Memes

[Diatom]

I just finished Richard Dawkins' book "The Selfish Gene". In it he devotes and entire chapter to the concept of the meme. This is the first time I have ever heard of this concept. "The Selfish Gene" was written in 1976, I was wondering if the concept of memes has gained a lot of ground since then and is generally accepted today.

[metatron]

This is a powerful concept, that a mere thought can produce its own organizational power in a landscape of shared thought. This is a natural evolutionary step when beings emerge from the evolutionary constraints of the genome, into the realm of the primarily cognitive. This is why communication technology has become such a powerful tool. It has “flattened the world” as Thomas Freidman put it. Now the most powerful force has become the idea. Evolution was passed into a new landscape, I believe by studying certain evolutionary patterns inherent in life as a whole. We can begin to see patterns that can be applied to memes. These governing dynamics of physics, biology, and genetics also apply to the meme-space.

[ramin]

"The Selfish Gene" was written in 1976, I was wondering if the concept of memes has gained a lot of ground since then and is generally accepted today.

 

Not enough ground Diatom. You don't here much about it, though it would be good to integrate into theories of the social world to test its robustness.

 

I'm afraid this might be due to the political nature of the concept: no one wants to be blamed for "accidental" indoctrination.

 

If you are interested, we should attempt to test the theory in real life. I personally am surrounded by people who repeat and apply bogus ideas given to them via commercial outlets and ideology, and would be interested.

[Murray]

Ramin wrote

If you are interested, we should attempt to test the theory in real life. I personally am surrounded by people who repeat and apply bogus ideas given to them via commercial outlets and ideology, and would be interested.

 

Yes I'm interested to test the theory.

[Daecon]

I've not read that book, what's a Meme?

[Murray]

I've given the book a second read and something doesnt sit right with me, please dont think that I'm putting myself in any sort of league as all you intelligent people...

 

"We are built as gene machines and cultured as meme machines, but we

have the power to turn against our creators. We, alone on earth, can

rebel against the tyranny of the selfish replicators." (Dawkins [15],

p 215)

 

isnt this a huge assumption that there is "someone" beyond the constructs of memes etc that COULD do the overthrowing?

 

Murray-young and learning

[Halucigenia]

Murray,

The "selfish replicators" and "creators" of which Dawkins writes are the genes and the memes themselves. In his view our bodies are just a vessel created by genes so that they can replicate themselves. What's that quote, something about a Rhino being an extraordinary long way around just for genes to replicate themselves?

 

I agree with you that it should not be assumed that there is "someone" beyond the constructs of the genes and memes. I would say, though, that we are the constructions of genes. However, I would add the point that genes, as information, not as molecules in DNA, as Dawkins I think explains, can be thought of as having an existence separate from the individual's body.

 

We alone on earth can manipulate genes and memes to achieve our own goals, rather than accept the blind outcome of natural selection that genes and memes follow. I think this is what he is getting at.

 

I think that Dawkins himself thinks that religion is a prime example of a meme. I am sure I found a great link to one of Dawkins' writings on this subject on this very forum recently - try the selfish gene theory topic at the top of the page.