redkiss Posted March 13, 2016 Author Share Posted March 13, 2016 (edited) redkiss QUESTIONS edearl answers L= 1 metr L= 3000 meters ( LIGO LAB ) DO WE HAVE DOOPLER ? no HOW DEEP RED we have ? 1 meter arm please compare to 3000 meters ARM please study very very slowly RIGHT DOWN CORNER http://images.tinypic.pl/i/00765/8g7j8biccn4d.jpg what will be if ROTATION is CONSTANT and I changing only distance SOURCE ----SENSOR Fact A = we have ZERO inside DARK BOX true Fact B = we have RED SHIFT inside DARK BOX false Fact C - more long arm is giving more DEEP RED false A ) true/false ? B) true/ false ? C) true/false ? Fact D - Michelson Morley saw ZERO true D) true/false Homework : I already made test .. I can show You resoults ... ( I hope You will evaluate all without real datas) I'm sorry I don't know what I measured ( I not joking ) I need help someone need explain me what see sensor ! situation A Here We have Doppler ? source >v1 .......................sensor>>v2 situation B Here We have doppler ? ....................................................................................................................................................^V2 .................................................^V1.............................................................................................^ x---------------R------------------Source-------------------------------L-------------------------------------Sensor BELOW PLEASE FIND IN BOOKS it is not my Equation ( physics) https://pl.wikipedia.../Efekt_Dopplera I want to ASK again ( above I showed You DOPPLER definition books - physics ) please use above equation to evaluate below problem ! first please do this for one arm later ...for 4 arms http://images.tinypic.pl/i/00765/8g7j8biccn4d.jpg Above equation is ok ? ( true / false ) ??? ( right down corner above ilustration I showed You example - secoundary school ) May I use this drawing and evaluate below tool (precission ) ? http://i64.tinypic.com/2isb1og.jpg if No please explain if Yes please explain Respect to what Earth is moving ? ( Important is place where the signal started ?) it is stationary point ? Edited March 13, 2016 by redkiss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdEarl Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 Light sources on the Earth do not have Doppler effect. Light from stars have Doppler effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkiss Posted March 13, 2016 Author Share Posted March 13, 2016 (edited) Ok ??? .... Ok ??? can we do this test in space Vacuum ? ( for example not exist air near Earth ) Stars ? .... can I made my own star ? .... why ? I'm sure that my own star is on the Earth and is moving with Earth I can measure electric parameters ( AMM Voltage ) I'm sure Distance me ----star left star is on the Earth right star is in space ! ( right star = doppler ) left no ???? Light sources on the Earth do not have Doppler effect. Light from stars have Doppler effect. Bulb on aifel tower = Star ? Thank You for reply ! Can I use bulb to build STAR ? it is star or not ??? Edited March 13, 2016 by redkiss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdEarl Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 (edited) Light source on Earth = no Doppler. Vacuum irrelevant. Light not on Earth, maybe Doppler, depends on motion of light and motion of Earth. Tolman surface brightness test; results confused by star light Doppler. No Doppler from light on Earth. Doppler effect diagram Another diagram Edited March 13, 2016 by EdEarl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkiss Posted March 13, 2016 Author Share Posted March 13, 2016 No Doppler from light on Earth. Light source on Earth = no Doppler. Vacuum irrelevant. Light not on Earth, maybe Doppler, depends on motion of light and motion of Earth. Tolman surface brightness test; results confused by star light Doppler. No Doppler from light on Earth. Omega = V1 / L moon for You = Doppler what about " huge planet " it is not DOPPLER ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdEarl Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 (edited) Simple Doppler: Need: 1 Light source and 2 observer 1 and 2 move same speed and direction--no Doppler. Same as not moving. 1 moves away from 2--red shift. 1 moves towards 2--blue shift. Light source on Earth cannot move away from Earth and cannot move towards Earth--no Doppler. Edited March 13, 2016 by EdEarl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkiss Posted March 13, 2016 Author Share Posted March 13, 2016 (edited) ok ???? wait please ??? Very Important Question ? ( Person on moon see RED SHIFT ) ? Yes/ No ( please not look on big planet now we speak only about moon ) Edited March 13, 2016 by redkiss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdEarl Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 Redshift means light source and observer are moving further apart. The moon is not moving away from the Earth...maybe 1cm/yr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 Actually, light sources on earth often exhibit a Doppler effect. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doppler_broadening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkiss Posted March 13, 2016 Author Share Posted March 13, 2016 situation A Here We have Doppler ? source >v1 .......................sensor>>v2 situation B Here We have doppler ? ....................................................................................................................................................^V2 .................................................^V1.............................................................................................^ x---------------R------------------Source-------------------------------L-------------------------------------Sensor BELOW PLEASE FIND IN BOOKS it is not my Equation ( physics ) https://pl.wikipedia.../Efekt_Dopplera Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdEarl Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 (edited) Actually, light sources on earth often exhibit a Doppler effect. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doppler_broadening I know John, there's all kinds of Doppler radar, but he wants to measure the speed of the Earth, rotation I think, and I'm trying to keep it simple because of the language barrier. AFAIK, he cannot measure the speed of Earth rotation, orbit, or solar orbit about the galaxy with a light source on Earth using Doppler. Edited March 13, 2016 by EdEarl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkiss Posted March 13, 2016 Author Share Posted March 13, 2016 (edited) Actually, light sources on earth often exhibit a Doppler effect. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doppler_broadening THANK YOU I RIGHT NOW STUDING NEW PROBLEM TERMODYNAMICA ( methabolism ) and DOPPLER food = fuel ( methabolism = information haw fast we exchange fuel for ENERGY ) it is 100% fresh idea even for Einstein ( RIGHT down Corner see three brothers ) http://i65.tinypic.com/kdttf5.jpg Minkowski ? please evaluate WOKR / ENERGY - I know John, there's all kinds of Doppler radar, but he wants to measure the speed of the Earth, rotation I think, and I'm trying to keep it simple because of the language barrier. AFAIK, he cannot measure the speed of Earth rotation, orbit, or solar orbit about the galaxy with a light source on Earth using Doppler. WHY ? I can not ? Mathematica ? = problem Physics = problem ? OR Einstein = problem ? I showed You all drawings I showed You equations ( books physics - DOPPLER) .... Where You see problem ??? I'm sorry I already made test I see RED I don't know WHY ?! sorry for langue but I showed Equations ! ( do You see mistake ? ) You told about Star I hope that my drawing explain that BIG planet = Small planet and moon ! ???? where is problem ??? Edited March 13, 2016 by redkiss -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdEarl Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 Probably an observation mistake. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doppler_effect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 Sorry langue problem "CROSS" DOPPLER ( please translate this in google in YOUR langue ) That is the relativistic Doppler effect. It doesn't make any difference. v=0 therefore no Doppler effect. BELOW PLEASE FIND IN BOOKS it is not my Equation ( physics) https://pl.wikipedia.../Efekt_Dopplera I want to ASK again ( above I showed You DOPPLER definition books - physics ) please use above equation to evaluate below problem ! first please do this for one arm later ...for 4 arms In that equation v = 0 therefore doppler shift = 0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdEarl Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 (edited) Michelson-Morley did not work because of no Doppler effect with v=0, and there is no such thing as aether. Edited March 13, 2016 by EdEarl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkiss Posted March 13, 2016 Author Share Posted March 13, 2016 (edited) o1 observer 1 o2 observer 2 ... ..... .... o3 o4 .... on-1 .... on ARE YOU TRYING TO TELL ME THAT DOPPLER NOT EXIST !!!!???? X1 = X1 sorry for my ilustrations "quality " but .... You are people who schould see this problem I showed You TWO different situation ( You no need be inside Planet's center to evaluate doopler ) mirror = observer ? Michelson Morley ? it is not DOPPLER ? WE NO NEED SPEAK ABOUT PLANE ( we can be in DEEP space ) zero planets only SOURCE and SENSORS (mirrors) Respect to what in my test I see RED ? Edited March 13, 2016 by redkiss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 ARE YOU TRYING TO TELL ME THAT DOPPLER NOT EXIST !!!!???? Of course not. But it only exists if the light source is moving relative to the sensor. And that is NOT true in your pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkiss Posted March 13, 2016 Author Share Posted March 13, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdEarl Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 Perhaps I misunderstand what you are trying to do. Write in your native tongue what you are trying to do and I will translate it using Google, and see what I can. I think you are trying to do the MIchelson-Morley experiment, which is a failed experiment that detected no Doppler effect, and you believe it will produce a Doppler effect for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkiss Posted March 13, 2016 Author Share Posted March 13, 2016 (edited) DID YOU READ IN BOOKS about DOPPLER ! oryginal polish ( my langue ) "Gdy źródło porusza się prostopadle do prostej łączącej odbiornik ze źródłem (α = 90°), nie zmienia swej odległości od odbiornika, pomimo tego odbiornik odbiera falę o częstotliwości innej niż nadawana: " Google tlanslator : When the source moves perpendicular to the line connecting the receiver with the source (α = 90 °) does not change its distance from the receiver, although the receiver receives the wave at a frequency other than that transmitted: Please find in English Book the same words ( English doppler it is not Polish ? ) GIVE ME INFO I MUST INFORM AUTHOR below book about mistake ! INTERNAL CONTRADICTION ! ? ( EUREKA ?!) or WE HAVE DOPPLER ? or WE HAVE ZERO ? oryginal polish ( my langue ) I marked by red RING "Gdy źródło porusza się prostopadle do prostej łączącej odbiornik ze źródłem (α = 90°), nie zmienia swej odległości od odbiornika, pomimo tego odbiornik odbiera falę o częstotliwości innej niż nadawana: " Edited March 13, 2016 by redkiss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 oryginal polish ( my langue ) "Gdy źródło porusza się prostopadle do prostej łączącej odbiornik ze źródłem (α = 90°), nie zmienia swej odległości od odbiornika, pomimo tego odbiornik odbiera falę o częstotliwości innej niż nadawana: " Google tlanslator : When the source moves perpendicular to the line connecting the receiver with the source (α = 90 °) does not change its distance from the receiver, although the receiver receives the wave at a frequency other than that transmitted: But the source is NOT moving with respect to the receiver. There is NO movement. The velocity is ZERO Therefore, there is NO Doppler effect. Ale źródło nie jest w ruchu w stosunku do odbiornika. Nie ma ruchu . Prędkość jest równa zero Dlatego też, nie ma efektu Dopplera . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkiss Posted March 13, 2016 Author Share Posted March 13, 2016 sorry for English please help me TRANSLATE this paragraph ! ? it is key to solve problem ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 The Google translation looks perfect. The problem is your understanding, not the translation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relativistic_Doppler_effect#Transverse_Doppler_effect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdEarl Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 What paper is that from? Taking a sentence from a paper tells me nothing. He said again, there is no Doppler produced according to your pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkiss Posted March 13, 2016 Author Share Posted March 13, 2016 (edited) But the source is NOT moving with respect to the receiver. There is NO movement. The velocity is ZERO Therefore, there is NO Doppler effect. Ale źródło nie jest w ruchu w stosunku do odbiornika. Nie ma ruchu . Prędkość jest równa zero Dlatego też, nie ma efektu Dopplera . A= B = C ? (right UP CORNER below pic. ) ????? Edited March 13, 2016 by redkiss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts