Helium from balloons?

[Sorsor_7]

I am starting a series on YouTube of extracting the elements. I already know what im going to do for Hydrogen (electrolysis) but im having a harder time with Helium. I know that pure Helium would suffocate you so they mix it with Oxygen in balloons so if people breath it in they wont die. I thought of somehow separating the mixture by density: helium is lighter than air so it rises, but oxygen makes up air but nitrogen makes up the majority of air and nitrogen is more dense than oxygen. I would like it if someone could tell me how to separate this mixture so i can have a pure sample of helium for my collection

[Klaynos]

I would do something interesting like:

 

Put helium/oxygen mix in a container that is permeable to helium but not oxygen. I'm thinking a balloon not very inflated in a box which has some openings.

 

Place balloon in vacuum chamber.

 

Pump down chamber.

 

Wait.

 

You now have a balloon with mostly oxygen and a vacuum chamber with mostly helium.

 

Not sure I've ever seen anyone try it, which is why I think it'd make a nice video...

[swansont]

I know that pure Helium would suffocate you so they mix it with Oxygen in balloons so if people breath it in they wont die.

 

 

Do you have a reference for this? I doubt this is intentional. I think it's more that balloon-grade helium isn't purified as much as lab-grade, so it's cheaper.

[John Cuthber]

I know that pure Helium would suffocate you so they mix it with Oxygen .

No they do not.

http://www.boconline.co.uk/en/sheq/safety-data-sheets/index.html

[Sorsor_7]

Thanks, I do believe it is mixed with Oxygen because I saw it in a book published on the elements by Theodore Gray. Thank you Klaynos, while i don't have the appropriate lab equipment for that yet i plan on getting some to purify my helium

I would do something interesting like:

Put helium/oxygen mix in a container that is permeable to helium but not oxygen. I'm thinking a balloon not very inflated in a box which has some openings.

Place balloon in vacuum chamber.

Pump down chamber.

Wait.

You now have a balloon with mostly oxygen and a vacuum chamber with mostly helium.

Not sure I've ever seen anyone try it, which is why I think it'd make a nice video...

Thanks! I dont have the equipment for that yet but i will get a vacuum pump soon. Im really excited. My channel is- Sor Sor Science07 if your interested (its ok if your not). I am going to do hydrogen from electrolysis, lithium from batteries, etc., I also plan to do interestng things like extracting elemental beryllium from beryllium-copper nonspark alloy wreches.

[John Cuthber]

The world doesn't mind what you believe, but there's still no deliberately added oxygen.

Why would Theodore know better than the manufacturer?

Why would the manufacturer go to the trouble of paying for the QC needed to make sure the stuff was safet to breathe wnhen it's much easier to put a label on it saying you shouldn't breather it

And, perhaps most importantly, why bother to come here for advice if you don't accept it?

[Sorsor_7]

The world doesn't mind what you believe, but there's still no deliberately added oxygen.

Why would Theodore know better than the manufacturer?

Why would the manufacturer go to the trouble of paying for the QC needed to make sure the stuff was safet to breathe wnhen it's much easier to put a label on it saying you shouldn't breather it

And, perhaps most importantly, why bother to come here for advice if you don't accept it?

I do accept it. I am going to do this i just need a vacuum chamber. And you dont think an element expert wouldn't know what he was talking about? Many people have died from breathing in balloons filled with pure helium and because of that they added additional oxygen. You drown because water displaces all the air in your lungs and you cant breath. Helium does the same thing so adding additional oxygen will reduce the chance of suffocation.

[swansont]

I do accept it. I am going to do this i just need a vacuum chamber. And you dont think an element expert wouldn't know what he was talking about? Many people have died from breathing in balloons filled with pure helium.

But how could they breathe pure helium if oxygen is always mixed in?

---

 

Some people are diluting their helium with air as a cost-saving measure, not for safety.

 

This is a statement from Balloon Time:

"Our helium is rated from 98-99.99 percent pure. However, due to global helium supply issues, we are now mixing helium with air. All tanks will have 80 percent or more helium"

[John Cuthber]

. And you dont think an element expert wouldn't know what he was talking about?

Even Homer nods. And I still think that the people at BOC who put the gas in the cylinders are more likely to be right than just about anyone else.

[StringJunky]

Even Homer nods. And I still think that the people at BOC who put the gas in the cylinders are more likely to be right than just about anyone else.

A chap who worked at BOC posted that Helium extracted from returned cylinders and other devices are recovered into large bags. Although pure at the start, the returned cylinders have unknown usage and handling history, so, may have acquired impurities. Anyway, this recovered helium is of unknown purity. Helium for balloons is used straight from the bag, so to speak. The medical/research grade can still be from the same source but undergoes purification steps.

Edited March 25, 2016 by StringJunky

[John Cuthber]

That tallies with what I have heard- balloon gas is "dirty" helium.

 

I also think there's another problem with Klaynos' suggestion.

"I would do something interesting like:

Put helium/oxygen mix in a container that is permeable to helium but not oxygen. I'm thinking a balloon not very inflated in a box which has some openings.
Place balloon in vacuum chamber.
Pump down chamber."

The next step is surely "watch expanding balloon rip box apart".

But I agree with the "Not sure I've ever seen anyone try it, which is why I think it'd make a nice video... " bit.

[StringJunky]

That tallies with what I have heard- balloon gas is "dirty" helium.

That info was from a diving forum with particular interest in rebreathers, They were discussing grades of helium and sources.

[Sorsor_7]

Do you have a reference for this? I doubt this is intentional. I think it's more that balloon-grade helium isn't purified as much as lab-grade, so it's cheaper.

I actually think you are right. I did more research and it is recycled helium so there is a bit of air/oxygen. my reference is element 2 in the book The Elements by Theodore Gray

Thanks. Know I know that the source may not have been correct. so is there a way to separate the helium from impurities in balloons? Or is there another easily accessible "things" that contain helium that I could extract it from?

Thanks. Know I know that the source may not have been correct. so is there a way to separate the helium from impurities in balloons? Or is there another easily accessible "things" that contain helium that I could extract it from?