Quick question, regarding rules.

[d22k]

YT's Sticky ^^ mention no threads regarding those substances (yeah i know this does, but bear with me)

 

i did a quick google, cos , Obviously, curiosity got the better of me, and i had to kno what they were.....

 

but that was pretty useless

 

one of the search results actually points back to YT's thread lol

 

looksie : http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=mozclient&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&q=HMTDAN

 

so what are they?

 

im guessing either explosives or some nasty toxin, nerve gas etc

 

just to reiterate, im not looking for any specifics, or in ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM information or links pertaining to the composition or production methods of whatever the hell they are...

 

i just wanna know WHAT they are

 

 

cheers

[BenSon]

They are primarey explosives, very sensitive and very nasty Personally i would never mess with them....

 

~Scott

[d22k]

ah ok, thanks

[Silencer]

MEK = methyl ethyl ketone

HMTD = hexamethylene triperoxide diamine

TCAP = tricyclic acetone peroxide

[d22k]

cool, well now i know what not to do

 

he he

[5614]

They are primarey explosives, very sensitive and very nasty

 

so what, is it just like nitrogen triiodide but a lot more explosive and dangerous?

 

Also is this like army grade explosives or is it just potential terrorist stuff that you could in theory make at home?

(I'm not going to ask how to... I know the rule!)

[Skye]

They aren't the most powerful, but they are pretty unstable and not great to play with.

[5614]

Why is it that everyone (or quite a lot of) people think that NI3 is great fun to play with but yet these chems aren't??? surely with the correct safety precautions a big bang is lots of fun?

 

... obviously I don't know the fulll story!

[jdurg]

Because NI3 is so inherently unstable that you really can't create any 'terroristic' compositions with it. It has to be made where you plan on detonating it and cannot be transported at all. With the other compounds mentioned above, they are more stable than NI3 and can be made in much larger quantities and transported around. Therefore, you could make it at home, take it someplace else and then detonate it. As a result, it is more of a danger to society than NI3 is and has more sinister uses than the typical 'wow, that's cool' of NI3.

[Silencer]

Also, there is more of a chance of hurting yourself when making them.

 

For example, NI3 is pretty stable when wet, and the only real procaution you need to take is to not get near it when dry/drying. However, if you are making AP and the temperature rises too high, you will be making the dicyclic form and likely severly hurt/kill yourself. (And you need to stir it at that point, so it's not like you could be in the other room when it goes off. You'll have your hand right on it and you'll be standing right in front of a beaker ready to tear your body to shreds when it explodes).

[d22k]

sounds like fun

[budullewraagh]

mek isnt dangerous at all... mekp is:\

 

btw, jdurg, we we cant talk about armstrong's or tcap and they're incredibly unstable, but we can talk about nitrogen trihalides?

 

sorry, i'm just trying to find consistency

[Silencer]

^Lol. I know what you mean, but I also see where he is coming from. NI3 is more unstable, but also less practical, so in many ways safer.

[jdurg]

I'm not a moderator but I believe that the practicality of making and abusing large quantities of the nitrogen trihalides just isn't there. It takes a good deal of iodine and ammonia solution to make a good sized batch of NI3. In addition, you can't make it, store it, then transport it someplace. It must be made in the same place that it is going to be used. As a result, it's not a very good compound for people looking to vandalize things.

 

The other compounds that you've mentioned, while being very unstable, can be transported, packaged, and moved around once they've been synthesized. As a result, they can be used in very nasty ways to vandalize and cause harm to things. NI3 really can't do that. Also, the synthesis of NI3 is actually pretty safe. Until the stuff dries out, you don't have to worry about it going KABOOM. With the other stuff, as soon as it's made it can go KABOOM. Therefore, it can explode right in the lab where it is being made before it is dried and/or purified. NI3 will not explode until it is fully dried. As a result, even though NI3 is classified as a 'high explosive', it's not in the same category of 'end your life now' as the other mentioned compounds are.

 

Again, I'm not a mod here but that could possibly be some of the reasoning. You'd have to be really friggen stupid to hurt yourself making NI3, but you only need to be careless to hurt yourself making the other stuff. (Then again, if you're making the other stuff you're pretty friggen stupid. )

[YT2095]

Modifications will be made to that `sticky` that will include NI3 and gunpowder (and one or 2 others of a hazardous material nature).

 

discussion of these materials is allowed, the "How To" types are not!

 

there are a million and one places on the internet to find these synths, SFN will not be one of them.

[Dak]

gunpowder? why include that on the list?

[YT2095]

2 reasons.

 

1) there are already enough existing threads about it, repeating them is a waste of everyones time.

 

2) were any misfortune to befall a Teeny Bomber as a result of info given here, it`s not the one with boby parts missing that`s in for the high jump! it`ll be Blike.

[Dak]

tsk! if some moron blows his testicles off whilst making what he knows to be an explosive without having obtained adequate training beforehand, then i dont see why blike should be held accountable.

 

not saying that he wont be - just that he shouldnt be.

 

does this mean no talking about how to make any explosives at all?

[YT2095]

it does yes.

 

by all means if they come up in a thread as part of a warning, don`t hesitate to point this out, there are many reactions that are dangerous, without deliberately Looking for them.

 

another part of the reason is that there have been inumerable threads and posts about these synths that have been removed, simply because they were wildly inaccurate and in themselves dangerous. I refuse to keep wasting time reading them for accuracy and giving warnings to these idiots. I don`t have eyes the back of my head, Nor is this a fulltime paid job.

there are plenty other reasons too, I`ll not go into them.

 

I hope that clears it all up a little

[budullewraagh]

"NI3 is more unstable, but also less practical, so in many ways safer. :-P"

than ARMSTRONG'S and TCAP??? no way man.

 

just for clarification, are alkali and the lower alkaline earth metals, thermites, etc taboo?

 

oh, and what about toxic/carcinogenic chems?

[YT2095]

look, the problem is NOT discussing them, the problem is "teaching" how to make them.

and by "them" I include Drug synths bacterial, radioactive blah blah blah if it`s Hazardous.

 

it`s not Rocket Science, just don`t post methods to make ilegal stuff!

and where a synth to make Legal stuff involves danger you MUST point this out, and NOT use that clause for abuse, IE/ how to make Caros acid, and BTW did you know the "waste product" is TCAP?

 

because the 1`st one to try that trick gets a BAN!

 

 

there, that should have clarified things up quite nicely now

[jdurg]

Now correct me if I'm wrong, YT, but is this a good example?

 

Good: Teaching someone how to generate chlorine gas so that they can have it for an element collection, or use it in another experiment. All the while mentioning that chlorine is nasty stuff and can severely hurt you.

 

Bad: Teaching someone how to make chlorine gas and saying 'Don't worry, this stuff is harmless. It can't hurt a flea. By the way, did you know that this stuff can kill things pretty easily if you.........?"

[YT2095]

the Good part was ok, the bad part was a fairly crap example, but I`m more than sure some will rellate to it, sadly

 

as I said, it`s NOT Rocket Science, re-read the sticky, it should give a better generalisation of my meaning and will certainly negate the need for me to keep repeating myself ad nausium

[jdurg]

But we like it when you're nauseous.

[budullewraagh]

i happen to be immune to chlorine