Physics and the universe

[Hyper]

Who agrees that the universe is infinitely complex? Please answer in the form of yes I do or no I don't and thank you for your participation.

[Strange]

What do you mean by "infinitely complex"?

[Phi for All]

I can't imagine what utility a concept like "infinite complexity" could provide. It sounds like a creationist ploy to trap science semantically.

[Hyper]

What do you mean by "infinitely complex"?

Meaning the universe is very complex in this case infinitely complex.

[studiot]

 

Posted Today, 07:59 PM

I can't imagine what utility a concept like "infinite complexity" could provide. It sounds like a creationist ploy to trap science semantically.

 

Well we should be well protected since all our mods are now godesses.

 

Edited April 3, 2016 by studiot

[Hyper]

The best and awesome thing about this concept is that every theory we ever came up with is true meaning there is an infinite possibility that all the theory good or bad are true.

[Mordred]

Roflmao

[Phi for All]

Science isn't about "truth", it's about finding the best explanations for various phenomena based on observations that match reality. We don't know if the universe is infinite or not, so I would answer NO to your question. Truth is too subjective for science, since it seems to mean different things to every person.

 

Besides, infinite complexity tells us nothing, other than you aren't going to bother explaining something so incredibly complex. And why would we want a bad theory to be "true"?

 

Are you saying that because you believe in this infinite complexity, eventually all things will become "true"?

[Strange]

Meaning the universe is very complex in this case infinitely complex.

 

Saying the same thin doesn't really help me understand what you mean. How are you defining complex? How do you measure that? And can that measure become infinite?

The best and awesome thing about this concept is that every theory we ever came up with is true meaning there is an infinite possibility that all the theory good or bad are true.

 

I am fairly sure the phlogiston theory is not true.

 

And, although Newtonian gravity works under most situations, it is definitely not true.

 

But how does any of that relate to complexity, infinite or otherwise?

[Hyper]

Look people it's just a concept I didn't came up a theory or something like that. I am just saying if the universe is infinitely complex it would mean every theory we ever came up with would be right.

 

And also infinite is not a number you can't measure it that the whole point of infinite and the symbol. You people need to learn to have an open mind. It always about measuring with you guys.

[Mordred]

Measuring is of primary importance in science.

[Hyper]

Measuring is of primary importance in science.

Apparently their are somethings that people just can't measure. "the great example infinite or pi or etc"

[swansont]

I am just saying if the universe is infinitely complex it would mean every theory we ever came up with would be right.

 

 

Without defining what it means to be infinitely complex then the statement is meaningless. Just repeating it is not a definition.

———

 

If you mean infinitely complex in the sense of the multiverse — that there are an infinite number of universes, each different, then you still aren't right. You can have an infinite number of theories that don't work. An infinite number of parallel universes have to have the common attribute that the multiverse theory is valid in each of them. So the theory that there is no multiverse would be wrong. QED.

 

Infinity is a tricky concept. There are an infinite number if numbers between 0 and 1. If you're in a situation where the answer you need is outside that range, the availability of the infinite number of possibilities isn't going to help you.

[Mordred]

Apparently their are somethings that people just can't measure. "the great example infinite or pi or etc"

Sure we may not be able to measure every single aspect or the exact value of pi.

 

Just like we can't predict the precise motion of every particle.

 

However we can make reasonable approximations. For example averaging.

[Hyper]

 

 

Without defining what it means to be infinitely complex then the statement is meaningless. Just repeating it is not a definition.

 

 

 

If you mean infinitely complex in the sense of the multiverse that there are an infinite number of universes, each different, then you still aren't right. You can have an infinite number of theories that don't work. An infinite number of parallel universes have to have the common attribute that the multiverse theory is valid in each of them. So the theory that there is no multiverse would be wrong. QED.

 

Infinity is a tricky concept. There are an infinite number if numbers between 0 and 1. If you're in a situation where the answer you need is outside that range, the availability of the infinite number of possibilities isn't going to help you.

I wasn't talking about the multiverse. I was just talking about one universe our universe and I was talking about the complexity of the making of our universe.

 

And also their is an infinite between 0 and 1.

[Strange]

I wasn't talking about the multiverse. I was just talking about one universe our universe and I was talking about the complexity of the making of our universe.

 

Then you will have to define what you mean by "complexity".

 

And if you think that "all theories can be true" then you think that contradictory theories can be true. Which is, well, an insane idea.

Apparently their are somethings that people just can't measure. "the great example infinite or pi or etc"

 

But these things can be exactly defined. (Unlike your "complexity" which is still undefined.)

[Hyper]

 

Then you will have to define what you mean by "complexity".

 

 

 

And if you think that "all theories can be true" then you think that contradictory theories can be true. Which is, well, an insane idea.

 

 

But these things can be exactly defined. (Unlike your "complexity" which is still undefined.)

So you want me to define complexity huh. OK then listen and learn.

 

All you have to do is using a paper, pen and your mind is to calculate this 157.0796327÷50 or just keep writing any number 0 to 9 randomly forever and you find you answer to complexity.

 

 

And when I mentioned all theories I ment the theories that tries to explain the universe thank you for coming to hyper lesson class dismissed.

[pzkpfw]

An infinite Universe would still be "made" of whatever finite kinds stuff it's made of. This is why some folk think that in an infinite Universe, there'd be "copies" of you, but perhaps with slight differences - because in that infinite Universe every possible combination of "things" must exist.

 

But it's important to note that "possible".

 

Take the digits of Pi. It seems possible that any finite combination of digits will be found in it somewhere. e.g. the digit sequence 1234567 would probably be found in the digits of Pi.

 

But ... your use of "infinite" is like saying if you look long enough in the digits of Pi an edible Apple will appear on your paper.

 

 

(Edit: fun http://www.dr-mikes-math-games-for-kids.com/your-name-in-pi.html )

 

(Edit2: it does occur that if we assign digits to the bases of DNA, we could possibly find the genome sequence of an apple, in the digits of Pi.)

Edited April 4, 2016 by pzkpfw

[MigL]

At first I thought he was asking if the universe is too complex for us to ever completely understand it.

And that would be a valid question.

But we already have a thread on that subject

[Thorham]

Who agrees that the universe is infinitely complex? Please answer in the form of yes I do or no I don't and thank you for your participation.

 

How could we possibly know whether or not it's infinitely complex?

It's not "infinitely complex" because there is no such thing as "infinity" in the real world.

 

Proof?

[Strange]

All you have to do is using a paper, pen and your mind is to calculate this 157.0796327÷50 or just keep writing any number 0 to 9 randomly forever and you find you answer to complexity.

 

So these are not complex in any sense of the word I am familiar with. You have described a simple calculation and an algorithm which runs in linear time. I though you might at least suggest an algorithm in NP.

 

So I fail to see how the decimal expansion of some numbers having an infinite number of digits, or that you can describe an infinite sequence of random digits, means that "all theories are true". There seems to be a logical leap here.

[ajb]

The Universe is a complex system... I am not sure if there is a totally satisfactory definition of a complex system, but by the common definitions the Universe is such a system.

 

We also have measures of complexity. Measures tend to be refinements of either Kolmogorov complexity or Shannon entropy. The first one comes from looking at the shortest possible computer codes to create some pattern of interest. The second comes from applying ideas in thermodynamics and statistical physics to information.

 

It is now a case of deciding what measure(s) best suits cosmology in the whole and if this measure is infinite. I suspect this is far from an easy question. And it is outside of my area of expertise for sure.

 

Without some meaning to the opening question it is impossible to even begin to answer (if one can answer this question if itself another question!)

[Hyper]

Guys I am not saying in real world it just a tricky concept it's not for real. I am just saying all the theories that we ever made on the making of the universe might be true if the complexity of the making of the universe is infinite.

[studiot]

Whilst you deserve acknowledgment for adding the important word 'might', you still have not explained what you mean by complexity.

This is important because infinite is an adjective that has at least a couple of meanings, but it has to have something understood to be applied to.

 

So what is your explanation of complexity and what about this explanation can the word infinite be correctly applied to?

[imatfaal]

So you want me to define complexity huh. OK then listen and learn.

 

All you have to do is using a paper, pen and your mind is to calculate this 157.0796327÷50 or just keep writing any number 0 to 9 randomly forever and you find you answer to complexity.

 

 

And when I mentioned all theories I ment the theories that tries to explain the universe thank you for coming to hyper lesson class dismissed.

 

That maths problem can be done in your head - no problem whatsoever and definitely no complex. Division by 50 is the same as multiplication by 2 and the move the decimal place 2 to the left.

 

Maybe we have different notions of complexity - also possible is that if you learnt some of the techniques of mathematics and science what seems complex and daunting would suddenly become simple and mechanical