Could the energy associated with a black hole in the following article be the dark energy associated with a Universal black hole?

[Mordred]

I've followed the dark flow papers for several years I have come across any peer review ie Arxiv paper that shows a universal ie not local group.

 

Feel free to provide one outside of 100 Mpc in distance. Not that it really matters our universe is 28.3 Gpc. In diameter. Show a flow on that scale. Not within a measly 100 to 200 Mpc

 

You won't find it from CMB data,

 

 

Either way a flow from an outjet from some never discovered made up universal blackhole would have other characteristics.

 

Thermodynamic signatures for one. This would have a center oriented hot spot due to higher energy/density from the jets.

 

Why don't we see this

[miketempleton]

There is directionality to matter in the Universe which has yet to be explained.

 

http://www.icrar.org/home/hidden-galaxies

 

"We dont actually understand whats causing this gravitational acceleration on the Milky Way or where its coming from, he said."

 

A Universal black hole powering the Universal jet we exist in explains the directionality and dark energy.

 

The CMBR is likely caused by the Universal black hole continuously emitting energy into the Universal jet.

Edited March 13, 2016 by miketempleton

[Mordred]

You haven't shown any proof of that. Just because something might be drawing the Milky way behind the great attractor. (Of course there is something behind). Does not mean the ENTIRE universe of 28 Gpc is affected.

That last link also specifies hidden galaxies not a universal flow.

 

You also didn't answer my question on the temperature aspect

 

 

Seems to me your reading the parts you want to read, but ignoring the counter arguments on several of the links you provided.

(Better counter argument papers do exist)

Edited March 13, 2016 by Mordred

[miketempleton]

The entire Universe is affected by dark energy. Dark energy is the energy associated with the Universal black hole powering the Universal polar jet we exist in. The dark energy is responsible for the directionality of the matter in the universe, the acceleration of the matter outward and away from us, and the directional acceleration of the Milky Way.

Edited March 13, 2016 by miketempleton

[swansont]

!

Moderator Note

 

You need to come up with some evidence or a way to test your idea, or better yet, and actual model of how this works. Repeating your claims is insufficient.

 

Moved to speculations. Please review the guidelines for posting here

http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/86720-guidelines-for-participating-in-speculations-discussions/

 

 

[miketempleton]

You need to come up with some evidence or a way to test your idea, or better yet, and actual model of how this works. Repeating your claims is insufficient.

 

Moved to speculations. Please review the guidelines for posting here

http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/86720-guidelines-for-participating-in-speculations-discussions/

'Was the universe born spinning?'

http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2011/jul/25/was-the-universe-born-spinning

"The universe was born spinning and continues to do so around a preferred axis"

Our Universe spins around a preferred axis because a Universal black hole is powering the Universal polar jet we exist in.

'Mysterious Cosmic 'Dark Flow' Tracked Deeper into Universe'

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/news/releases/2010/10-023.html

"The clusters appear to be moving along a line extending from our solar system toward Centaurus/Hydra, but the direction of this motion is less certain. Evidence indicates that the clusters are headed outward along this path, away from Earth, but the team cannot yet rule out the opposite flow. "We detect motion along this axis, but right now our data cannot state as strongly as we'd like whether the clusters are coming or going," Kashlinsky said."

The clusters are headed along this axis because a Universal black hole is powering the Universal jet we exist in.

There is also evidence in the article in the original post. What is occurring at the level of a supermassive black hole is a smaller version of what is occuring at the Universal level. Just as matter is moving outward and far away from the galaxy hosting the black hole, that is exactly what is occurring at the larger Universal level.

Edited March 13, 2016 by miketempleton

[swansont]

Popular science articles tend to over-reach with the claims in them. You need to pay special attention to phrases like "if correct" or "if confirmed", or "evidence suggests" because they tend to run with preliminary results that have not been corroborated. Such articles do not represent the mainstream, accepted science. They are often one response to an unanswered question.

 

Even in your quote above we see "evidence indicates", "cannot yet rule out" and "our data cannot state strongly". Hallmarks of preliminary work.

 

 

 

Telling you to follow the rules of the board was not the opening offer in a negotiation.

[miketempleton]

The evidence of directionality of matter in the Universe is past the preliminary work phase. Most physicists understand there is directionality to matter in the Universe that they do not yet understand what is causing it.

 

http://www.icrar.org/home/hidden-galaxies

 

"We dont actually understand whats causing this gravitational acceleration on the Milky Way or where its coming from, he said."

 

I am suggesting that dark energy is responsible for the directionality of the matter. I am saying that this is evidence of the Universal black hole powering the Universal polar jet we exist in. The directionality is caused by the (dark) energy associated with the Universal black hole powering the Universal jet we exist in. This is what is occurring with the supermassive black hole referred to in the original post. Our Universe is a larger version of what is occurring in terms of the energy being emitted outward and far beyond the extent of the galaxy hosting the supermassive black hole.

 

The directionality of matter in the Universe, which the cause of is yet to be understood, is the evidence we are in a Universal jet powered by a Universal black hole.

Edited March 13, 2016 by miketempleton

[Strange]

I am saying that this is evidence of the Universal black hole powering the Universal polar jet we exist in.

 

Then you should be able to provide some evidence of the radiation associated with polar jets - which are extremely visible. (The fact that the one you claim is not visible is good evidence that it doesn't exist.)

 

Alternatively, you should be able to show the mathematical predictions from your model and how well they match the evidence for dark energy.

 

As you can do neither of these, I think we can dismiss your idea.

 

(And simply saying the same thing repeatedly doesn't make it any more plausible.)

[miketempleton]

 

Then you should be able to provide some evidence of the radiation associated with polar jets - which are extremely visible. (The fact that the one you claim is not visible is good evidence that it doesn't exist.)

 

The evidence is the CMBR. The CMBR is part of the ongoing process of (dark) energy being emitted by the Universal black hole powering the Universal jet we exist in.

 

 

 

Alternatively, you should be able to show the mathematical predictions from your model and how well they match the evidence for dark energy.

 

The mathematical predictions associated with what is reported in the original post associated with the supermassive black hole should be able to be expanded to a Universal black hole. One difference is that the Universal black hole is able to provide enough energy to overwhelm the, lack of, gravitational interaction between the superclusters.

[Strange]

The evidence is the CMBR. The CMBR is part of the ongoing process of (dark) energy being emitted by the Universal black hole powering the Universal jet we exist in.

 

The CMB is a black body spectrum. Polar jets are not. Your theory fails.

 

 

The mathematical predictions associated with what is reported in the original post associated with the supermassive black hole should be able to be expanded to a Universal black hole.

 

Go on then.

[miketempleton]

 

The CMB is a black body spectrum. Polar jets are not. Your theory fails."

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_body

 

"A black body is an idealized physical body that absorbs all incident electromagnetic radiation"

 

http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Black_holes_banish_matter_into_cosmic_voids_999.html

 

"This energy is delivered to the surrounding gas, and leads to large outflows of matter, which stretch for hundreds of thousands of light years from the black holes, reaching far beyond the extent of their host galaxies."

 

The energy is delivered to the surrounding gas electromagnetically.

[Strange]

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_body

 

"A black body is an idealized physical body that absorbs all incident electromagnetic radiation"

 

Yes, I know that.

 

Polar jets are not black bodies.

 

 

 

 

http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Black_holes_banish_matter_into_cosmic_voids_999.html

 

"This energy is delivered to the surrounding gas, and leads to large outflows of matter, which stretch for hundreds of thousands of light years from the black holes, reaching far beyond the extent of their host galaxies."

 

The energy is delivered to the surrounding gas electromagnetically.

 

Are related t the poster who goes by the name of mpc775 (or similar)? Because he just posted exactly the same thing repeatedly with random, barely relevant quotes. It is like you are twins.

[miketempleton]

 

Yes, I know that.

 

Polar jets are not black bodies.

 

http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Black_holes_banish_matter_into_cosmic_voids_999.html

 

"This energy is delivered to the surrounding gas, and leads to large outflows of matter, which stretch for hundreds of thousands of light years from the black holes, reaching far beyond the extent of their host galaxies."

The energy is delivered to the surrounding gas electromagnetically.

The energy being delivered to the gas causing it to move outward and away from the supermassive black hole is the same mechanism by which the Universal black hole delivers energy to the superclusters.

Edited March 13, 2016 by miketempleton

[swansont]

You know, this topic and your posting style strike me as familiar. Is it possible you posted here before under another name?

[Mordred]

No actually the CMB evidence provides clear evidence there is no dark flow, or jets. Any directional flow would show up easily on the CMB data as a flow of hot to colder regions.

 

There is zero evidence of such a flow.

[miketempleton]

You know, this topic and your posting style strike me as familiar. Is it possible you posted here before under another name?

 

I don't think I have ever posted on this forum about a Universal black hole powering a Universal polar jet.

No actually the CMB evidence provides clear evidence there is no dark flow, or jets. Any directional flow would show up easily on the CMB data as a flow of hot to colder regions.

 

There is zero evidence of such a flow.

 

The evidence of the dark flow is in the dark flow.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_flow

 

The dark flow is caused by the energy associated with a Universal black hole being delivered to the matter in the Universe, just as the energy of a supermassive black hole is delivered to the gas.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_microwave_background#Low_multipoles_and_other_anomalies

 

"With the increasingly precise data provided by WMAP, there have been a number of claims that the CMB exhibits anomalies, such as very large scale anisotropies, anomalous alignments, and non-Gaussian distributions.^{[109][110][111][112]} The most longstanding of these is the low-l multipole controversy. Even in the COBE map, it was observed that the quadrupole (l = 2, spherical harmonic) has a low amplitude compared to the predictions of the Big Bang. In particular, the quadrupole and octupole (l = 3) modes appear to have an unexplained alignment with each other and with both the ecliptic plane and equinoxes,^{[113][114][115]} an alignment sometimes referred to as the axis of evil.^[110] A number of groups have suggested that this could be the signature of new physics at the greatest observable scales; other groups suspect systematic errors in the data."

 

The new physics is understanding there is a Universal black hole powering the Universal polar jet we exist in.

Edited March 13, 2016 by miketempleton

[Phi for All]

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_flow

 

!

Moderator Note

This link takes us to this discussion. Please fix it.

[miketempleton]

 

This link takes us to this discussion. Please fix it.

 

Fixed.

[Mordred]

No actually it doesn't.

 

Constraints on the birth of the universe and origin of cosmic dark flow

 

http://arxiv.org/abs/1508.01214

 

here is a recent CMB data analysis.

"No dark flow was identified for distances

greater than about 100 h

−1 Mpc"

 

Which amounts to localized anisotropy

[miketempleton]

No actually it doesn't.

Constraints on the birth of the universe and origin of cosmic dark flow

http://arxiv.org/abs/1508.01214

here is a recent CMB data analysis. "No dark flow was identified for distances

greater than about 100 h

−1 Mpc"

Which amounts to localized anisotropy

Which some are theorizing as caused by external universes to our universe which is incorrect.

 

The flow of the matter is caused by the Universal black hole powering the Universal jet we exist in.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_microwave_background#Low_multipoles_and_other_anomalies

 

"With the increasingly precise data provided by WMAP, there have been a number of claims that the CMB exhibits anomalies, such as very large scale anisotropies, anomalous alignments, and non-Gaussian distributions.[109][110][111][112] The most longstanding of these is the low-l multipole controversy. Even in the COBE map, it was observed that the quadrupole (l = 2, spherical harmonic) has a low amplitude compared to the predictions of the Big Bang. In particular, the quadrupole and octupole (l = 3) modes appear to have an unexplained alignment with each other and with both the ecliptic plane and equinoxes,[113][114][115] an alignment sometimes referred to as the axis of evil.[110] A number of groups have suggested that this could be the signature of new physics at the greatest observable scales; other groups suspect systematic errors in the data."

 

The new physics is understanding there is a Universal black hole powering the Universal polar jet we exist in.

Edited March 13, 2016 by miketempleton

[Mordred]

No what your proposing is not in the evidence.

 

I've asked you to provide a peer review showing dark flow beyond a localized influence.

 

You have yet to do so.

 

As I've stated the dark flow evidence is less than 200 Mpc of the Milky way.

 

No evidence of any CMB dataset shows peculiar velocities in the CMB data beyond that range. In point of detail the longest range paper I've studied range (200 Mpc ) was further constrained by CMB data to less than 100 Mpc.

 

Here is a further constraint paper.

 

http://arxiv.org/abs/1303.5090

 

thus far you haven't shown any evidence of a flow non localized.

 

Instead you've been repeatedly posting the same links (all pop media I count wiki as pop media as it isn't written by professional cosmologists)

What your doing is ignoring observational evidence countering your argument.

The Planck data study was independent of dark flow theory, and chose to conduct a study to check. It isn't a theory into itself. It is merely a dataset study looking to see if the dark flow theory has validity.

 

The Planck data found no universal flow.

Edited March 13, 2016 by Mordred

[miketempleton]

http://www.cosmosup.com/dark-flow-from-other-universe-engulfing-galaxy-clusters/

 

"We dont actually understand whats causing this gravitational acceleration on the Milky Way or where its coming from, he said."

 

They don't understand what is causing the directionality of the Milky Way because they have yet to figure out a Universal black hole is powering the Universal polar jet we exist in.

[Mordred]

You keep missing the key detail.

 

 

The Milky way movement is NOTHING on a universal scale. 100 Mpc is miniscule compared to 23 Gpc.

 

Baryonic matter accounts for less than three % the energy budget mass distribution.

 

Comparing the movement of the Universe to the minor movement of the Milky way us like saying the population of New York is statistically the population of the entire Earth per capita.

 

Just because the Milky way is moving toward some mass DOES NOT MEAN the entire universe does

 

Basing your assertions on this false claim (misunderstanding by ignoring size scales) will get you no where

[miketempleton]

You keep missing the key detail.

 

Some physicists are hypothesizing Universes external to our Universe in order to explain the directionality of the matter in our Universe. As of now the mass in our Universe cannot account for it.

 

A Universal black hole powering the Universal polar jet we exist in explains the directionality.