timeline

[ydoaPs]

i was reading a thread about free will and got an idea:

... in classical physics, if you know the exact state of everything at one time, then you can predict the exact state of everything at any other time. in qm, there is a general fuzziness, an uncertainty. nothing has a definite value, but on larger scales it is unnoticable. that would seem to indicate that the world is BOTH deterministic and probabilistic... possible implication for time travel: bare bones timeline. some events WILL happen, but the details are uncertain until the events in question have ocurred.

 

i think it may be a valid idea. there could be a set line of events that WILL happen no matter what. the circumstances of said events are probabilistic. perhaps if in the future a powerful enough computer exists and we could collect enough information, we could concievably predict any event, past or future. we colud possibly even use it to solve unsolved crimes.

[BenSon]

I don't buy into determinism.

Think of it this way the computer can't accurately predict when a certain radioactive nucleus will decay But can assign a probability. Now maybe so what if the comp can't predict the breakdown of a nucleus. Well what if someone walks by this nucleus it decays he gets cancer and dies and what if he walks by and it dosn't decay he lives goeson to become the next hitler and the world is changed beyond belief? If the computer can't determine one thing only one accurately then it can't predict everything thus no determined or "Clockwork universe".

 

~Scott

[ydoaPs]

learn to read. i said that it is BOTH deterministic and nondeterministic.

[BenSon]

we could concievably predict any event, past or future

 

Yes i understand what you were saying and I wait for it, it'll shock ya, I disagree. I think the world is totally nondeterministic did you not read my post.

Jeez just because someone dosn't agree with you you shouldn't act like your totally above them and come off as a jackass.

 

~Scott

[ydoaPs]

giving one example of probability doesn't negate determanism. what about chemical reactions, laws of motion, ect.

[[Tycho?]]

I don't buy into determinism.

Think of it this way the computer can't accurately predict when a certain radioactive nucleus will decay But can assign a probability. Now maybe so what if the comp can't predict the breakdown of a nucleus. Well what if someone walks by this nucleus it decays he gets cancer and dies and what if he walks by and it dosn't decay he lives goeson to become the next hitler and the world is changed beyond belief? If the computer can't determine one thing only one accurately then it can't predict everything thus no determined or "Clockwork universe".

 

~Scott

 

If the computer cannot determine the breakdown it may be because we dont know enough about it to predict it.

[BenSon]

True, but untill we can, i'll have to go with the nondeterministic view thats just me

 

~Scott

[AzurePhoenix]

Once again, I shall stand behind the words of the great Master Yoda "Always in motion, the future is" and as Ian Malcolm so eloquently put it "There's, another example. See, here I'm now by myself, uh, er, talking to myself. That's, that's chaos theory."

[BenSon]

Ok so the furure is in motion, but the question is can we find out which way its going

 

~Scott

[AzurePhoenix]

That's the essence of the quote. You can't accurately predict it because, according to chaos, minute interactions between objects as well as particles can cause huge changes in single events, and single events can change history in unimaginable ways. I'm not saying you can't predict a possible future, but that's all it is, a single possible future among an ocean of infinite other possibilities. Example - How might history have changed if Ben Franklin or Abe Lincoln had caught polio or something when they were babies? Or if young Einstein fell out of a tree and broke his neck?

[BenSon]

Hey i agree with you millions of different futures can be predicted but none can be certain only assigned with probabilities, no clockwork for me. I find security in the fact the future can't be determined (at least scientificly) I spose it should be the other way around shouldn't it but that would be kind of boring huh...

 

~Scott