it. There are viable blocks that hold everything together. It's held together by actual forms not an invisible glue. It's like if you were to build a tower above the ground it's not going to stay in that place it will fall apart it has to have a foundation holding it together just like anything else.

 

Thanks for reading! I really appreciate any positive feedback and this was really just written to start discussion. (Please excuse any grammer and spelling errors thanks.)

[Robittybob1]

If you feel God should reveal himself why would he reveal himself to Homo sapiens in particular?

What does "relative days" mean.

Does God create the earthquakes, tsunamis, cyclones and hurricanes etc or just the sunny days?

Did you look at this thread http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/66260-defining-god/ before posting your theory?

[John Cuthber]

It's not testable, so it's not a theory.

[Robittybob1]

They were always putting God to the test in the Bible, so why not today?

[Prometheus]

The OP hasn't described the god of the Bible: it it closer to the Tao.

 

The first line of the Tao te ching: the Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao.

 

i.e. undefinable and untestable.

[Itoero]

I believe God just is. He is life he surrounds us he is the air we breathe he is the water we drink because he is everything.

That's pantheism.

[Phi for All]

They were always putting God to the test in the Bible, so why not today?

If you feel God should reveal himself why would he reveal himself to Homo sapiens in particular?

 

This is why not today. Today we have the scientific method, and for that any god(s) would have to be observable. They never show up, and the scientists have learned to just wait them out.

 

Falsifiability says it has to be possible there aren't god(s). Until they can be observed, you can't falsify them, so you can't really test god(s) with science. It's not possible on a fundamental level.

 

The title isn't appropriate on a science site. It should be "Food for Thought of God". Theory is vastly more rigorous.

[Robittybob1]

The OP hasn't described the god of the Bible: it it closer to the Tao.

 

The first line of the Tao te ching: the Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao.

 

i.e. undefinable and untestable.

How many Gods are there? All philosophies ought to be pointing to the one won't they? All will be trying to describe the same concept, which may or may not be "undefinable and untestable".

 

This is why not today. Today we have the scientific method, and for that any god(s) would have to be observable. They never show up, and the scientists have learned to just wait them out.

 

Falsifiability says it has to be possible there aren't god(s). Until they can be observed, you can't falsify them, so you can't really test god(s) with science. It's not possible on a fundamental level.

 

The title isn't appropriate on a science site. It should be "Food for Thought of God". Theory is vastly more rigorous.

We can't observe the spacetime curvature but we see the effects (gravitational lensing), so can we just test for effects of God and make predictions about God and see if they hold?

[Prometheus]

How many Gods are there? All philosophies ought to be pointing to the one won't they? All will be trying to describe the same concept, which may or may not be "undefinable and untestable".

We can't observe the spacetime curvature but we see the effects (gravitational lensing), so can we just test for effects of God and make predictions about God and see if they hold?

 

I don't care to count but i suspect there are as many concepts of god as there are people.

 

Here we should only talk about the idea of god given by the OP, and not confuse it with our own ideas of god(s). The OP seems to be describing pantheism, such as the Tao.

[Robittybob1]

 

I don't care to count but i suspect there are as many concepts of god as there are people.

 

Here we should only talk about the idea of god given by the OP, and not confuse it with our own ideas of god(s). The OP seems to be describing pantheism, such as the Tao.

OK. Has the OP come back* to discuss what he thinks? Does he agree with that restriction?

[* Not so far]

Edited February 23, 2016 by Robittybob1

[John Cuthber]

They were always putting God to the test in the Bible, so why not today?

Really, I must have heard about some other books

Luke 4:12

"And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God"

Matthew 4:7

Jesus replied, "It is also written: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'"

Deuteronomy 6:16

"Ye shall not tempt the LORD your God, as ye tempted him in Massah"

[Robittybob1]

Really, I must have heard about some other books

Luke 4:12

"And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God"

Matthew 4:7

Jesus replied, "It is also written: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'"

Deuteronomy 6:16

"Ye shall not tempt the LORD your God, as ye tempted him in Massah"

Well if I look at the context of the first quote:

 

…6 and said to Him, "If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down; for it is written, 'HE WILL COMMAND HIS ANGELS CONCERNING YOU'; and 'ON their HANDS THEY WILL BEAR YOU UP, SO THAT YOU WILL NOT STRIKE YOUR FOOT AGAINST A STONE.'" 7 Jesus said to him, "On the other hand, it is written, 'YOU SHALL NOT PUT THE LORD YOUR GOD TO THE TEST.'"

That is like saying: "Since you are such a good Christian walk out in front of the bus and see if God will save you."

There are the usual consequences of such actions and you should not deliberately tempt fate and expect a miracle.

The second quote needed a bit more digging for it was referring to another event even further back in time. In Exodus 17:6- 7

 

 

Water from the Rock

…6"Behold, I will stand before you there on the rock at Horeb; and you shall strike the rock, and water will come out of it, that the people may drink." And Moses did so in the sight of the elders of Israel. 7He named the place Massah and Meribah because of the quarrel of the sons of Israel, and because they tested the LORD, saying, "Is the LORD among us, or not?"

I suppose there is some reason for that saying but back in the day it didn't seem such a problem. I recall it had something to do with Moses doubt too. If you are really blessed never doubt that the Lord is amongst us.

[Moontanman]

Before I write my thoughts down I would just like to specify that this is merely food for thought. It's just an interesting rendition of thoughts I have about the idea of God.

 

As a god, a creater of all with no physical representation or otherwise with emence enough power to birth an entire universe in relative days you would make your story known would you not. Although the bible seems no different then any other rendition of a creation story turned truth I feel there is truth in it. As is every creation story there is atleast one truth, the universe is created. Now God is seen as a being but I don't think that's what he is. I believe God just is. He is life he surrounds us he is the air we breathe he is the water we drink because he is everything. It's almost as if he created everything out of himself and so he is everything. It's uncomprehendable to the human mind how great this idea is. The thought of a force that governs everything with laws of way. It's almost as if he is the force that drives life and death and separates the two. He controls everything and is the reason everything is as we know it. Know how things are created isn't magic, there are fundamentals behind it. There are viable blocks that hold everything together. It's held together by actual forms not an invisible glue. It's like if you were to build a tower above the ground it's not going to stay in that place it will fall apart it has to have a foundation holding it together just like anything else.

 

Thanks for reading! I really appreciate any positive feedback and this was really just written to start discussion. (Please excuse any grammer and spelling errors thanks.)

 

 

Could you show us your evidence that the universe was created?

 

Your feelings on the matter are not relevant.

 

By using the word "creation' you are begging the question. A creation assumes a creator and you have not given us any evidence of a creator. The universe is better named by the "reality" would you then assume a realtor?

 

You keep describing god as a him, again you are assuming your conclusion before asking the question.

 

The actions of god as described in the Holy Bible are by definition magic.

 

Why could the catalyst that caused reality to expand into existence not be a natural process we are just unaware of?

 

I can assert that the universe was brought into existence by a brobdingnagian creature consumes dark matter and excretes universes but has no idea of what it is doing. I can assert this with all the confidence you assert that a god created the universe.

 

"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence"

[John Cuthber]

 

There are the usual consequences of such actions and you should not deliberately tempt fate and expect a miracle.

If you are really blessed never doubt that the Lord is amongst us.

OK, so how else do you test for supernatural intervention?

 

So, it's fine to doubt if, like all of us sometimes, you are pissed off. Fine words, but still not testabl.

Edited February 23, 2016 by John Cuthber

[Robittybob1]

OK, so how else do you test for supernatural intervention?

 

....

I don't know about other religions but for Christians we seem to be allowed to ask for things. So you could ask for proof.

Now the proof you get may not be acceptable to anyone else but it might be enough for you.

[Phi for All]

I don't know about other religions but for Christians we seem to be allowed to ask for things. So you could ask for proof.

Now the proof you get may not be acceptable to anyone else but it might be enough for you.

 

Have every Christian on the planet simultaneously pray/ask for a specific amputee to regain their lost limb.

[Robittybob1]

 

Have every Christian on the planet simultaneously pray/ask for a specific amputee to regain their lost limb.

That's rather impossible. Half the Christians wouldn't go along with the idea to start with.

 

Basically you want proof of prayer, and evidenced beyond question as in a video or something like that.

 

Question then becomes who's got the faith to ask for such a thing? It isn't that easy and I don't know anyone who could do it, sorry.

I have heard of these things being done but I haven't witnessed it myself.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Robittybob1

[Phi for All]

That's rather impossible. Half the Christians wouldn't go along with the idea to start with.

 

Basically you want proof of prayer, and evidenced beyond question as in a video or something like that.

 

Question then becomes who's got the faith to ask for such a thing? It isn't that easy and I don't know anyone who could do it, sorry.

I have heard of these things being done but I haven't witnessed it myself.

 

Excuses, excuses, etcetera, ad infinitum.

 

How about you just pray for the poor soul, worldwide, because he's also a Christian, and would really like to get back the leg that got blown off when he saved those orphans and missionaries from getting hit by the evil train piloted by an evil atheist? How many people would pray for this guy now, how many would have the faith to try, just try?

[Robittybob1]

 

Excuses, excuses, etcetera, ad infinitum.

 

How about you just pray for the poor soul, worldwide, because he's also a Christian, and would really like to get back the leg that got blown off when he saved those orphans and missionaries from getting hit by the evil train piloted by an evil atheist? How many people would pray for this guy now, how many would have the faith to try, just try?

We did an experiment like this on another science forum that we might be able to find if I really think about it, and it seemed to work in fact it was very bizarre to be honest.

It would go something like this. Do we all agree that the situation in North Korea is getting dangerous now that North Korea (NK) has nukes and ballistic missiles that could deliver them.

What should we do about it?

Whatever we agree is the best outcome all of us here must do something in agreement (like say this in our posting) and we will then see if what we ask for happens.

We can set up the experiment on another thread so we don't get accused of hijacking this thread.

[Prometheus]

Prayer healing has been shown to be ineffective. If you need prayer to get your through hard times don't let anybody stop you, but don't try to convince anyone that magic sky daddy is rubbing it better.

[Robittybob1]

Prayer healing has been shown to be ineffective. If you need prayer to get your through hard times don't let anybody stop you, but don't try to convince anyone that magic sky daddy is rubbing it better.

So would you join in the experiment as described #19? Sounds like you think you have nothing to lose. It would be good to have about 20 participants.

 

Looking at the abstract of the study you quote "Intercessory prayer itself had no effect on complication-free recovery from CABG, but certainty of receiving intercessory prayer was associated with a higher incidence of complications."

 

More complications in those that knew they were going to have intercessory prayer, that in itself is rather odd. I would like to read that paper in full. Have you got a PDF of it? PS Got it.

https://www.templeton.org/pdfs/press_releases/060407STEP_paper.pdf

Prometheus, on 24 Feb 2016 - 9:52 PM, said:

Prayer healing has been shown to be ineffective. If you need prayer to get your through hard times don't let anybody stop you, but don't try to convince anyone that magic sky daddy is rubbing it better.

 

It was intercessory prayer that was at the heart of the study that would be quite different to healing prayer. I went to many churches and healing meetings looking for evidence of healing and it was rare.

In the end I questioned whether what the churches preached lacked the truth necessary to achieve the blessing from the Lord.

Does any church that preaches young earth creation have a history of successful healing meetings? Wouldn't that go against the truth?

Edited February 24, 2016 by Robittybob1

[iNow]

Rob - This question seems pertinent: http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/god5.htm

[Phi for All]

So would you join in the experiment as described #19? Sounds like you think you have nothing to lose. It would be good to have about 20 participants.

 

Sorry, but that's a waste of time. If it doesn't work, you get to say we needed more people. You'll always be able to say we need more of something, people, faith, incense, whatever. Because the religious explanations are always vague enough to provide sacred wiggle room to cover any lack of omnipotence.

 

An experiment to test amputation healing through faith needs numbers. It's got to be huge. It's got to be committed. It's got to be the focused "power" of prayer cast on a single person who has lost a limb, begging the Christian God to intercede and give this worthy person back his limb.

 

When this doesn't work, I fully expect the ultimate blame for failure to rest on the subject. All those Christians couldn't be ineffective, so it will eventually occur that the subject wasn't worthy. And we're back to square one.

[MigL]

The mind is powerful.

Believing something can affect you will usually help achieve that effect.

This works for things like headaches, muscle pains, etc.

All injuries which are realized by your mind.

 

It does not work for things like the loss of a limb.

No amount of wishful thinking, or prayer, will restore that limb.

 

So don't be a fool; Go see your doctor for any problems.

( as Conan the Barbarian used to say of his god, "Crom helps those who help themselves" )

[Phi for All]

The mind is powerful.

Believing something can affect you will usually help achieve that effect.

 

Is this what happens when a Christian's doctor tells them "It's not just in remission, your cancer is gone!" Because they often attribute stuff like that to their god, working through their doctor, giving her/him that extra ooomph-nipotence that turns a good prognosis into a great one.

 

You should tell these people it's all in their minds.