chatlack Posted April 17, 2005 Share Posted April 17, 2005 Are the civilizations same as bacteria?? As you know when bacteria lives first its population increases fast then they spend the food and their population suddenly decreases and they all die. Are we same?? If we are not same as bacterias, we must control our population as fast as we can or humanity is in danger. Even its against capitalism we must do it for humanity. As I cannot tell it well because of my bad english , you must understand it... Think it well....??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ophiolite Posted April 17, 2005 Share Posted April 17, 2005 We have certain requirements as a 'civilised' species. Food Energy Raw materials The difference in demands on food production between an obese industrialised westerner and a healthy hunter gatherer is relatively small: it is of the close order of a factor of three. The difference in demand upon 2 and 3 are by these two different types of community are relatively large: of the order of a factor of one hundred. Technology will solve some of the shortfalls, but the long term solutions to 2 is fusion power and to 3 mining asteroids. There is sufficient capacity to produce food for perhaps twice as many people as presently inhabit the earth. So if we limited the population to that number we could get by. However, that also presupposes we have solved the energy and raw material issues. Since these will take an indeterminate time I agree with you that we should be aiming to first stabilise then reduce the global population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aardvark Posted April 17, 2005 Share Posted April 17, 2005 Are the civilizations same as bacteria?? As you know when bacteria lives first its population increases fast then they spend the food and their population suddenly decreases and they all die. Are we same?? Bacteria simply consume. Humans create. Bacteria don't have agriculture, fishing, nuclear power or any technology at all. If we are not same as bacterias' date=' we must control our population as fast as we can or humanity is in danger. Even its against capitalism we must do it for humanity. [/quote'] Fortunately humans are not the same as bacteria. This Malthusian over simplification was fashionable in the 1970's. All the evidence suggests that Boserup was right and Malthus wrong. And capitalism is the answer, not the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christ slave Posted April 17, 2005 Share Posted April 17, 2005 It is no secret that the human species will come to an end (possibly). Anyhow, death is like birth however, in that our spiritual bodies will open their eyes as we depart from the womb (the physical body), and so don't linger on this present world too much as if it had no productivity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christ slave Posted April 17, 2005 Share Posted April 17, 2005 Bacteria simply consume. Humans create. Bacteria don't have agriculture, fishing, nuclear power or any technology at all. But there are many different kinds of bacteria, and many different kinds of species. His analogy is quite a wise consideration. In fact, 2,000 years ago humans didn't have computers, but, look, now we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aardvark Posted April 17, 2005 Share Posted April 17, 2005 But there are many different kinds of bacteria, and many different kinds of species. His analogy is quite a wise consideration. As all of those bacteria are the same in that they consume but don't produce anything the analogy is not 'wise' it is wrong. In fact, 2,000 years ago humans didn't have computers, but, look, now we do. Which proves my point and disproves your own. How odd of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christ slave Posted April 17, 2005 Share Posted April 17, 2005 As all of those bacteria are the same in that they consume but don't produce anything the analogy is not 'wise' it is wrong. Which proves my point and disproves your own. How odd of you. Bacteria has the potential to evolve' date=' right? For all you know, in millions of years, bacteria could become complex species. Besides, his looking at society as a whole [i']is[/i] wise. People who do this recognize there is an ecosystem...and larger body. The flesh is made up of cells. He is equating society to some sort of bacterial virus on the earth, and that is wise, as he is able to comprehend and see the entire forest (if you get my drift). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglas Posted April 17, 2005 Share Posted April 17, 2005 We have certain requirements as a 'civilised' species. [1]Food[2]Energy[3]Raw materials. I'll add a fourth [4]Space. Solutions [1] Soylent Green [2] Fusion (as you said) [3] Asteroids and deep ocean mining [4] Build floating cities on oceans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aardvark Posted April 17, 2005 Share Posted April 17, 2005 [1] Soylent Green [ Yum, my favorite. You're making me hungry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ophiolite Posted April 17, 2005 Share Posted April 17, 2005 I'll add a fourth [4]Space. Good point. I think 'space' is implicit in the other three' date=' but it makes sense to make it explicit.If we were able to a) Colonise space (in the other sense) whether planets, artifacts or hollowed out comets and asteroids. b) Reduce the Earth's population to one billlion or less we can return much of the planet to a near 'natural' condition and live off the tourists returning to see the mother planet: the ultimate service economy [or would that be Soylent Green?'] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aardvark Posted April 17, 2005 Share Posted April 17, 2005 Bacteria has the potential to evolve, right? For all you know, in millions of years, bacteria could become complex species. In which case it would no longer be bacteria. He is equating society to some sort of bacterial virus on the earth, and that is wise, as he is able to comprehend and see the entire forest (if you get my drift). The equating that he is doing is mistaken. Society is not like bacteria because bacteria simply consume. Societies produce, they have technologies to improve and restore matters. The analogy is not accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christ slave Posted April 17, 2005 Share Posted April 17, 2005 In which case it would no longer be bacteria. The equating that he is doing is mistaken. Society is not like bacteria because bacteria simply consume. Societies produce' date=' they have technologies to improve and restore matters. The analogy is not accurate.[/quote'] It is accurate. You're just simply overrating society's "achievements". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatlack Posted April 17, 2005 Author Share Posted April 17, 2005 Produce what!?!? We only consume what we find. And dont take it as bacteria , like bacteria's population graph. This overpopulation goes only to consume , death of humanity or 1984.... Yes somebody can live but there will probably be tragedy for others. Capitalizm is not my enemy altough it is bad but it wont agree to decrease of its consumers. It want much more consumers. I think governments must sign a portocol like Kyoto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aardvark Posted April 17, 2005 Share Posted April 17, 2005 Produce what!?!? We only consume what we find. Agriculture. We produce food by cultivating the soil. And dont take it as bacteria , like bacteria's population graph. This overpopulation goes only to consume , death of humanity or 1984... Hunger and poverty are reducing around the world, even in the 3rd world. The situation is improving, not heading toward some dystopian scenario. Yes somebody can live but there will probably be tragedy for others. No, technology means more food and clean water for more people, less tragedy. Capitalizm is not my enemy altough it is bad but it wont agree to decrease of its consumers. It want much more consumers. Capitalism provides the food and cleanwater and medicines and power and housing. It wants more consumers so it has a direct interest in not letting them die in some Malthusian crisis. I think governments must sign a portocol like Kyoto. Hooray for meaningless, verbiose government proclumations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatlack Posted April 17, 2005 Author Share Posted April 17, 2005 Everything is becoming a system without an exit door. I dont try to make you understand but Im sure someone will understand. And you will see when it happen or some protocols save the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christ slave Posted April 17, 2005 Share Posted April 17, 2005 Everything is becoming a system without an exit door. I dont try to make you understand but Im sure someone will understand. And you will see when it happen or some protocols save the world. Everything attempts to unify...in fact, perhaps orgasms are modeled after the big bang (the big bang being sort of like a sexual act of God). Please note, I am in no way advocating sex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flareon Posted April 17, 2005 Share Posted April 17, 2005 How about we consider an intermediate species such as the humble ant? They possess technology and "culture," albeit in crude forms...slavery, environmental temperature control, agriculture, social hierarchy, a caste system, learned communication, strategic warfare, etc... Yes, we are far more than bacteria, but are we that much more than an ant colony? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mokele Posted April 17, 2005 Share Posted April 17, 2005 Everything dies sooner or later. Why should the human species be any different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatlack Posted April 17, 2005 Author Share Posted April 17, 2005 You got me wrong. I just say the graph of its population. It rises at first but after max. population it gets to the bottom. I say " Cant we change this graph? Or will we get lost as this graph? Also you dont know how intelligent the bacteria is. Your country is also a living thing also behaves sometimes like a stupid altough it contains very intelligent men. As a living thing a country or humanity die. But your body also contains intelligent cells and cant stop dying. So humanity will probably die. Or can we change this faith?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglas Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 Everything dies sooner or later. Why should the human species be any different?Maybe the U.S. department of Interior will put us on the endangered species list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangloss Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mokele Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 Does that mean we get 'furniture' too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Eclipse Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 Yes, we are mostly like viruses, what we do is we attach to a host [earth] and infect it with our DNA. then the infected host reproduces itself as hundreds of more viruses. We are our own worst enemy, and this is a leading cause of conflict in our world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aardvark Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 Please note' date=' I am in no way advocating sex.[/quote'] Heaven forbid! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatlack Posted April 18, 2005 Author Share Posted April 18, 2005 Then we must control population for the future of our world??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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