ADHD & Marijuana

[reverse]

Yes thanks.

very kind of you to ask.

 

Do you not see the connection between your question and my reply?

 

(PS: for some strange reason your picture is reminding me of this one.

 

http://www.allaboutturkey.com/mehmet2.htm

[Sayonara]

People who become dependent to pot, I'll guarantee it that they've been shunned in some way.

It has been my observation that (in general) people who are dependent on pot are more actively antisocial and insular than the average person. The only people they seem to be genuinely interested in socialising with are people with whom they might exchange pot.

 

That seems like the opposite of being shunned to me.

[reverse]

that's exactly correct.

 

but I think Ramin is an exception.

 

His logon name is from a particular part of the world where there is an integration between culture religion and that particular plant.

[klanger]

Inclined to disagree somewhat to that Sayonara³ .

 

You have your recreational users who do often seek out like minded individuals not so much to share pot as to share time with those who wont look down on them for using it, and wont report them to the police for using it. People don't think twice if you go out and have a few pints down the pub, and most would have no problem joining another drinker even if they themselves don't drink. Its not quite that acceptable for the recreational smoker, simply because of the legalities and penalties associated with its use.

 

For those that use it as a medication, the whole point of using it is that they CAN have some kind of quality of life, be it to get them out of pain, stop them feeling violently sick. Until they can eleviate those sorts of symptoms they are basically recluses with no external circle of friends. For them this is not a recreational "lets get happy" drug, many of them would gladly stop using cannabis if they could also be rid of the things that ail them.

 

My husband has struggled with IBS since 1991, has been put through a real cocktail of drugs that the doctors outrightly admit wont help but "might" eleviate some of the symptoms, drugs who's side effects can be horrific and most definately life threatening.

 

When he moved to Oregon in the USA and as part of going to the pain clinics there, he met and made friends with a man who had aids, this was in 1999. This chap told him about cannabis and how it really helps him with the nausea that he feels daily as a result of his aids.

 

So my husband tried it for himself. Fairly shortly after that he got onto the medical marijuana programme where he could legally get cannabis for medical use, by the way the pain my husband goes through the doctors have said is as severe as a cancer patient who is on morphine, however, for my husband he will have a lot longer to live than most of these cancer patients so cant have morphine because it is sooo adictive.

 

He cant stand the taste or the smell but it works for him and allows him to have a halfway decent quality of life. Sure he gets panic attacks at the thought of leaving the house, but I dont think there is a IBS sufferer out there that wont say "DAMN RIGHT! thats my worse nightmare too", you see they never know quite how it will work, lots of pain and then wind, lots of pain and then constipation, lots of pain and then diahorrea.

 

My husband loves company and yet dreads leaving the house (toilet) not because of the cannabis he uses but because of how dibilitating his illness is to him, he loves food but rarely enjoys it because he knows it will always end the same way, within minutes he will be writhing in agony. It is no way to live, and on the rare occassion that he has a pain free day? WOW you could honestly be forgiven for thinking he had just won the lottery.

 

I can only hope that at some point in the future all the governments around the world will finally see this drug for its true value, and legalise it, even if its just on a prescription basis. Then at least people like my husband won't be sneaking around feeling that they are doing something criminally wrong, just because they spend their lives in pain and have found a cure that in other peoples eyes is loathsome.

[klanger]

The next time any of you have a tummy upset caused through bad food or a bug of some sort and you are laying in your beds feeling very sorry for yourselves, flitting between cold sweats vomiting diahorrea and intense stomache pains, try imagining living the rest of your lives like that. With just the odd glimmer of normalicy once in a blue moon, no drugs work, they might eleviate one of the symptoms but make another worse and then you found that using cannabis actually removed all those symptoms for a few hours, would you use it?

[reverse]

Oh yea!, you betcha.

 

Hypothetically of course, because it’s not legal.

[klanger]

Yes it is illegal. That doesn't stop those people who live with intense pain on a daily basis from using it. My question wasnt would you use it (providing it is legal) it was a as it stands now question, with all the negativity you have heard with regard to "potheads". Would you use it?

[Sayonara]

Inclined to disagree somewhat to that Sayonara³ .

You disagree that that is what I have observed?

[ramin]

It has been my observation that (in general) people who are dependent on pot are more actively antisocial and insular than the average person. The only people they seem to be genuinely interested in socialising with are people with whom they might exchange pot.

 

 

yeah because everyone else seems not to be enjoyable to be around when high' date=' like they have a problem of some kind. Well it's only natural to fear what we don't understand I guess. Like a drunk but not.[/quote']

 

 

Bravo!

[ramin]

that's exactly correct.

 

but I think Ramin is an exception.

 

His logon name is from a particular part of the world where there is an integration between culture religion and that particular plant.

 

They hardly have marijuana from where my name comes from (West Asia). They have hashish.

[ramin]

It has been my observation that (in general) people who are dependent on pot are more actively antisocial and insular than the average person. The only people they seem to be genuinely interested in socialising with are people with whom they might exchange pot.

 

That seems like the opposite of being shunned to me.

 

 

Well, your analysis (if serious) is confounded by, the fact being shunned would cause social withdrawal. So it supports the idea of stigma.

 

In other words, you're in the chicken-egg mode. Its clear to me, however, which came first.

[Sayonara]

It's not an analysis. As I said, it's merely my observation.

 

Having said that, the observations have been consistent between all people I have ever known who regularly smoke cannabis for recreation. They all have self-serving tendencies - and little interest in the needs or feelings of others - when compared to non-users.

[klanger]

It has been my observation that (in general) people who are dependent on pot are more actively antisocial and insular than the average person. The only people they seem to be genuinely interested in socialising with are people with whom they might exchange pot.

 

That seems like the opposite of being shunned to me.

 

You disagree that that is what I have observed?

 

Antisocial withdrawn from or actively hostile to others or social institutions

 

Insular of or relating to an island' date=' narrow-minded: 'absurdly [i']insular[/i] prejudices'

 

Ok lets agree with you for one second and that after all these are your 'general' obsevations. What is it that makes them seek out their own kind? Remember cause and effect, the cause is the stigma that is put on these people, the effect is that they feel more comfortable with like minded company. I believe it is as a direct result of being 'shunned' that they then seek out their own kind. Why are they shunned? Because 1) smoking is now considered antisocial, 2) smoking cannabis is illegal.

 

I dont disagree that you have noticed this, I disagree with your reasoning for this.

 

Personally all the people I know that do this aren't antisocial, they work and work well at their jobs, they mix with their work mates go for a drink play squash. I have never seen someone that 'uses' get angry, on the whole they are very peaceful, laid back people. Every now and then on the occassional friday/saturday night they go over to a mates house and get totally blasted, I don't see that as any different to you or I going out to the pub and getting totally wrecked.

 

I am a smoker, (normal fags) yet it is getting increasingly more difficult for me to go to a pub and have a drink and a smoke, so I dont go out so much now, if the laws were to ever change with regard to cannabis, I still dont think you would see them out and about, simply because it is getting more and more difficult to smoke anywhere but your own home.

[Sayonara]

Ok lets agree with you for one second and that after all these are your 'general' obsevations. What is it that makes them seek out their own kind? Remember cause and effect' date=' the cause is the stigma that is put on these people, the effect is that they feel more comfortable with like minded company. I believe it is as a direct result of being 'shunned' that they then seek out their own kind. Why are they shunned? Because 1) smoking is now considered antisocial, 2) smoking cannabis is illegal.

 

I dont disagree that you have noticed this, I disagree with your reasoning for this.[/quote']

While I admire your eagerness to give words away, I don't believe I have posted any reasoning, and would appreciate being asked before having random opinions attributed to me.

[klanger]

It has been my observation that (in general) people who are dependent on pot are more actively antisocial and insular than the average person. The only people they seem to be genuinely interested in socialising with are people with whom they might exchange pot.

 

That seems like the opposite of being shunned to me.

 

Ok I accept that you cant see that your post was your reason (from your observation)that people may feel shunned. You didnt use the word reason so I guess that's probably why.

 

So I shall re-word it then, I dont disagree with your observation that cannabis smokers do indeed seek out there own kind, I disagree with your

That seems like the opposite of being shunned to me

quote

[ramin]

It's not an analysis. As I said' date=' it's merely my observation.

 

Having said that, the observations have been consistent between all people I have ever known who regularly smoke cannabis for recreation. They all have self-serving tendencies - and little interest in the needs or feelings of others - when compared to non-users.[/quote']

 

 

Odd observation. Are you sure its not a "confirmation bias" or "self-fulfilling prophecy"?

 

Its been my observation that people who smoke marijuana are the smartest and most morally considerate people in comparison to non-smokers.

[Sayonara]

Ok I accept that you cant see that your post was your reason (from your observation)that people may feel shunned. You didnt use the word reason so I guess that's probably why.

No, it's not "my reason". It's an observation - that's all. No causal route was specified.

You already put your words in my mouth; don't compound the mistake by misrepresenting my own words.

 

 

So I shall re-word it then, I dont disagree with your observation that cannabis smokers do indeed seek out there own kind, I disagree with your quote

Here's an idea: don't "reword it". It's fine the way it is, and communicates precisely what I wanted it to communicate, thanks very much.

 

 

Odd observation. Are you sure its not a "confirmation bias" or "self-fulfilling prophecy"?

One would think the answer is in the question there, seeing as an observation on its own cannot have those attributes.

 

 

Its been my observation that people who smoke marijuana are the smartest and most morally considerate people in comparison to non-smokers.

The difference between this observation and mine is that you are drawing two pan-population generalisations, and I drew none.

 

I would go as far as to suggest that the idea that any given marijuana smoker can be considered smarter or more morally considerate than any given non-smoker is not sustainable based on any of your personal observations.

[klanger]

i do appologise sayonara i thought this was a forum that we could all join in on. I hadnt realised that your opinion was gospel and couldnt be questioned

[Sayonara]

i do appologise sayonara i thought this was a forum that we could all join in on. I hadnt realised that your opinion was gospel and couldnt be questioned

You did not respond to an opinion. You responded to an observation, and when corrected you followed up with a strawman.

 

Additionally, you are still continuing to misrepresent what I have said, since you seem to be making the claim that I have somehow dismissed or contradicted your views, which is not the slighest bit honest.

 

I'm more than happy to read about your views on this, but any more tiresome, sarcastic strawman responses will be warned for trolling/flaming and persistant strawman.

[klanger]

So what is your opinion based on your observations all beit negative ones in and around your home town, and your observations of what has been posted in here, where I have tried to show you all a different side to smoking cannabis?

 

I didnt say your origional observation was wrong, or that you hadn't observed those things going on around you. The part I disagreed with was the last part of that origonal post. where you said

That seems like the opposite of being shunned to me.

 

This part of your post was not part of your observation, but rather a stated opinion derived from your observation. This part of your post is the part that was in question and that I wanted to address.

 

So I shall re-word it then, I dont disagree with your observation that cannabis smokers do indeed seek out there own kind, I disagree with your quote

That seems like the opposite of being shunned to me.

 

Here's an idea: don't "reword it". It's fine the way it is, and communicates precisely what I wanted it to communicate, thanks very much.

 

The only thing I was re-wording was my own comments not yours, I had kept the whole of your post within my own simply so that you could see what part of the thread I had got this information from. Rather than segregating little snippets of information and losing the thread of the conversation.

[reverse]

Hi Guys,

 

Good scrap!

 

Sorry for the delay, been playing with AI’s.

 

About your question, re pain relief,

I have had severe food poisoning-

so bad that I couldn’t move,

and I can categorically assure you, from actual experience)

I’m taking whatever is going to make that pain go away, legal or not.

 

As for the core issue here:

ADD, and the plant.

 

I have done some interviews with users.

None of them think it will assist with ADD.

The consensus is, that it enhances experience but does little to help attention.

The term “thoughts chase their own tail” came up.

 

Ps Ramin.

I just instinctively guessed that your picture logon and topic all intersected with the holy book of the Zoroastrians.. the book of potions I think it’s called.

My bad.

[Sayonara]

So what is your opinion based on your observations

Irrelevant. The observations were added to the thread to give Ramin the benefit of a different view - I'm sure he can draw his own conclusions. I'm not going to ram my own down his throat, am I?

 

 

all beit negative ones in and around your home town,

I never once stated anything about the location. There isn't even a place I would call my "home town", I've moved around so much. Please stop making up completely random conditions.

 

 

and your observations of what has been posted in here, where I have tried to show you all a different side to smoking cannabis?

I don't really need you to "show me a different side", thanks - I am not an idiot. Furthermore I quite clearly said "in general", and used quantifiers such as "more" and "average" to indicate non-absolute terms. You are the one who isn't getting that.

 

 

I didnt say your origional observation was wrong, or that you hadn't observed those things going on around you. The part I disagreed with was the last part of that origonal post. where you said

...

This part of your post was not part of your observation, but rather a stated opinion derived from your observation. This part of your post is the part that was in question and that I wanted to address.

Well, I disagree. I think that it was a statement of fact and not opinion - the behaviour I was describing is consistent with a state of turning away from, not a state of being turned away from. I couldn't give a flying Jesus about behaviour I was not describing being addressed, and if you can't take the intentions of a post from the author himself then who can you take them from?

 

 

The only thing I was re-wording was my own comments not yours, I had kept the whole of your post within my own simply so that you could see what part of the thread I had got this information from. Rather than segregating little snippets of information and losing the thread of the conversation.

Sorry, but that's just tripe. You went in for the kill because you made critical assumptions about my post, and saw the opportunity to "teach" me something. As I have made abundantly clear, you are trying to have an argument that I'm not interested in.

[klanger]

whatever, you have clearly made your mind up that what I did was bad wrong whatever.

 

In answer to your origional question

 

You disagree that that is what I have observed?

 

No I dont disagree with what you observed which is why in my post about it, it went like this

 

Inclined to disagree somewhat to that Sayonara³ .

 

You have your recreational users who do often seek out like minded individuals

 

Dont bother ranting and raving at me cos I wont be back. You accused me of strawman tactics and trolling, when in fact it was you who were trolling with your question when any fool can see that I wasnt saying your observation was wrong at all. I have seen you do this to other people too, just daring them to get into some word game with you so that you can strut your stuff and feel big.

[Sayonara]

whatever, you have clearly made your mind up that what I did was bad wrong whatever.

It's not really a matter of what I have decided, but of the things you said, for which I am not responsible.

 

 

Dont bother ranting and raving at me cos I wont be back. You accused me of strawman tactics and trolling, when in fact it was you who were trolling with your question when any fool can see that I wasnt saying your observation was wrong at all. I have seen you do this to other people too, just daring them to get into some word game with you so that you can strut your stuff and feel big.

Still making critical assumptions and misrepresenting what people have said. Maybe you just can't help it.

 

There's nothing I like better than strutting my stuff and feeling big though, you got that right. That's all I'm here for you know. Administering a science forum is like so cool. Every time I have an argument with someone, all the guys say "god I wish I could be like him", and all the girls feel faint.

[ramin]

Ps Ramin.

I just instinctively guessed that your picture logon and topic all intersected with the holy book of the Zoroastrians.. the book of potions I think it’s called.

My bad.

 

Close! My avator is Persian, but not Zoroastrian. Furthermore, he is known as the best Persian Scientist (Abu-Ali Sina, or Avicenna, go look him up), though he may be one of the best, or the best, Persian doctor and philosopher. I believe he started the ethanol treatment.

So when I come here I come with a science orientation, but well aware of the flaws of science, especially with regard to my own specialty, Psychology.