Could the energy associated with a black hole in the following article be the dark energy associated with a Universal black hole?

[swansont]

You keep missing the key detail.

 

Some physicists are hypothesizing Universes external to our Universe in order to explain the directionality of the matter in our Universe. As of now the mass in our Universe cannot account for it.

 

A Universal black hole powering the Universal polar jet we exist in explains the directionality.

 

 

 

Key word here being "hypothesizing". So, what predictions can you make using your hypothesis, that it could be checked?

[miketempleton]

Key word here being "hypothesizing". So, what predictions can you make using your hypothesis, that it could be checked?

 

Based on our Universe rotating around a preferred axis and for there to be directionality of matter along that axis we should be able to see a preferred timeline. As long as we can see far enough along the axis we should be able to determine that 'stuff' is younger at one end than it is at the other. The 'stuff' approaching us should be younger than the 'stuff' moving away from us. From this we should be able to determine where the Universal black hole is located even though it is far beyond our visible Universe.

Was the universe born spinning?

"The universe was born spinning and continues to do so around a preferred axis"

Mysterious Cosmic 'Dark Flow' Tracked Deeper into Universe

"The clusters appear to be moving along a line extending from our solar system toward Centaurus/Hydra, but the direction of this motion is less certain. Evidence indicates that the clusters are headed outward along this path, away from Earth, but the team cannot yet rule out the opposite flow. "We detect motion along this axis, but right now our data cannot state as strongly as we'd like whether the clusters are coming or going," Kashlinsky said."

Edited March 13, 2016 by miketempleton

[swansont]

 

Based on our Universe rotating around a preferred axis and for there to be directionality of matter along that axis we should be able to see a preferred timeline. As long as we can see far enough along the axis we should be able to determine that 'stuff' is younger at one end than it is at the other. From this we should be able to determine where the Universal black hole is located even if it is far beyond our visible Universe.

Was the universe born spinning?

"The universe was born spinning and continues to do so around a preferred axis"

Mysterious Cosmic 'Dark Flow' Tracked Deeper into Universe

"The clusters appear to be moving along a line extending from our solar system toward Centaurus/Hydra, but the direction of this motion is less certain. Evidence indicates that the clusters are headed outward along this path, away from Earth, but the team cannot yet rule out the opposite flow. "We detect motion along this axis, but right now our data cannot state as strongly as we'd like whether the clusters are coming or going," Kashlinsky said."

 

 

We've already been over this — that's a preliminary result, and you're quoting from a pop-sci article. You also seem to be jumping from one claim to another, without making a connection.

 

Repeating your claim without modification to criticism is a sign that there is nothing more to discuss. Do you have substantive predictions, or a model, or actual data to present?

[miketempleton]

 

 

We've already been over this — that's a preliminary result, and you're quoting from a pop-sci article. You also seem to be jumping from one claim to another, without making a connection.

 

Repeating your claim without modification to criticism is a sign that there is nothing more to discuss. Do you have substantive predictions, or a model, or actual data to present?

 

You asked for a prediction. I'm predicting that we may be able to determine where the 'stuff' in our Universe is originating from. I'm also predicting the 'stuff' approaching us along the axis should be younger than the 'stuff' moving away from us.

Edited March 13, 2016 by miketempleton

[Mordred]

Just a little advise, papers posted on Arxiv are peer reviewed. Ie professional. It's also a good place to gather datasets.

 

Though not the only one, it provides a good example of decent articles to discuss.

[miketempleton]

I read a lot of arxiv articles

[Mordred]

 

You asked for a prediction. I'm predicting that we may be able to determine where the 'stuff' in our Universe is originating from. I'm also predicting the 'stuff' approaching us along the axis should be younger than the 'stuff' moving away from us.

Both articles I posted show this isn't the case.

First off most datasets find an extremely strong agreement the the Universe does not have a preferred location or direction to expansion.

 

You might want to look at the balloon analogy. I'm seeing that you may have the wrong understanding of what observational evidence shows.

 

I suggest reading the following.

 

Even if you don't agree with tbem, they will provide the tools ie equations. As they are training articles.

 

 

http://www.phinds.com/balloonanalogy/ : A thorough write up on the balloon analogy used to describe expansion

http://tangentspace.info/docs/horizon.pdf :Inflation and the Cosmological Horizon by Brian Powell

http://arxiv.org/abs/1304.4446 :"What we have leaned from Observational Cosmology." -A handy write up on observational cosmology in accordance with the LambdaCDM model.

http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0310808 :"Expanding Confusion: common misconceptions of cosmological horizons and the superluminal expansion of the Universe" Lineweaver and Davies

http://www.mso.anu.edu.au/~charley/papers/LineweaverDavisSciAm.pdf: "Misconceptions about the Big bang" also Lineweaver and Davies

http://arxiv.org/abs/1002.3966 "why the prejudice against a constant"

http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0508052 "In an expanding universe, what doesn't expand? Richard H. Price, Joseph D. Romano

I read a lot of arxiv articles

Then you should be able to find good material to help support your case.

[miketempleton]

The balloon analogy is terrible in terms of the expansion of space itself. The balloon expands in three dimensional space.

Edited March 13, 2016 by miketempleton

[Mordred]

True but the math relations to a manifold are there.

 

Cartesian to polar coordinate change of a homogeneous and isotropic expansion.

 

You will need a modification to the LCDM metric to correlate rotation and a preferred direction.

 

However if you understand the FLRW metric it has the flexibility

 

Here is one I wrote on universe geometry

 

http://cosmology101.wikidot.com/universe-geometry

 

Page two is the math details.

http://cosmology101.wikidot.com/geometry-flrw-metric/

Edited March 13, 2016 by Mordred

[miketempleton]

The expansion is not isotropic.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_microwave_background#Low_multipoles_and_other_anomalies

 

"With the increasingly precise data provided by WMAP, there have been a number of claims that the CMB exhibits anomalies, such as very large scale anisotropies, anomalous alignments, and non-Gaussian distributions.[109][110][111][112] The most longstanding of these is the low-l multipole controversy. Even in the COBE map, it was observed that the quadrupole (l = 2, spherical harmonic) has a low amplitude compared to the predictions of the Big Bang. In particular, the quadrupole and octupole (l = 3) modes appear to have an unexplained alignment with each other and with both the ecliptic plane and equinoxes,[113][114][115] an alignment sometimes referred to as the axis of evil.[110] A number of groups have suggested that this could be the signature of new physics at the greatest observable scales; other groups suspect systematic errors in the data."

[Mordred]

The axis of evil is another pop media hyped subject.

 

Dipole anisotropy shown in the first Planck dateset was largely calibration errors.

 

The later papers fine tuned those errors in the later Planck date set.

 

However even with that the original Planck data still found a homogeneous and isotropic in strong agreement.

Here is the 2015 datasets. The calibration corrections are in the calibration link

http://www.cosmos.esa.int/web/planck/publications

[miketempleton]

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/blogs/physics/2015/09/could-the-universe-be-lopsided/

 

"For example, starting in 2008, Alexander Kashlinsky, a researcher at NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center, and his colleagues have statistically analyzed cosmic microwave background data gathered by first the WMAP satellite and the Planck satellite to show that, in addition to their motion due to cosmic expansion, many galaxy clusters seem to be heading toward a particular direction on the sky. He dubbed this phenomenon “dark flow,” and suggested that it is evidence of a previously-unseen cosmic anisotropy known as a “tilt.” Although the mainstream astronomical community has disputed Kashlinsky’s conclusion, he has continued to gather statistical evidence for dark flow and the idea of tilted universes. ... Whether or not the universe really is “lopsided,” it is intriguing to study the rich range of solutions of Einstein’s general theory of relativity. Even if the preponderance of evidence today points to cosmic regularity, who knows when a new discovery might call that into question, and compel cosmologists to dust off alternative ideas. Such is the extraordinary flexibility of Einstein’s masterful theory: a century after its publication, physicists are still exploring its possibilities."

 

The follow arxiv article is linked to in the above article.

 

'Probing the Dark Flow signal in WMAP 9 yr and PLANCK cosmic microwave background maps'

http://arxiv.org/abs/1411.4180

 

Our Universe is lopsided because we are in a Universal jet powered by a Universal black hole.

[swansont]

 

Our Universe is lopsided because we are in a Universal jet powered by a Universal black hole.

 

 

!

Moderator Note

 

Even if one provisionally accepts that the universe is "lopsided", you need to explain how that is evidence of a universal black hole.

 

But first, you need to define what a universal black hole is. You were asked, but never answered. You've used the phrase at least 33 times thus far — more times than you have posts.

 

If you don't do this, in your very next post, this thread will be closed.

 

[miketempleton]

Even if one provisionally accepts that the universe is "lopsided", you need to explain how that is evidence of a universal black hole.

 

But first, you need to define what a universal black hole is. You were asked, but never answered. You've used the phrase at least 33 times thus far — more times than you have posts.

 

If you don't do this, in your very next post, this thread will be closed.

 

A Universal black hole is a larger version of the supermassive black holes described in the article in the original post.

[swansont]

A Universal black hole is a larger version of the supermassive black holes described in the article in the original post.

 

 

So it's just a really big black hole.

 

Where is it? What orbits this body that exerts a tremendous amount of gravity? It should be easy to spot. And where are these jets you keep talking about?

[miketempleton]

So it's just a really big black hole.

Yes.

 

What orbits this body that exerts a tremendous amount of gravity?

There's probably a Universal accretion disk.

 

It should be easy to spot.

Not if it is beyond our visible Universe.

 

And where are these jets you keep talking about?

Was the universe born spinning?

 

The universe was born spinning and continues to do so around a preferred axis

We are in the jet. The Universe spins about the preferred axis of the jet we exist in.

 

Mysterious Cosmic 'Dark Flow' Tracked Deeper into Universe

 

The clusters appear to be moving along a line extending from our solar system toward Centaurus/Hydra, but the direction of this motion is less certain. Evidence indicates that the clusters are headed outward along this path, away from Earth, but the team cannot yet rule out the opposite flow. "We detect motion along this axis, but right now our data cannot state as strongly as we'd like whether the clusters are coming or going," Kashlinsky said.

The clusters are moving along the axis of the Universal jet we exist in.

 

Where is [the Universal black hole]?

We're not even sure which way the matter is moving along the axis. That needs to be determined first. Once the direction of the matter moving along the axis is known where the Universal black hole exists should be able to be calculated by going back against the direction of travel of the matter to determine where the Universal black hole is. Edited March 14, 2016 by miketempleton

[swansont]

 

We're not even sure which way the matter is moving along the axis.

 

 

Another way of saying that is that there is not enough evidence to confirm there is a direction of motion.

 

But if there was this super-ultra-massive black hole, you should have rotations like we see in galaxies. If we're in the jet, though, we shouldn't be rotating (much), since these jets are axial. Motion owing to the jet should be perpendicular to the rotation. I don't see anything like this in your analysis, mainly because (AFAICT) you have presented no analysis. Just repetition of your claims.

 

You need to step up your game.

[miketempleton]

Another way of saying that is that there is not enough evidence to confirm there is a direction of motion.

Incorrect. From the article:

 

We detect motion along this axis, but right now our data cannot state as strongly as we'd like whether the clusters are coming or going," Kashlinsky said.

But if there was this super-ultra-massive black hole, you should have rotations like we see in galaxies. If we're in the jet, though, we shouldn't be rotating (much), since these jets are axial. Motion owing to the jet should be perpendicular to the rotation. I don't see anything like this in your analysis, mainly because (AFAICT) you have presented no analysis. Just repetition of your claims.

"The universe was born spinning and continues to do so around a preferred axis" means the Universe has a preferred axis of rotation.

Edited March 14, 2016 by miketempleton

[swansont]

I don't think I have ever posted on this forum about a Universal black hole powering a Universal polar jet.

 

 

That wasn't what I asked. Have you posted here at all under another user name?

[miketempleton]

That wasn't what I asked. Have you posted here at all under another user name?

I don't think so.

[swansont]

Incorrect. From the article:

 

 

 

"The universe was born spinning and continues to do so around a preferred axis" means the Universe has a preferred axis of rotation.

 

 

You highlighted the wrong part.

 

"We detect motion along this axis, but right now our data cannot state as strongly as we'd like whether the clusters are coming or going,"

 

That reads like "we have some data, but the error bars are bigger and can't exclude zero"

 

Preferred axis of rotation or no (that's still not conclusive, though you keep ignoring that), if we are in the jet, it means we are on or very close to the axis. And says nothing about a model for how al this is supposed to work.

I don't think so.

 

Really. Because the only other instance of "universal jet" I read from a Google search is from a user named mpc755

(such as http://www.overunity.com/13594/aether-displacement/25/wap2/)

[miketempleton]

You highlighted the wrong part.

 

"We detect motion along this axis, but right now our data cannot state as strongly as we'd like whether the clusters are coming or going,"

 

That reads like "we have some data, but the error bars are bigger and can't exclude zero"

You said, "Another way of saying that is that there is not enough evidence to confirm there is a direction of motion.".

 

There is enough evidence to confirm there is a direction of motion, just not enough to determine which way.

 

'Probing the Dark Flow signal in WMAP 9 yr and PLANCK cosmic microwave background maps'

http://arxiv.org/abs/1411.4180

 

Preferred axis of rotation or no (that's still not conclusive, though you keep ignoring that), if we are in the jet, it means we are on or very close to the axis. And says nothing about a model for how al this is supposed to work.

It's works just as described in the article in the original post.

 

Really. Because the only other instance of "universal jet" I read from a Google search is from a user named mpc755

(such as http://www.overunity.com/13594/aether-displacement/25/wap2/)

That's where I got the idea from.

Edited March 14, 2016 by miketempleton

[Mordred]

While the arxiv you posted is entertaining. It isn't conclusive, there are tons of studies that don't agree with the paper above. However even if plausible, the paper doesn't say anything about a rotation.

 

You have to remember the jets idea for our universe is yours.

 

A direction of flow doesn't mean a universe rotation, so your going to need to show this.

This isn't something to leap frog over. The paper you have has some of the metric tools, so should assist in modelling your idea.

 

No model escapes the necessary math step.

 

The other factor you will need is "Why we don't see a temperature distribution that corresponds to jets?." In the CMB or in the spectronomy surveys.

Even with the dipole of evil model conjectures, that dark flow remodelled to when the Planck 2013 papers were released. He specifies using the 2013 numbers.

 

The temperature anisotropy he finds do not correspond to a temperature distribution from jets. The variation in temperature is less than 1/1000 of a Kelvin between hot and cold regions. Jets would be hotter from a centre radiating outward. This isn't the dynamic discussed in the articles you've posted. Nor does the metric in the dark flow data suggesting jets from a BH.

 

So it's not the metrics you will need, if your serious about pursuing your model. Your going to need to understand the math and develop the metrics for jets, as well as a universe rotation.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Mordred

[swansont]

Since jets are along the rotation axis, the motion is perpendicular. So if we don't know the direction of motion, it's not evidence of rotation or a jet. There's not enough info from the description to conclude that.

That's where I got the idea from.

 

He's a crackpot and banned from here for not following the rules. Take care you do not emulate him too closely.

[imatfaal]

!

Moderator Note

 

Please note that miketempleton has now been banned as a sockpuppet of mpc755 - apologies for those other members who have invested time in the thread