A more ethical society 2

[Eldad Eshel]

This thread is about the competitiveness of society, and the need for grades from early age, what I call the meat grinding machine. From the age of 6 kids are forced into schools, where the competitiveness is high, and also the demand from them, to bring grades and school accomplishment, mainly through tests they have to take. From the age of 6 they are thrown into the meat grinding machine. The parents want their kids to succeed, and push them towards the earning of good grades. The competitiveness is not just at school, but also at home, from their loved ones, from those who need to look out and care for them the most. Is this really the best system ? Why not a system of compassion and understanding ? towards those we love most. The learning material can be passed in different ways, than grades and tests.
Our society is a jungle, kind of like the wild jungle of the animal kingdom, where each individual has to survive on his own. At a more progressed age the individual must find a job or go to the university, and the pressure gets even more intense. Some are thrown out of this system and become homeless, living and begging on the streets.
The world of the open market, the world of jobs, is alot of elbow shoving, alot of sucking up, and looking physically attractive. It is a very stressful and competitive world where not everyone can get along. If you fall behind, you will get stampeded on, crushed to the grown.
The world of the academy is also very stressful and competitive, sort of the continuation of school for kids. It is mostly all grades and tests, where each individual is seen as a statistic and not as a human being. You fail to reach the acquired grade ? You are cut off. Simple as that.
I think a more progressed system needs to be implemented, where everyone can pursue their dreams, without tests and grades, but still with all the learning and education. There may be some initial flaws in this system, but overall it is more ethical and I'm sure the problems can be figured out with time.

[dimreepr]

Why would anyone engage with you on this question given that your recent posting history suggests you’ve already decided you’re correct?

[Strange]

I think a more progressed system needs to be implemented, where everyone can pursue their dreams, without tests and grades, but still with all the learning and education.

 

So you failed your exams but think you should be able to do whatever you want anyway. Meh.

[Eldad Eshel]

 

So you failed your exams but think you should be able to do whatever you want anyway. Meh.

I didn't fail anything.

But what if I did ? Big deal.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Eldad Eshel

[ajb]

I think there should be a better way than tests, exams and academic achievement on paper. I have no idea what system could replace the general system that seems to be used across the globe. I am just saying that there should be a better way.

[dimreepr]

I didn't fail anything.

But what if I did ? Big deal.

 

 

[StringJunky]

This thread is about the competitiveness of society, and the need for grades from early age, what I call the meat grinding machine. From the age of 6 kids are forced into schools, where the competitiveness is high, and also the demand from them, to bring grades and school accomplishment, mainly through tests they have to take. From the age of 6 they are thrown into the meat grinding machine. The parents want their kids to succeed, and push them towards the earning of good grades. The competitiveness is not just at school, but also at home, from their loved ones, from those who need to look out and care for them the most. Is this really the best system ? Why not a system of compassion and understanding ? towards those we love most. The learning material can be passed in different ways, than grades and tests.

Our society is a jungle, kind of like the wild jungle of the animal kingdom, where each individual has to survive on his own. At a more progressed age the individual must find a job or go to the university, and the pressure gets even more intense. Some are thrown out of this system and become homeless, living and begging on the streets.

The world of the open market, the world of jobs, is alot of elbow shoving, alot of sucking up, and looking physically attractive. It is a very stressful and competitive world where not everyone can get along. If you fall behind, you will get stampeded on, crushed to the grown.

The world of the academy is also very stressful and competitive, sort of the continuation of school for kids. It is mostly all grades and tests, where each individual is seen as a statistic and not as a human being. You fail to reach the acquired grade ? You are cut off. Simple as that.

I think a more progressed system needs to be implemented, where everyone can pursue their dreams, without tests and grades, but still with all the learning and education. There may be some initial flaws in this system, but overall it is more ethical and I'm sure the problems can be figured out with time.

 

The harsh rules of life from Man's early history haven't gone away, just transformed into new goals and priorities which we all compete for. The other problem, increasingly, there's becoming too many fish in the pond, so competition will only increase into the future.

[dimreepr]

I think there should be a better way than tests, exams and academic achievement on paper. I have no idea what system could replace the general system that seems to be used across the globe. I am just saying that there should be a better way.

[Prometheus]

Reminds me of this:

 

 

 

[StringJunky]

I think there should be a better way than tests, exams and academic achievement on paper. I have no idea what system could replace the general system that seems to be used across the globe. I am just saying that there should be a better way.

I agree, but it's the de facto way to filter people so that employers can select those with the appropriate skillset that they need. I dislike very much that kindergarten children in the UK are given homework, there is trend to push the young earlier and earlier. The scope and duration to let them just be children is diminishing rather quickly.

[Sirona]

Firstly, why are you assuming one can't be competitive and also compassionate/understanding? I don't understand how competitiveness in unethical; I can understand that someone may/could act unethically in order to achieve their goal, however, you seem to be stating that the nature of competition in society is a bad thing and without context this doesn't make any sense.

Who ever said you need to achieve good grades in school or go to University to be successful? I have a Masters with a high distinction average and first class honours yet I get paid less than an electrician, plumber and carpenter (trades which don't require you to finish high school for receive a University education, yet pay very well). There are many ways to be accomplished/successful, not just in monetary ways. What about someone who is competitive in sport or their personal fitness and health? Many people feel good when they are working towards their full potential and wanting to be one of the best at what you feel passionate about doesn't mean you're apathetic towards others.

 

[Eldad Eshel]

Competition by itself can even be positive, but when it comes to survival it is something different. Especially for young kids who barely started their lives. Kids are forced with heavy competition, which in this case and other cases is ugly and not positive at all.

 

By the way accomplishing university degrees isn't just about money but also about having a comfortable job. Those other jobs you mentioned are very hard and require alot of black work and even physical difficulty.

Edited March 2, 2016 by Eldad Eshel

[dimreepr]

Competition by itself can even be positive, but when it comes to survival it is something different. Especially for young kids who barely started their lives. Kids are forced with heavy competition, which in this case and other cases is ugly and not positive at all.

 

By the way accomplishing university degrees isn't just about money but also about having a comfortable job. Those other jobs you mentioned are very hard and require alot of black work and even physical difficulty.

 

 

Bolded mine:

 

When it comes to survival it’s everything, competition is fundamental to humans/animals be it in the wild or society; there is no ethical debate to be had, it just is.

[Eldad Eshel]

 

 

Bolded mine:

 

When it comes to survival it’s everything, competition is fundamental to humans/animals be it in the wild or society; there is no ethical debate to be had, it just is.

I think humanity has come to a level where it is evolved enough to show more compassion to one another, and reduce the stress in everyone's life. It is evolved enough to reduce the competitiveness, and form a more sophisticated society than that of the wildlife jungle.

[dimreepr]

I think humanity has come to a level where it is evolved enough to show more compassion to one another, and reduce the stress in everyone's life. It is evolved enough to reduce the competitiveness, and form a more sophisticated society than that of the wildlife jungle.

 

 

You seem to think society is, somehow, different to the jungle and that humans are different to other animals and that competition eliminates compassion; you’re wrong on all counts, for instance, my best friend and I compete on many different levels (our introduction, in school, resulted in a physical fight) but if either of us were in jeopardy we would both battle anyone to save the other.

[Phi for All]

Eldad, I have to say, many of your topics are valid, but the way you argue for them, with only emotional justifications instead of reasoned, well-thought-out, supported arguments with a perspective rooted in reality, makes it seem like you're saying, "Oh, I didn't bother to get good grades in school, so let's change the way the system judges me". Thus you get all kinds of pushback and drama about your opinions. Is that what you're really after, even when it's so negative?

 

Your phrases: "very stressful", "heavy competition", "more progressed age", very hard". Where is the clarity here? Where is the detail? These are hand-waving words, with no support and no way to judge your arguments with any accuracy or meaning.

 

You're being really vague with all the compassion and understanding emoteology (a word I made up just for you, to describe your emotions-only based ideology). Has anyone mentioned before that this is a science site, and we all prefer more reasoning and critical thinking in our discussions? It really doesn't take that much longer to research a bit of reality to support yourself, and turn a mere opinion into an argument we can respect because it has some support.

 

Sorry, but I want to help you if you want to do more than garner bad rep and shaking heads here. If that's what you want, you won't last. I think you can learn a great deal here, but something keeps you from taking anything on board that disagrees with your ideology, and I think it's because you think too emotionally and don't give reason much of a chance.

[Strange]

I think there should be a better way than tests, exams and academic achievement on paper. I have no idea what system could replace the general system that seems to be used across the globe. I am just saying that there should be a better way.

 

Although I did well at school and college (and even went on to do a Masters) I still have no qualifications beyond those I got at school. This has never been a problem with regard to employment (or even going back to university) and getting some very interesting (and well paid) jobs.

[Sirona]

Although I did well at school and college (and even went on to do a Masters) I still have no qualifications beyond those I got at school. This has never been a problem with regard to employment (or even going back to university) and getting some very interesting (and well paid) jobs.

There are few jobs where a Masters or PhD is a requirement or useful. In some cases it makes employers reluctant to employ you because you're over qualified and will need to be on a higher pay scale. In most careers work experience combined with a solid work ethic is more important. I think self directed learning is undervalued too, there is a wealth of knowledge online as well as lots of free courses, you might not get a qualification out of it, but it's a good way to learn new skills or improve on existing ones. University is very expensive in Australia and being a student here is difficult, so I wouldn't recommend studying anymore than you need to formally.

[Lyudmilascience]

I think humanity has come to a level where it is evolved enough to show more compassion to one another, and reduce the stress in everyone's life. It is evolved enough to reduce the competitiveness, and form a more sophisticated society than that of the wildlife jungle.

I think that competition is a good thing for the most part, it leads to better faster results in discoveries inventions and improvements on inventions. it also allows us to choose what we want,well the free market does, the more competitive a company or business is the more likely they want to have good service for an affordable price and they stay in buisness. it can get out of hand like the olympics where people have to take creatine and other steroids to in hence there performance but just having a competition it not the reason they are doing this there can be a more moral and safe Olympics if people did not put so much pressure on them. the point of competitions is not to show compassion, the only compassion i think competitions should have is for you to not do something against the rules or hurt anyone in the competition. and stress is somewhat objective, some people have alot of it and some people none. i had no stress speaking publicly because i love to talk and am not worried about making mistakes but many people had alot of stress but even stress can be good, they will learn how to speak in public without it they wont go out and try to speak in public. of course you dont want to cause extra stress but i think humanity is moral enough to not make peoples lives harder in the us.

[Sammanta]

The Society meets on Sunday mornings, provides guinea pigs for your favorite pot luck dishes, and a network of friends for when you are in need. It also has counselors and ceremonies for life transitions such as birth, mating and death. It provides parents with help in bringing up their children to be civilized human beings. For atheists, agnostics and the independent thinker of a spiritual bent, shouldn't it be considered a valid alternative to joining a religion you can't really embrace wholeheartedly?

lupinesidhe, the primary difference is the intellectual and spiritual freedom, the freedom of interpretation. I consider that a very critical difference. Some members believe in one or more gods in some form or other, and some do not. It's a very accepting group, although the one thing it is NOT accepting about is unethical (i.e., unjust, uncaring, intolerant) behavior.

Update 2: I have to admit that I'm in a unique position here, as the Ethical Society of St. Louis is one of the largest, maybe even the largest in the country. But there's also an on-line society, eswow.org which is "Ethical Society Without Walls."